Stop Waiting, Start Living: Creating a To-Die-For Life (Karen Salmansohn) - Episode 218

What if the secret to truly living… is remembering you’re going to die?

We know — that sounds intense. But stay with us.

We’re joined by the brilliant, funny, and refreshingly real Karen Salmansohn — multi–bestselling author, behavioral change expert, and founder of NotSalmon.com, whose work has helped millions of people live happier, higher-potential lives.

Robyn first met Karen years ago at Oprah, where she quickly became known for her ability to make deep spiritual wisdom feel modern, accessible — and yes, even funny. She blends psychology, neuroscience, philosophy, and humor in a way that makes you lean in instead of tune out.

In her newest book, Your To-Die-For Life, Karen introduces the powerful concept of mortality awareness — not to be morbid, but to wake us up.

Because nothing will motivate you to seize the day quite like realizing your days are numbered.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Why remembering you will die can be the greatest productivity + purpose hack
• How to stop “ripping the covers off” self-help and finally own your growth
• The psychology behind procrastination (and how mortality snaps you out of it)
• Letting go of the nonsense that keeps you small
• How to design a life that feels deeply aligned and meaningful
• The difference between being busy… and being truly alive

Karen shares how she blends research with humor (think Psychology Today + Mad Magazine in a blender), why self-help needed a rebrand, and how to create what she calls a “to-die-for life.”

This conversation is funny. It’s practical. It’s motivating in the best way. And it might just be the loving nudge you didn’t know you needed.

Because if you’re listening to this… it’s no accident.

It’s time to wake up.

MORE FROM KAREN SALMANSOHN

• Latest Book: Youre To-Die-For Life 
• The Stand Up Philosopher Substack: notsalmon.substack.com
• Follow her @notsalmon

Visit seekingcentercommunity.com for more with Robyn + Karen and many of the guides on Seeking Center: The Podcast. You'll get access to live weekly sessions, intuitive guidance, daily inspiration, and a space to share your journey with like-minded people who just get it.

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Transcript

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

Karen: On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

Robyn: And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com. we are so thrilled about today's guest and this one feels extra special and full circle for me. I first met Karen Samuelson when I was running content at Oprah.

Karen had this incredible way of making spiritual wisdom, feel accessible, modern, and even [00:01:00] fun. She quickly became a beloved regular columnist. What I love then and still love now is how Karen has this magic ability to make the spiritual not so woo. She bridges deep truth with humor and practicality in a way that just clicks. Karen is a multi bestselling author with more than 2 million books and courses sold, a leading behavioral change expert and the founder of Not salmon.com,

where she helps millions of people live their happiest and highest potential lives. Her newest book, you're To Die for Life is one of those books that stops you in your tracks in the best possible way. It's an invitation to look at life through the lens of mortality awareness, Not to be morbid, but to be awake because as Karen says, nothing will motivate you to seize the day.

More than realizing your days are numbered. This is a conversation about really living about , releasing the nonsense, realigning with what matters most, and daring to create your own to die for life. It's a book and a concept that [00:02:00] we truly believe we all need right now. Let's get going.

Hi, Karen and hi Karen. 

Karen: You 

Karen's. I love it. Bend 

together. 

Karen: Karen? Yes.

Karen S: We've gotta unite , we're gonna bring back the name Karen, in a much more powerful reframe. 

Robyn: Oh my goodness. As I said, this is so full circle, Karen, such an honor and pleasure, and. So grateful that a fellow friend of ours reconnected us, Amy Robbins and when we first got together at Oprah and what inspired you to make spirituality more relatable and even funny and.

Karen S: Well, when I was a kid, my mom used to pick up my dad from the train station. I always offered to go with her because there was a magazine shop across the street from the train station and I would buy Psychology Today and Mad Magazine.

 Because I love psychology and I love philosophy. But then have a philosophy Today magazine and I love humor. And if you. Take Psychology Today and Mad [00:03:00] Magazine if people dunno what that is, it's a funny magazine. You put 'em in a blender, you press rap. And that's sort of how I write. I love to mix research and psychology and philosophy and neuroscience, all of that, but always with humor.

And then I was reading a lot of self-help books and I would rip off the covers hide them Almost like a sit thing, like in another book cover. So nobody would know. 'cause I felt embarrassed because back then self-help did not feel cool. And because I come from advertising, I thought there should be self-help for people who wouldn't be caught dead reading, self-help or self-help that you could give to a friend as a gift and they're not gonna punch you 'cause it looks kind of cool.

