Seeking Center: The Podcast

The Ancient Secret Destiny Codes Hidden in a Deck of Cards (Robert Lee Camp) - Episode 236

• Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Robert Lee Camp • Season 2 • Episode 236

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What if your birthday held the blueprint to your personality, your greatest gifts, your challenges, your relationships—and even your destiny? Not as a vague horoscope, but as part of an ancient system hidden in plain sight for centuries inside a standard deck of playing cards.

This week, we're joined by Robert Lee Camp, creator of Cards of Your Destiny, renowned teacher and one of the world's leading experts on the ancient science of the cards. Robert has spent decades decoding a system that connects every birth date to a specific playing card, revealing profound insights into who we are, why we're here, and the lessons we're meant to learn.

But what makes this conversation even more fascinating is Robert's own journey. From rock-and-roll musician and spiritual seeker to discovering a mysterious book that changed the course of his life, Robert's path is a reminder that sometimes our purpose finds us when we're finally ready to listen.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE

  • How a standard deck of playing cards became one of the world's oldest systems of self-discovery
  • The surprising connection between the cards, astrology, karma, and destiny
  • What your Birth Card reveals about your strengths, challenges, relationships, and life purpose
  • Why Robert believes the cards contain information that even astrology doesn't fully capture
  • The mind-blowing mathematical connections hidden within a deck of cards
  • The mysterious history of the cards and their possible origins
  • How understanding your cards can lead to greater self-acceptance, self-love, and personal growth
  • What Robyn and Karen discovered about their own cards—and what the system reveals about their partnership
  • Destiny vs. free will — Robert's candid take after decades of working with this system

If you've ever wondered whether there is a deeper pattern connecting the events of your life, this conversation may completely change the way you look at your birthday—and yourself.

MORE FROM ROBERT LEE CAMP

Visit seekingcentercommunity.com for more with Robyn + Karen and many of the guides on Seeking Center: The Podcast. You'll get access to live weekly sessions, intuitive guidance, daily inspiration, and a space to share your journey with like-minded people who just get it.

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Robyn: I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com. What if your birthday holds the key to understanding everything about yourself, your gifts, your challenges, your relationships, and even your destiny? Not as a vague horoscope, but as a precise ancient system that's been quietly hidden in a standard [00:01:00] deck of playing cards for centuries.

Today, we're talking to Robert Lee Camp, the creator of Cards of Your Destiny, and the man who cracked the code open for the modern world. What makes this even more fascinating is his journey to discovering, studying, and evolving this ancient system into something that's now helping people all over the world understand themselves on a much deeper level.

Because that's really what we're all about here, connecting the dots between who you are, why you're here, and how to actually live in alignment with that. So today we're diving into the history of the cards, how they connect to astrology, what they reveal about you, and yes, we're going to look at our own cards and what they say about our partnership.

And by the end of this, you might just start looking at your birthday and your life a little differently. Let's dive in. hi Robert. Hi Karen. 

Karen: Hi 

Robert: Robert. Nice to see you. Nice to be here. Nice to see you both. Thank you. 

Karen: Oh, Robert, , one of the things that Robyn and I were talking about before this was how we think with every podcast that we do, [00:02:00] we raise people's awareness of practices out there that they might not have been aware of.

This one was one that blew our minds because it's a practice based on something that I think almost everybody has in their living room drawer somewhere. Cards. It just so surprised us that there was this ancient modality, like, right under our noses that we had interact with unknowingly.

So we can't wait to share all of this with, everybody who's listening. But before we go there, take us back before the cards in your life, before the book you wrote, and tell us a little bit about you and what got you on this path. 

Robert: people ask me this a lot, I think because they kind of wanna know about their own life.

Like, how do they relate to that whole process of finding what you're meant to do in this lifetime, had been searching for years. I knew there was something. I didn't know what it was. I was kind of praying. I worked in a, commercial kitchen. I worked construction, and I [00:03:00] was good at all these things, but I knew I hadn't found the thing, whatever it was gonna be, so I was living in a yoga ashram, and It changed my whole life actually, ' cause before that I was a rock and roll guitar player and, you know, I was doing the whole drugs, alcohol, rock and roll music scene, and I was so unhappy.

I was so miserable. I was praying for help, And I took LSD at 19 and had this awakening and that got me interested in yoga, ' cause I read Ram Dass' Be Here Now book, and I thought I needed a guru to find, the knowledge I wanted.

And eventually I ended up moving into this ashram, called Kripalu, and I was there for 10 years. And during my stay there Somebody mentioned that one of the ladies there was doing astrology readings, and I thought- Whoa. I had never heard of that before, I was only in my 20s, you know? But it just fascinated me so much, and I never actually got a reading with it, but I [00:04:00] went right down to the bookstore and bought myself an astrology book, and I just loved it. And I was also doing palmistry I was looking for something, so I got this astrology book, and I was asking all my friends, "Okay, what's your birthday?" I look up was about the north and south nodes, you know? Yes. And I would read to them, " you know, it was just a hobby. I was working in the construction department at the time and so forth. I discovered later that I have a good luck with books, and I have Jupiter in the sign of Gemini. When you have Jupiter in Gemini, you just attract good books, I found this book called Astrology Plus. And this book just opened my eyes to astrology in a big way, and all of a sudden, I had something that I felt was really valuable to share with people.

 The next was somebody knew that I was doing astrology and said, "Hey, you should check out this book," which was called Sacred Symbols of the Ancients.

 And she goes, "Just look up your card and read about it and tell me what you think," so I looked it up, and turns out I'm a queen of diamonds, and I read the chapter on the queen of diamonds Wait, 

Robyn: so this book, 

Sacred [00:05:00] Symbol of the Ancients- Yeah ... actually introduced you to this idea of- 

cards? 

Robert: Yeah. I had never heard of the card system before that. I was put off by it because it was so to the point and so honest, but I realized later, a week later, I was like, "Everything they said was true in there." And I started, again, looking up all my friends and everybody.

 and then I wanted more. but there were no other books. We didn't have internet back then, by the way, so you had to- Hmm ... just go to the bookstore and take your best shot. But there was no books on this system anywhere.

So I just kinda put it aside, and My wife and I at the time, we moved to LA, and within a week of us being there, one of her clients came into our apartment, and saw that I had the Sacred Symbols book on my bookshelf.

 And she said, "Oh, you have that book? There's a guy in town that wrote his own book about that, and he's teaching a class. It starts like in two days." I'm like, "What?" I was ready to go. [00:06:00] And I joined that class, His name was Arne Lean, and he had wrote the book called What's Your Card? . I had no idea there was a prediction aspect of the system. 'Cause in, in Sacred Symbols, it just told about your birthday and your karma overall for your whole life. But Arne Lean introduced me to these yearly spreads of cards that told what was happening every month of your life, basically.

So in that first class, we got to the point where I was figuring out what card I had right now, and I read the interpretation of it, and it described something that had just happened to me the day before. It blew my mind. I wasn't ready to fully accept it, But it definitely was a big first impression, I was like, "I gotta check this out and just see, is this real? ' 

I kept studying it, and I started to incorporate it in my readings and it was a really helpful addition to my readings. 

To your astrology 

Robyn: reading? It was a 

Robert: to astrology reading? Yeah, to my astrology readings.

Karen: Well, for, for, for people who are listening and, and maybe don't know how the cards actually work, can you just give a really high level of how they work?

Robert: [00:07:00] Yeah, every birthday of the year is associated with one main card, which is called the birth card, and it's done by a mathematical formula. It's not random. It's not made up by somebody. It's there's actually math behind it.

 And that card is the strongest symbol of our lifetime karma. It's like, the natal chart in your astrology. It has in it much- of your karma the good and the bad of the karma you experienced in this lifetime. And then out of that birth card comes a life spread of cards, which goes into all different categories, almost like the houses of the zodiac.

So you got a card in Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, and other ones too. You have karma cards and things, and these all combine together to give you, like, an overall picture of your lifetime karma, both good and bad. Everybody's got good karma. Everybody's got some bad karma. . So you know, sometimes just reading about yourself in my Love Cards book and reading the description kinda gives you like a, an [00:08:00] unbiased look at yourself that you can accept yourself more.

It brings, the possibility of self-love, of self-acceptance. So that's why I love it so much. 

Robyn: What's so interesting is that Cards Of Your Destiny came into my life actually four years ago.

And so I've had Robert's book, and it's a thick book that really- 

Robert: Well, yeah, there's, like, almost 300 pages. there's two books, and, we keep reprinting them. Every time we reprint them they go, "Can you add something new to the book?" And they're getting kinda big, 

Robyn: they really can help you map your life, where you are and where you're going. And I think to your point, there is so much math involved 

Karen: And it adds another layer, doesn't it? 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Robert: well, if if you did the reading the way I learned it from my teacher, it's so complicated.

Robyn: It's really specific ... 

Robert: that's what encouraged me to write a computer program to do it, because,

 I had new programming, and I was not good at, I'm not really not good at real [00:09:00] detail stuff.

 Robyn, you're great at details. You're a double club, okay? So you know, you'll tear something all to pieces. You'll find every mistake. You'll find every little detail, and you look at it that way. But not me, I don't know if Karen even looks at it that way either in that detail and you know, clubs are like, they are the detail people of the whole deck. Wow ... their communication- Wow ... their knowledge, and their detail,

Karen: so Robert, if someone gets their astrology chart done and then they have their cards read, is it all the same information, or i- is it a layer deeper?

Or how do they, how does that 

Robert: interact? Well, they each offer a unique point of view. I'm sure there's gonna be much more that's discovered over the next generations to come, But as much as I know, and I feel like I do know a lot about astrology and a lot about the cards, there are some things the cards know that the astrology doesn't know.

 And it works both ways, Like, I can know the person's astrology and their cards will show me something, or I can know their cards and the astrology will show me something.

[00:10:00] So, I benefited from both. 

Robyn: Can we talk a little bit about the history of the cards? Yeah. Because I know when we've talked to you before- we find that very fascinating. , It's old. 

Karen: old. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Robert: Yeah. It 

Robyn: feels like a little holy grail. Like- Yeah ... you know? Yeah. 

Robert: Like- the first book that was ever published about the cards connection to this science, I, it, was published in 1894, and it was written by Olney Richmond, and it's called The Mystic Test Book.