And then I decided that I would write that. And my very first book was How to Be Happy Damnit, that I wrote back in the 1990s and my agent thought I was nuts putting the word damnit in a self-help book title. But nowadays that's tame. I was the first person to put a naughty word in a book title.

[00:04:00] Especially a self-help book title now it's like, whatever. Damn it. Whatever, but I felt like there was a need for it to make it accessible, fun, and something you'll leave out rather than hide. 

Karen: , you had the actually courage, Karen Oh yeah. come out with that kind of a title to really embrace those people who were looking for self-help, but might have been a little. 

[careful]

Karen S: tell you, I add a little more onto that, which was my agent didn't want me to do it so much that I said, I love you, but I love my book idea more and I must be true to me.

And I left that agent to do the book on my own. 

Robyn: Wow. That's Karen. I didn't know that. 

Karen: Yeah. 

And what I did was I had the whole vision of it in my mind. 'cause I also wanted to make it like with cool design and, make it like a spoonful of eye candy helps the self-help medicine go down.

Like if you make it look kind of fun again, this is in the 1990s, nobody was doing this back then. So what I did was, because I used to be in advertising. And I [00:05:00] was a creative director and one Cleos and all of that. And another part of my career life, I found somebody who understood InDesign. 'cause I didn't know how to do the technology.

I just kind of was like somebody that creative directed. So I found somebody who was talented in InDesign and we art directed the whole book together from beginning to end and then took the completed book. Sent that out to agents and to to publishing houses. And that's how we wound up selling How to Be Happy.

Damnit. And then that book became Urban Outfitters bestselling book for a couple years in a row on that table where they had, 

Robyn: , Because you knew , it's that combination of. The substance, but then also the packaging. 

Karen S: The packaging does matter. A little 

bit.

Robyn: I always say this to you, because in addition to the book looking so attractive and something you'd wanna pick up and read and happy, honestly, you also had all of these other. Materials [00:06:00] that were there to help you remember, so like you had all kinds of products that I had in my office that had energy to them and I think that's where you were able to marry that design aspect, making it cool and relatable with the message which people weren't doing Then.

Karen S: They weren't doing it back then. And that book also wound up because of the wild title in an Eminem music video where you see him, he's reading the book and the camera pan and he's holding its bright orange cover. How to Be Happy Damnit. It was also in a PBS special on happiness because it had the depth, 

Robyn: It is both. 

Karen S: Thank you. 

Robyn: that's part of your gift and even when we're gonna start talking about death, 

Karen S: so yeah. So what a pivot to your to Die for life. Can you talk about that book and where that came from? Yeah, 

 actually it has a slightly similar story where I've been wanting to do the book on death for a while since my [00:07:00] dad passed away.

I really started to become aware of oddly what I would call the benefits of mortality awareness because after he died, I say death is a very powerful alarm clock. It woke me up to how I was living my life. And it made me aware that I kept saying someday, someday to a lot of things, like having a baby, having family, I someday, someday.

And also that I was in what I would call beast mode, where I was working extra, extra hard, which is good to a certain degree, but anything in an extreme starts to be a little bit problematic. I realized that I needed more balance in my life. ' cause when my dad passed, it got me kind of on like, what would people say about me and my eulogy.

I gave my dad's eulogy and got me thinking about my life more. So it really did wake me up. And from there I kept telling my other agent, I wanna write a book about death. I wanna write a book about death. And like the woman with how to be happy. Damn. And she's like. Karen, you write [00:08:00] books about happiness.

don't write a book about death. And then finally, enough time passed and I called her up and I go, I really wanna write this book about death. And she was like, I really don't want you to. So I got off the phone and I thought to myself, you know what? I remember when had to be happy, damnit, that agent didn't wanna do it.

And I had the guts to leave the agent and do it. And then I thought. Oh, I guess when I was younger, I was bolder. I was feistier, I was more innovative. And then I thought, wait a minute. I'm so bold, feisty, innovative, and then I parted ways with that agent and moved on to do this book and I'm really glad I did.

this is my favorite book I've ever written, and I was 

Robyn: really. 

Karen S: Oh yeah. 

Robyn: And can you just remind people how many books you've written? Because it's a lot. Oh, 

Karen S: I've written a lot of different books in different areas. I write what intrigues me, , I write about challenges I've gone through and I'm a research geek , when the going gets tough, I [00:09:00] go down the rabbit hole and research everything.