 And this guy was the checker champion of the world- Like three or four years in a row. Now, that sound doesn't sound like a big deal, right? But if you've ever played checkers, you can lose on your very first move. . It's like that.

He was very smart, his profession was homeopathic apothecary. He would calculate the titrations of the different herbs and stuff to put in these homeopathic remedies, which back then homeopathy was bigger than the, the medicine we practice today. so anyway, he said in his first [00:11:00] book that every major civilization on earth claims to have invented the cards.

 And he says, what that tells you is that there was something before all of them that was actually the true origin of the cards, and he said that was Atlantis, which was over 20,000 years ago. That's what he said. He said they were given to the priests given, I guess, Well, how do we know you know, our history thing is not very accurate, Just even now, we keep making new discoveries that, completely blot out the last discovery that was made and rewrites history. So we don't really know, but that's what he said, and he was given all this information.

 He wasn't planning to do this in his life. he was in the Civil War, and he didn't think he was gonna live through the Civil War. ' And he was on guard duty one night, and a man came out of the shadows, the guy came up to him and said, "You know, you're going to, bring this card system back to the world, and you're going to survive this war, and you're going to be the Magi [00:12:00] in the order of the Magi. You're gonna be the main guy, And he's like, "I don't believe any of this." But the guy handed him a book, some book. He won't describe. He won't tell us what it was. but when he started reading that book, he got totally fascinated. He survived the Civil War. and then he was contacted once or twice more and given more knowledge.

And then he ended up opening a temple in, Grand Rapids, Michigan, and then later in Chicago, 

Robyn: Wow ... 

Robert: a temple of the Magi. There's three books that were published. , The Mystic Testament, and then two more, , one called Yin Lo and the Mystic Brotherhood, which is more about him and his life and his work with the Magi, and one called Temple Lectures, which was, , the translations of all these, , lectures he gave at the temple.

He would have, , a reporter would come to the temple And he would get the reporter's birthday prior to the coming to the temple. And the reporter would come in, and he would hand him a sealed envelope, and he would say, "Hold on to this. We're gonna do this experiment later on So at [00:13:00] the appropriate time, he would say, "Now I'm gonna hand you this deck of cards. I want you to shuffle them for exactly one minute." He had these instruction. He would shuffle them, cut them, then shuffle them. And he says, "Now, here's a zodiac cloth with 12 houses, and, - the sun in the center.

And I want you to just take the cards randomly and Make sure you have four cards in every , of the houses in the center." That's 13 times four, which is 52, the number of cards in a deck. Then he would have all of them face down, And he would say, "Now, at this exact moment, roll the dice.

And the number that comes up on those dice, I want you to turn over the cards in that house." And the number obviously is from two to 12, It's gonna be one of those numbers from two to 12. So not even one. You couldn't even... The first house would never be picked, 'cause there's no, no ace in that, the whole thing.

So anyway he would do that, and the guy would turn over the cards in that house. And then he would say, "Now open the envelope." And in the envelope it said, "If this such and such reporter [00:14:00] does this certain such Egyptian mystery number 55 at 8:10 PM, the cards he will draw out of the deck will be these cards."

Robyn: Stop it. What? 

Robert: Yeah. He had a formula that, connected directly physics really- Wow ... and, you know, he had all this stuff recorded and unfortunately when he died, we don't know what happened to all of his books. he had handwritten that nobody had copies of, wow. All we have is the Mystic Test book and his two other books about his life. So there's so many questions- 

we don't know exactly what happened.

There's gotta... 

Karen: we gotta do a movie on this, Rob. 

 

Robert: It is cool ... 

Robyn: I know when we've talked before, when we talk about the actual cards and the actual deck- 

there were revelations in that, that I know Karen and I talked about for days after.

Yeah. And you, now I look at a deck very differently than I did before. So can you- Yeah ... talk a little bit, 'cause I think- Yeah. Yeah, that- ... people don't realize it ... 

Robert: Yeah. Nobody [00:15:00] realizes that the deck of cards is so significant, and we, 'cause we just play poker with it and nothing more.

Robyn: Exactly. 

Robert: You know, crazy eights. Go Fish. Go Fish, yeah. 

Robyn: Right. 

Robert: Yeah. So okay, and this only applies to the common playing cards, not to any other tarot deck . So if you look at a deck of cards, you have 52 cards plus the joker, but you have these 52 cards- And there are 52 weeks in a year.

Interesting. You know, interesting coincidence. Right? Like, 

Robyn: what? Yeah. how have we not talked about that? 

Robert: That alone seems like, oh, maybe that's coincidental, But then you get a little deeper and you got, well, there's four suits and there's four seasons. Okay, okay. And there's 13 weeks in each season, and there's 13 cards in each suit.

And then there's also 13 full moons every year. There's 13 lunar cycles in a year. So there's just 13 cards in each suit, and there's 13 lunar cycles. Okay, that's interesting. And we look a little further you take the number value in every card in the deck, and this, this is the [00:16:00] biggest one, actually, is, like, you take the number value where aces are 1, jacks are 11, queens are 12, and kings are 13.

Add up an entire deck, and it equals 365. 

Robyn: I, like- 

Robert: You know ... 

Robyn: seriously. I- 

Robert: it actually comes to 364, but you add in the joker, which is, known to be, a value. There's a this thing called a solar value of the cards. It's known to be five-fourths, so it comes to 365 and a quarter. So they say the joker is five-fourths because it's the four suits plus himself.

you have it. Wow. No other card system has that. Every other card system is not based on the mathematical calculations of Earth's seasons and so forth.

Karen: Are the temples still around? 

Robert: No. , After he died, everything went into disarray., There was like, , the order got divided into two camps. , It's a long story.

Oh. It gets dramatic. There's been a lot of drama around card people in the past. Even now there's some drama, but, ... back then, [00:17:00] it's like everybody seems to wanna, grab it and make it their own 

they were, like, so secretive. And I'm like, "I'm gonna blow this out of the water. I'm gonna tell 

Robyn: everybody." Right. And that is what you've done. We've discussed that there are people who've interpreted things in different ways and to your point, have kept a lot of the way they've done it close to themselves.

Robert: Yeah, it's like, you discover a way to, to beat the stock market or , to win the lottery and you don't wanna- Yes ... tell anybody 'cause you don't want other people to... there was a greed aspect going on there- Yeah ... with people. And it was like a knowledge greed. They were, like, holding all this knowledge and I was surprised when I saw that, I think I was kind of Pollyanna about the whole thing, you know? I was like, just, "Let's do it. Let's get it done."

Robyn: Well, I think about, just the journey that you've shared with us so far, which is you were drawn to go to this- ashram and be in a collective. So there's this part of you that really wants to be, within the collective sharing what you know. And I would imagine that when you started doing those astrology readings, you were able to see the [00:18:00] impact on everyone that you were giving those readings to, and how- Yeah

it helped them, right? Yeah. So it's like 

Karen: can you add a little bit about that, ? How have you seen it help other people

Robert: Oh, I've had, I've had clients that told me they got more out of one session with me than with years of therapy.

 Wow. I had one woman who was a client, and she saw me a lot for a period of about four months. . She was a queen of hearts, and she was having all kinds of drama with her daughters. And she would type everything I said down as I was saying it. And then she went to her therapist, and she would bring these notes that she had typed up, And he goes " What is that you keep looking at there? You know, what is that?" And she said, "Oh, this is from my astrologer."

And the guy read it, and he was, like, blown away, wow. because I got it right to the core of what was going on, with using astrology and the cards. Wow. It was so powerful, and that's, the power of this system, which we actually teach in our training program.

It tells about the secrets of every card, like what [00:19:00] their inner motives are and their inner conflicts are that are causing their life to play out the way that it does.

And so, it's like that's the power that you can help a person get so in touch with themself that they can make a dramatic change . and they often do. I've had many clients who had life-changing experiences during the reading.

I could just feel the energy just shift, you know? You can feel, like- Yeah ... all of a sudden there's this huge epiphany, and there's, like, this freeing of all this energy that was blocked and I feel so blessed that I had this desire to find this knowledge, I appreciate it. I love it.

Robyn: Right. 

Robert: You know? Yeah. You know? I'm, I mean, you guys are doing what you love right now.

Robyn: Correct. 

Robert: so what led you to this? Did you know when you were a kid? No, you did not know probably. I didn't know. No. I had no idea. No. 

Robyn: I had no 

Robert: idea I'd write a book when I got older. I mean- 

Robyn: You can't explain it, right? Like, it is just- That's right ... there is a feeling. And- It's a, it's 

Karen: a calling that 

Robyn: you have.

It is. 

Robert: And the right things show up at the right [00:20:00] time that- Yes ... that, you know, that- That's right ... that open the door for you to walk in, and that's how karma works. It's, completely out of our control. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Karen: Well, Rob and I have said so often, and that's why we love what we do, is that there is so much information out there that we just aren't taught in school- Yeah

or by our parents necessarily. These are things that we can utilize to help unlock so much about ourselves- Yeah ... about our journey, about why we're here, that can help us along the way, like you said. 

Robert: Yeah. 

Karen: You know? You'll- I 

Robert: mean, I look at the cards as, like, a lifelong partner. Because, anytime- Yeah

I meet somebody new, like when I met you guys, I immediately- Yes ... looked up your birthdays. 

 I knew we would have a good connection from that, you understand? Like, if it was gonna be really bad, I might have bowed out of the whole thing, because I have.

Robyn: It's another really important tool, right? Mm-hmm. In our toolkit. 

Robert: Yeah. I mean, just knowing who your lifetime Saturn card is, for example, okay? This person is never gonna be happy with you. they're never gonna really give you [00:21:00] what you want. you're always gonna struggle with it. So do you guys know your lifetime Saturn cards? 

Robyn: No, but I was just gonna ask you- ... ' This leads perfectly into you helping to share- Yeah. 

who our cards and who we are at a high level, 'cause I wanna know my lifetime Saturn.

Yes. I'm very interested. 

Robert: So, , mine is a seven of clubs, and, I used to have a guy that was my Saturn card, right? And he loved to find all the mistakes in my work, oh. - He got so much joy from it. So I would always give him my software, updates first, and he would find any mistakes in there, and he, took such joy in it, and I got the benefit of it because I needed somebody to like, bug-proof my software, and he was the guy.

you would go to a Saturn person for a doctor. You would go to a Saturn person for a teacher. But they're not gonna be necessarily very nice to you,

Sometimes you can get a teacher that's better, that's not so harsh, so Karen, your Saturn card is a two of clubs.