So I have a book called the Bounce Back book, which is about resiliency. Psychology. I have a book on longevity because I'm a late in life mom and I decided, I wanna live. I promised my son I'd live to a hundred. He asked me to live to 200, but I bargained him down to 100 and he accepted my counter offer.

thought, I wanna research this, and maybe I'll write a book and a publishing house will pay me to research everything. so I wrote my book, life is Long, which had 50 plus ways to live a little closer to forever. so I write about what interests me and then I go into deep research and then I write it up in a way that's simple and accessible.

So your To Die for Life is written with humor again, but it also has. A whole doable plan for how to live more boldly and more meaningful life. And one of the things that I did in the book was I looked at the top regrets of [00:10:00] the dying from a few different death doulas, and then I reverse engineered them to help people figure out how do you avoid the top.

Regrets of the dying. And I figured out a system actually that helps people to live more boldly and with less regrets. 

Karen: This is so fascinating and it's again, I think so many of us wish we had the time and energy to write a book like this, but like thank, thankfully we have use, so now we can read the book and learn what in all of these.

Karen, for you personally , has been the biggest lesson. 

Karen S: Oh, I could answer that. I'm really, i'm inspired by Aristotle's philosophies on what true happiness is. And it's actually, in all of my books. And it shows up in a big way in your to Die for life. And I can, tell you real quickly and I could also tell you that I love Aristotle's philosophy so much that I named my son [00:11:00] Ari.

 but it's like, , I didn't name Aristotle. I thought that would be like child abuse. What? I love 

Ari though. anyway, so Aristotle says a couple things that relate to mortality awareness and also living a meaningful life. He says that you don't know if you've lived a good life until you're on your deathbed.

And you're looking back. And then he also says, you should begin every project with the ends in mind. Everything from something small to like a bake sale to something large like that gigantic project called your life. And try to envision what you want the end of that project to be. So you should think about how you wanna feel on your deathbed and what you wanna achieve and what you want.

And then he says that, everybody on this planet has the same end goal for their lives. He doesn't care where you're from, even like what time period. What worked for him back then works for us now. And you could be from like Toledo to Toronto to Timbuktu. And the end goal for life, according to [00:12:00] Aristotle, is to learn lessons that help you to grow into your highest potential self.

 That it's about what he called the education of the soul or your core self if you're more psychological. And Aristotle said that he believed the reason why so many people are unhappy is they have the wrong end goal for their life. think it's to become the richest person on the planet, to become the most powerful person on the planet, to have the most social media followers on the planet, to be the sexiest person on the planet.

And he says that if you make that your. End goal for life. When you get to the end, of your life, you're gonna be mightily disappointed. 'cause you're gonna realize you chased the wrong rabbits. That those are what he calls. Ego directed, status directed wealth directed, lust directed. And you need to be growth directed, soul directed.

 And modern psychologists talk about this too. They talk about it in terms of, fulfillment and flourishing. Like Seligman [00:13:00] he's the, guy who's the head of positive psychology and he talks about how. the difference between happiness and fulfillment, like being a parent, you might not be happy all the time, but you're fulfilled that it comes with some stress and some ongoing, challenges that you have to deal with and in, your to die for life.

I also describe it in more common languages that. A lot of people think that life is supposed to be this den of pleasure, but it's also really a laboratory for growth and occasionally have to leave the den and head into the lab to do the growth. And people sometimes don't wanna leave the den and go into the lab, but that's how you live a meaningful life is if you're willing to sit with what you're going through and really try to learn from it, and then use that to grow into your highest potential self.

And that's how you'll be what I call. Good and deathbed, you're like, I did good. Yeah, sure I had that challenge, [00:14:00] but look at how I handled it. and a lot of it has to do with core values, which I also write about in the book, that's my speedy, caffeinated version of the book.

Robyn: and, I have a couple more questions when it comes to it, because it is like a textbook for living honestly. 

Karen S: On living a meaningful life. Yeah. Even though 

Robyn: it's 

Karen: about death, it's actually a book about life. 

Robyn: It is. 

Karen S: It's about how to live a meaningful life, 

Robyn: and here's a question.

Why do you think people resist talking about death? 

Karen: , they call it terror management. there's a psychological term about it that people are so afraid of death that they call it. Terror management. 

Robyn: Wow. Wow. 

Karen S: And also we'd rather think about what's right in front of us.

 we're sort of built for that. Actually, it goes back to Aristotle's belief on eudaimonia. I found out when I read the audio for the book, ironically it's eudaimonia and my book is about death. So as I kept reading that word, 'cause I talk about a lot in the book eudaimonia is Fulfillment and Hedonia.

It's the pleasure aspect, but most people [00:15:00] want hedonia the pleasure. The quick thing we don't like to think about putting in effort. a lot of people choose what I call the enjoy now struggle more later, plan for life versus the struggle a little now. Enjoy more later. Which is what fulfillment is.