 And Robyn, [00:22:00] yours is a seven of hearts. So, the good news about you, Robyn, is that there's very few birthdays with a seven of hearts. I think there's only, like, three maybe birthdays in the seven of hearts card. There's a lot more two of clubs out there. 

Karen: Oh, 

Robert: wow. Clubs and diamonds.

clubs and diamonds each have about 40% of the birthdays. And hearts and, hearts and spades have each, like, 10% - ... of the birthdays. So there's just way fewer hearts and spade birthdays. Okay. And the Saturn card, though, also points to, like, something that we're really working on. It's like our lifetime Pluto card.

and we have to elevate it. our Saturn card, our first karma card, and our Pluto card are cards that we came into this lifetime tending to express in a negative way, and we need to elevate them by putting our attention on them Our attention is the healing that happens, just by looking and acknowledging and, being honest with ourself about the fact, you know? So the two of clubs is a, is kind of a mental fear card [00:23:00] on a negative side, Karen. It's like, you know, What's gonna happen?" looking at you, you're so bright and joyful, no one would, would ever suspect that you, have anything like that going on.

But that's an internal thing, right? 

And, like, mine is the seven of clubs. Oh, I can be so negative. it's s- It's so embarrassing how pissy I get. I don't even wanna talk about it. I'm working on it. I'm working on it, okay? And Robyn, yours is the seven of hearts, which is the fear of abandonment or betrayal in a relationship, fear of being used by somebody else or being just, abandoned or betrayed,

so- 

Robyn: I can see that ... 

and what are Karen , and I's overall cards , like our main birthday card? 

Robert: y- Robyn, you're a queen of clubs.

. And your ruling card is a five of clubs. So you're a mixture of those and I'm surprised you're married or are- I know. We've 

Robyn: talked about this We've talked about this. 

Robert: Yeah, yeah. Are you married or just in a relationship? 

Robyn: No, I'm happily married- 

going on 25 years - 

Robert: that's awesome. Yeah. That's so unusual. It's not, like, [00:24:00] completely unheard of, okay? but 

Robyn: and Ann, like, have both said that to me. Mike Hill You both said that.

You were like, "Are you married?" and I know you meant just like, 'cause you're not sup- necessarily supposed to but when I described to you my relationship with my husband and who he is, you were like, "That's why it works." 'Cause he's a king of diamonds, I believe. 

Robert: Yeah. 

Robyn: I think my, my husband's a king of diamonds. His, he's an Aries. Yeah, you have... 

Robert: Yeah, he's a king of diamonds, four of clubs. He's moon to you, so 

That's what we discussed ... he, he lets you do whatever you want. 

Robyn: That's what we disc- That's what we 

Karen: discussed. Yes. That's why it works. 

Robert: Well, you know, you're, you're pretty lucky, 'cause it's fairly unusual for a king to allow himself to be moon to somebody, because kings usually wanna be the boss of everything, 

Robyn: I can see, like, it is unusual, 'cause he has a really powerful presence. He's really strong-willed, But he's, but he's not your boss ... he has a soft, he has a soft spot for me. 

Robert: He's your boyfriend. Well, he's not your boss, that's for sure. 

Robyn: No. 

Robert: cause when there's, like, two cards next to each other and, you have the [00:25:00] four of clubs and five of clubs, his second card's a four of clubs, the one in the front, is gonna be the leader.

And the second one is gonna be the support person. 

Which is, it's beautiful. Both get a lot of benefit from it. It's not like one person is... It's just that one is the official boss, I love going up to couples and saying, "Tell me your birthdays and I'll tell you who the boss is," you know?

Yeah. 

Karen: I 

Robert: love that. Because there's almost always a moon connection there. Almost. Yeah. There's not always, but there's almost always a moon connection, and I can do it in my head and tell them, mm. I enjoy doing that. 

Robyn: I love that. 

Robert: So, you know, and I had a couple, that both were the queen of clubs, five of clubs.

Oh. And they were married for 30 years. 

. Most of the ones I've met just won't settle down, The fives wanna keep their options open, and both of you are fives.

 They don't want any relationship to, like, take away their freedom of, Oh ... in any substantial way. Mm-hmm. So you have that. Even though you're married, you're- 

Robyn: Totally ... 

Robert: you have a lot of freedom, 

Robyn: I do ... 

Robert: that's why, that's why it works. Otherwise it [00:26:00] 

Robyn: would not work. 1,000%. It is. Yeah. Yeah. It Oh my goodness. I love that. 

Robert: And Karen, you're a five of diamonds, and you have a decanate ruler, which Robyn doesn't have, because she's in the first decanate of her sign. But your second card is a seven of spades, and this is a card of faith, are you married or in a relationship, Karen? 

Karen: Yes. 

Robert: Yes. Okay. And what's your husband's birthday, 

Karen: January 17th 

Robert: So he's a seven of clubs. He's moon to you, too. Oh my God, you both have men that are moon to you. I cannot believe that. 

Robyn: It works. Wow. 