You struggle a little, but you enjoy more. Go to the gym, struggle, enjoy more later, more energy, more confidence, more health, you know, and all of that. So people don't wanna think about future death. They'd rather live in the immediate gratification moment. We're kind of built like that, and so that's why mortality awareness helps.

It snaps you out of that, and it reminds you that there's a future you out there. Depending on you not to be an idiot, to make the right choices Now depending on you to be brave, So when you live with mortality awareness, it kind of creates this bifocal lens where you're thinking about what you're enjoying your now, but you're thinking about, [00:16:00] okay, how will this affect my future?

And it kind of lights a fire under your tush instead of being afraid. To do the risky things, it reminds you you should be afraid to die with the music still inside you. And then that fear becomes greater than like, should I make that phone call? Should I publish the book that I know in my heart I really wanna publish?

That's what mortality awareness does. It reminds you you're here and then you're not, and it's up to you to make the here part as meaningful as possible. 

Karen: I feel like we all need to hear that. 

Robyn: We do. And I think so many people, it takes something tragic in many ways to wake them up to that, right?

The sudden death of someone they love or a diagnosis of some sort. Those are the things that I think some people. Experience, and then they're like, oh my God, I need to live my life to the fullest. And they have these epiphanies [00:17:00] that it isn't just about success in the way that we've been taught culturally.

It's all about other aspects that you're talking about when it comes to fulfillment. So. I feel like we can't stress it enough. We hope it doesn't take one of those experiences for you to start to recognize 

Karen S: it. my, my book is your wake up call without having to be rushed to the emergency room.

You know, like, you know what? I love 

Robyn: you so much because like, exactly. The way you put it. 

Karen S: Yeah. And, that's why I also use humor to go gentle on people talking. 'cause I am aware that people, we'll talk about anything these days. It's amazing how we'll, like, we'll talk about gun control really openly, but like if you talk about your own death, that people don't wanna talk about Yeah.

 And somebody you know, has somebody that dies. You're like, oh, what do I say? Yes. It's awkward and I wanna make death a more common conversation because here's the weird thing, studies [00:18:00] show the more you embrace. Your own death, the better you live. It doesn't make you more depressed. It actually puts like a fire.

 in you. 

Robyn: So true. , We talk about death a lot, on our podcast and in life, and. I always tell people, there's one of these experiences that I had with an Indian palm leaf reader who told me, and they weren't the only person that has told me around the time I'm supposed to die.

And who knows if that's true or not, but I actually go with it. It makes me feel comfortable. And I talk about that all the time and people are like, can you just stop saying you're gonna die around 83? And I'm like. No, I'm actually really cool with it because and whether or not that ends up for me, I'm like, I'm living my life. You 

Karen S: should said 183. 

Robyn: Yeah, I know I should, I know I should change it, but, my point is I'm so comfortable with it because. The more honest you can be in life, like I tell people I love you

I say all that to share because I hope other people. [00:19:00] Can embrace that too. 

Karen S: and by accident you just said one of the top regrets of the dying, which is being authentic, you know, expressing how you feel, and when I reversed the top regrets of the dying.

I realize that there are seven core values that if you embrace these core values, it's like applying regret, resistance, sealants over your life. So I can tell you

, please share what those are. 

And Robyn, authentic is one of them.

 So they go in alphabetical order. Actually, one of them didn't fit, so I had to kind of tweak the word to make it fit in there. You'll, you'll see which one. So the first one is for authentic because so many people at the end of their life were saying like, I wish I'd lived more true to myself.

I wish I had spoken more honestly about how I felt. That authentic one. If you embrace that, and I have a system in there in the book to live by all of these seven core values, but right now I'll just list them. B is brave and that's like, [00:20:00] for example, me saying, I'm letting you go agent, I love you, but I love my book idea more.

You know? So being brave and getting outta your comfort zone, thinking about it, the more you live in your comfort zone, the smaller your life, C is curious. And that one is mighty powerful for a couple reasons. First of all, the way you grow is to be curious. Instead of saying, why me?

You ask, why me? What did I do? What am I learning from this? How did that happen? Because we repeat what we don't repair. 

Robyn: Oof. 

Karen S: Yes. You have to get curious about why is this a pattern? Why or what did I do that? What, huh? so curiosity can help you to live a braver, more authentic life even. And also living with curiosity kind of creates awe.