Robert: I've just learned something about fives. I just learned they can be- ... they can be happily married to men that are moon to them.

That's a new thing. I'm gonna have to tell everybody about this. 

Robyn: I think we're here to, give you a, another, I don't know, piece of evidence- Yeah ... of some sort, data. 

Robert: It's amazing. It's Saturn to your husband, okay, by the way. 

Robyn: Karen's Saturn to her husband?

Robert: Yeah. Your seven of spades is Saturn to his seven of clubs, so man, he's got it rough.

 I mean, he must really adore you or he would [00:27:00] not stick around, because, when you're Saturn to somebody, you're not trying to be mean to them, but you can't help but use the should word all the time, with them. Mm. 'Cause you, the universe is giving you this gift of knowing all their faults, okay?

Mm-hmm. And s- That's right ... and y- you can even try not to be, I've experimented with this a lot, I'm Saturn to somebody, I'm gonna be nice to them. Okay, I'm not gonna criticize them. I'm not... It just didn't work. it comes out one way or the other, Wow. So, you know, when somebody marries a Saturn card, like he did with you, he wanted somewhat of a, a father figure to be in his life.

Robyn: Mm-hmm. 

Robert: You know? Mm. On some level he wanted that or he wouldn't have married you. Wow. 

Robyn: You see what I'm saying? 

Robert: Like, maybe- That 

Robyn: is so interesting. 

Robert: yeah, maybe he had doubts about himself or something that he wanted somebody to mirror so that he could, like, come to a more acceptance of himself, 

Karen: Mm. 

Robyn: That is- 

Karen: See that ... [00:28:00] 

Robyn: big time. 

Karen: That is really interesting. 

Robert: You know, the relationship part of the cards is, like, my favorite, and it's so powerful. It works so well. It describes everything so well. 

Karen: Mm-hmm. 

Robert: If you ever wanna just check it out, like, do one of the reports, relationship reports, 'cause it's- Yeah

much more in, in-depth than our book. it's almost impossible to do it in a book form, because there's so many different little aspects to it that you have to do. So the reports do it completely the way it's meant to be done, and they're- Love it ... very in-depth, 

Robyn: and I know, yeah, and when you've actually read Karen and I together as a partnership, I think you were surprised at how well we are suited to be partners 

Robert: Well, I think the fact that you're both fives helps a lot because you share that love of exploration.

That's what fives... Fives are all about, like, you ever watch Star Trek? Mm-hmm. So when humans meet any other races in Star Trek, the other races go, "You guys, you humans are just... What is it with all the [00:29:00] exploration shit?

what's going on?" "Like, can't you guys sit still for a minute?" 

Robyn: That is why we are seeking center. That's right. 

Robert: But, , five is, it's so much part of being a human. Mm-hmm. We have five fingers. We have five holes in our face. f- we are a five race of beings, and five people- Mm-hmm

are just, like, the most extreme example of that, sense of adventure and exploration, and wanting to learn and try and do everything, So you guys share that in common, and you obviously have a spiritual connection, i'm gonna pop up my love cards program here. Why not? 

Robyn: Please. Yes. 

Karen: Why not? 

Robert: ? Okay. Let's see. I 

Karen: can see how this can become an obsession in a way. I 

Robyn: mean, yes ... 

Karen: all those details.

Robert: I'm just gonna show you this so you can see.

 this is the relationship program that I created. And it shows you all the connections that you have with each other You can actually look at all of them. In this case, there's a lot.

36 [00:30:00] total connections, but only the first the first six to eight actually matter. So the very first one you have is Jupiter in the life spread. So this is very, very good. It's a mutual Jupiter, by the way, so you both experience it- you both get benefits from it, so it's like a triple Jupiter, which means you, you're really good financially together.

You make money together. You're good for each other on a financial level. Does that make sense? 

Mm-hmm. And then you have here Karen is Uranus to Robyn in the spiritual spread. So this is a spiritual spread connection. And what that means is that you guys came into this lifetime already having been really good friends, and already let go of any expectations of each other.

Robyn: love 

Robert: that. So that you allow each other to be whatever you wanna be without any expectation. Mm. You don't put any, like, you know, "You have to be this way," or, "You gotta promise me this," or any of that stuff. You just... it's just allowed, so it's really beautiful It's like the best connection you can have for friendship, actually.

Karen: Aw. That's so, that's so true. [00:31:00] Yeah. 

Robert: And you got another... , look at that, two Jupiter connections in the life spread. So you guys are... Look at all the Jupiter. 

Robyn: I know. 

Robert: Like, six of your connections are Jupiter, out of 10. 

Robyn: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. 

Robert: Jupiter is, financial, but it's also spiritual.

These are spiritual spread Jupiters, these- 

Robyn: Wow ... 

Robert: here. So you guys have known each other in past lives- Mm ... and you have been involved in the same spiritual group, organizations in a past life where you would, You share something from the past that's very strong, that has drawn you together again in this lifetime to be expressed, obviously. Yeah, it's beautiful. 

Karen: This is what is so cool about all of this work, Robert is we call it connecting the dots. We've had so many people that don't know us- tell us the same things over and over Oh, 

Robert: is that right? Oh, cool. 

Karen: Yeah. 

Robert: I love 

Karen: hearing 

Robert: that. Yes. Thank you.

Karen: Yes. 

Robert: Such an affirmation. Yeah ... I think that any real spiritual system like astrology, and even astrology, it- it's all in the [00:32:00] hands of who's reading it, if they're real, they should tell you the same thing overall.

Robyn: Yeah, exactly. I mean, and what I can tell you also as kind of like the cherry on top is that, like, when we talk about past lives, when Karen and I have done different past life regressions, we see each other in those lifetimes where we were in some sort of spiritual group or, And we were toge- I've never 

Robert: seen, I've never seen that many spiritual 

Robyn: Jupiter connections. And we, and so we feel it. Like, and we- Yeah ... and we've seen it. We've... - wow ... when you do those kinds of regressions, you can't unsee them, and so they stay- Right ... with you, right? Oh, yeah. And so we feel that.

And then to hear that from you, and to hear that from others, along with our own- 

seeing, it's really, it's so empowering. It's beautiful. And it, it continues to drive us to do what we're doing, because what we want others to see is that there's all these ways of having a better understanding of why you're here, of who you're connected with, why you're connected with them- Mm-hmm

and why what is this life [00:33:00] about? 

Karen: Yeah, what are you supposed to learn along the way? 

Robyn: It's really cool. 

Karen: Yeah. 

Robert: that's awesome. You guys, it's very interesting having so much Jupiter. I mean, six out of 10 are Jupiter. 

Robyn: Wow. 

Robert: Jupiter is the most fortunate planet. 

Robyn: Oh.

You 

Robert: know? 

Robyn: That's amazing. 

Robert: it's both material and spiritual with you guys. That's 

Robyn: really neat. Wow. It's great. That's really neat. 

Robert: And- I mean, , if I had a client, they wanted to say, "Well, who is the best business partner for me?"

The Jupiter is what you would pick. Wow. That's... Your first choice would be Jupiter for a business. Wow. 

Robyn: That's amazing. 

Robert: But you guys have all these other connections that lead to this past life, and a friendship, and spirituality, which is, in my opinion, if you're a spiritual person, having spiritual connections with somebody is way more important than almost anything else.

Robyn: Yeah. 

Robert: Yeah. It, makes or breaks a relationship in my opinion. 

Karen: Mm. Agreed. Like now- Agreed. But also having a relationship where... In a business relationship where we're, we're allowing each other to just, just be who we are [00:34:00] and- Right? Yeah. Like, that's- 

Robert: Yeah. Well- ... that's 

Karen: a very com- important component as well.

Robert: my... You know, one of my spiritual teachers is a Five of Diamond.

And, her whole philosophy on teaching, and she's awake, but her whole philosophy is just, whatever you are is what, is what you... All you need is right there.

You don't have to practice meditation. Just take what you have that's showing up in your life, and I love that about her teaching. I mean, that's puts importance on every little thing, not just you- That's right ... not just what you do once or twice a week when you meditate 

Robyn: That's true.

Karen: right, and then- Um- ... you came in with everything that you need. It's not that you have to change that- 

Robert: Yeah ... 

Karen: to grow necessarily. Yeah. Right? It 

Robert: includes all of that she was a wild and crazy girl when she was young, and she was a model. and worked as a bartender in a big famous bar in LA and stuff.

she didn't know, but she, she said she just paid attention, and she was like, she started to notice these areas of her life where she was like, " That really sucks." " It really sucks that, that I feel that [00:35:00] way when this happens," and she just started to question it, and that led to her awakening, so it's amazing, you know?

Robyn: It is. What would you say to someone who's listening right now, had never heard of this before? What would be the first thing that they could do to start to have a better understanding and use the system for themselves? 

Robert: You could pick , either one of the two books or get both books, because they take you from the very beginning right through in a very methodical, step-by-step way to as far as you wanna go.

'Cause there's, it takes you really from a beginner all the way to some advanced topics in there. They could also just go to my website, cardsofyourdestiny.com, and there's a free applet on there that you can put your birthday in, and it shows you what your card is, tells you a little bit about yourself, what your card is for today- tomorrow, yesterday, this month, next month, this year, next year. It has four different readings it does for you for free, and you I have free articles on the site. I have a, a [00:36:00] free podcast on Spotify. I have a free YouTube, videos. Just look up Robert Lee Camp, There's tons of free stuff, and really, just buying those books, gonna have those for the rest of your life. 

Robyn: Agree. 

Robert: it has your whole life in there, what's gonna happen month by month, and it gives you interpretations of what each card means in every different position so you know what to expect.

it's a guiding thing. I use the cards to plan. every time I have not taken the time to look at the cards, I've regretted it. 

Robyn: We're gonna have- There's- ... all of those links in our, in our show notes. But I also 

 

Robyn: have two final questions for you.

 one is what do you think, then, about destiny versus free will? 

Robert: That's a great question. Everybody wants to know that. They wanna hear something about it. Now I have gone back and forth with this over the years, okay? And I'm older now. I consider myself to have a lot more experience and wisdom about this, and really I think everything's destined.

Karen: Really? 

Robyn: I was thinking you were gonna [00:37:00] say that. I mean- Wow ... it's part of cards of your destiny, right?

Robert: I mean, we do have some choice in the matter, but we only have choice when there's enough awareness there. But if you look at the most important things that ever happened in your life, all the most important relationships, the most important e- events that led you to a certain career or whatever, all those things happened outside of your sphere of influence.

Mm. They just showed up, And you, jumped on it. That was your choice. But did you, or Was that destined too? you know, was it my destiny that when I heard about computers for the first time I went crazy and had to get one and, got right into it without even taking a class?

I mean, was it my destiny when I heard about the astrology reading that I had to go get a book right away? You know, I didn't know crap back then about myself or anything. I was only in my 20s, but I felt drawn to it and I just trusted that and went for it. And isn't that how our lives unfold, You're just like, " Oh, that sounds very interesting. I have to go check that out,"

Robyn: and when you [00:38:00] don't, there's something that eats at you, 

Robert: Yeah. Or, or does it 

Karen: come back around then, Robert? 

Robert: Oh, if it's meant to be, it'll, it'll keep coming back The Vedic astrologers, they look at it, everything's destined. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

know? Yeah. 

 And my, my other question for you is what is your, main card, like your birthday card? 

Robert: Queen of diamonds. Queen of diamonds.

Robyn: Queen of diamonds. 

Robert: Now, it's considered one of the two hardest cards in the whole deck Yeah, because we have so much karma - 

Robyn: Oh, my good- ... 

Robert: in the, in the area of relationships and money, which is the two main things in, you know, in society today. so there's so many elements in the queen of diamonds.

You know, I'm the same birthday as Tom Cruise, okay? We have the same birthday. Different years, but same birthday. Our lives, he's been way more successful, but we have a lot of similarities, I was in an ashram for 10 years. He became what? What's that group called again? 

Robyn: Scientologist. 

Robert: A Scientologist.

Scientologist. Y- he's had - multiple marriages, and he's probably gonna have more. I've [00:39:00] had five. He's had three.

 y- you look at the queen of diamonds is our highest expression. Every card has the highest expression. So the high- and the queen...

By the way, the queen of clubs and queen of diamonds are very similar. 

It- our life paths have a lot of the same numbered cards in the same positions. We both have sevens in Saturn. We both have a three as a first karma card. We both have a five in Venus, a three in Mars. We both have a jack as a Pluto card.

I mean, it's very interesting. Look at the queen of clubs and queen of diamonds. Wow. There's a lot of similarities there. They're slightly different, but very much the same. So queen of diamonds Our card sits in the line of Saturn. It's the first card, so- Oh, wow. 

Robyn: That's interesting ... 

Robert: so, so six out of seven of our life spread cards are in the Saturn.

So as she said in Sacred Symbol, she said, , "Every step of the way, the queen of diamonds gets challenged." And she was, like, listing off all these negative things. [00:40:00] That's why I threw the book down the first time I read it, you know. ' Cause she was pretty rough on the queen of diamonds, and she was really rough on the two of clubs, too, if you ever read that one.

Like, they're insane and stuff like that. But we actually get everything that we want, though. We have a nine of hearts in Jupiter, which is the wish-fulfilling card. So we actually get all of our wishes. They all come true, but does... Do we get the happiness from that, is the question.

Robyn: Mm. 

Robert: Interesting. Because we have a five in Mercury, and three in Venus, three in Mars. And so We want this, we want that, we want this, we want that." It can be a little bit, confusing. I was looking for the right word.

When you have all those threes. Well, I 

Karen: have one, I have one last question for you. 

Robert: Yeah, yeah. 

Karen: So, so this has become your life's work, and I know that you're training people to do this to continue on. What is your hope? What do you think the destiny is for the Cards of Destiny? 

Robyn: Oh, that's good, Karen.

Robert: So when I first started, I had the good fortune of running into this woman that helped me sort of, like, [00:41:00] plan my success. She helped me, like, look at it. So she said, " what is your lifetime goal? What is your 30-year goal? What's your 20-year goal?" She had me do all this stuff.

and she had me write down a purpose statement. 

 and then we distilled it down to one sentence, . And that was very powerful, because that statement still applies today, and that was that I'm bringing knowledge from the ancient past into the present to help mankind, wow. So that still applies. So for me, my goal was that everybody on the planet would get a chance to use this system, you know, whether it's through me or whatever, but that people would have the opportunity to use this for themself. Because it encourages self-knowledge, it encourages self-awareness, it encourages, self-acceptance.

So I just want that for people. I want that for myself, and I want that for everybody else,

Robyn: I love that. And we're grateful and honored to be sharing this with everyone listening or watching today, and continuing to support that. 

Robert: Well, I appreciate this very much. I was looking at our astrology too.

I [00:42:00] was looking at your charts today, this morning, and we have such good connections, three of us. Oh, that's so good. So I feel very grateful to have met you guys. 

Robyn: Yeah, I feel like there's more work to be done together. 

Robert: Yes. Anytime. 

Robyn: Yes. Thank you for having 

Karen: me. 

Robyn: Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. And to learn more about Cards of Your Destiny, you can find the book, classes, and ways to begin working with Robert, and the cards and the system at cardsofyourdestiny.com. We'll have everything that Robert mentioned in our show notes, and we look forward to more conversations, more collaborations.

Yes. 

Karen: Thank 

Robyn: you. Thank you.