Like, oh, I wonder why there's a rainbow, or you know, whatever it is. it gets you living with awe and studies say that the more you live with awe, the happier you are. So that's A, B, C, D is discerning, and that one's [00:21:00] really important because it's about being the curator of your life with the people in it, how you use your time.

 so many times people are saying, well. I don't have time to write a book or I don't have time to do this, but I don't have time as sort of like the adult equivalent of the dog ate my homework. You can figure out how to have time if you're discerning. And you figure out are your time leaks, where are you wasting time?

 So I have a whole thing on that in the book. And then E is for empathic love, and that's one I had to tweak to get in there. I added empathic in front of love, and I actually think it helps. What I mean by love, it helps to explain it more because I want it not just to be romantic love. Loving, like empathically loving and it could be for strangers, your colleague, animals, you know yourself, even, to approach life with, wanting to be an empathically loving person, actively listening, hearing the other.

 person's point of view, wanting to connect. [00:22:00] And then F is for fun, believe it or not. That's a core value. And I forgot to list all the reason why these are related to the regrets of the dying, but fun in particular is related to the regret of the dying. I wish I hadn't worked so hard. So we worship productivity in our culture and again, being in beast mode versus what I call best mode, which is where you have balance. So fun is a core value that will help you to make sure you don't die with that regret of the dying. And then G is gratitude to appreciate what you have. Some of the top regrets of the dying were like, I wish I hadn't lost touch with my friends, or I wish I had allowed myself to be more happy in my days.

And gratitude helps you appreciate the people that you have, appreciate what you have and it helps you, to enjoy. Times that are even tough. If you find gratitude, you can still, make it through a day and all of that. So those are the top seven core values that if you embrace them, you will help swerve away from [00:23:00] the regrets of the dying.

Karen: So good. And they're just, , logical in so many ways. And when you put it that way, it makes it so simple. I'll remember the letters that's very, very helpful. 

Karen S: Easier 

because they're alphabetical. and the other thing is, I feel like our culture does have the wrong end goals for life.

Like to be the richest, the most successful, But here's the thing. At your funeral, nobody's gonna get up and read your LinkedIn profile. 

Robyn: Exactly, 

Karen S: Nobody's gonna print out your Google calendar and say, look at how productive she was and pass it around the room. Now you know what they're gonna do.

They're gonna tell stories about you. each of the stories are going to feature a core value. I remember she was so kind that time that I was sick, she came by with soup, or I remember what a great listener they were. I remember this. And then tell stories that are about your core values and that's what's gonna be spoken about you.

And those are the ripples you leave behind. Are you [00:24:00] living by core values, having your actions match up? With the core values you claim that you want to embrace. And that's kind of a little bit about my book helps you to do, make sure that you're living by the core values that you want to represent in your life.

Robyn: And when you talk about that to me, it really then talks about your evolvement as a soul, because all of those values 

deeply related to your purpose, I think for being here in this lifetime. 

Karen S: Absolutely. Again, learning lessons help you grow into your best possible self, 

Robyn: exactly as you said. 

Karen: And if that's your lens, you could even kind of, use it to help you get through the tough times because there will be tough times, but like, how can I grow from this?

How can I become a better person from this? you start looking for the little golden nuggets in the, the crappy stuff that happens. Like, what can I pluck out of this crappy thing and hold onto, 

Robyn: it's true, and it [00:25:00] doesn't mean that you don't get sad or mad or all the things, but then if you can for a moment be like.

What is this about? As you said, instead of the why me, it's like, wait, why me? Like, what is this? 

Karen: I love that one. That's so helpful. my mom and my grandmother also taught me this, that fear of death, if that's something that's hovering over you.

Another way to look at it is almost those rocking chair moments, You're that 85-year-old. Woman or man sitting in a rocking chair. Looking back at your life or maybe sharing those moments with someone else, what are the things that you will talk about? Like, I love yours, Karen, and how you say there was that leaving of the publisher, That was probably a grueling, difficult moment in your life, and yet now you share that with such joy you had that bravery to do that. Right? 

Karen S: And you know what's interesting? It was reminding myself of my core values. 

Yes. 

Karen S: and that's why I have people live by them, because it creates what I call cognitive dissonance.

If you're [00:26:00] reminded of these core values, you're not living with it. You snap to like this. So when I got off the phone with the agent and I thought of what happened with how to be happy, damnit, how I left that agent and moved forward, and then those words are actually core values. Oh, I guess I was more bold back then.

I guess I was more feisty, I guess I was more innovative those are core values and I thought. I value those, I'm going to live by those core values. So in the book, I help people to remind themselves each day of the core values, and you're more likely to do it, it's called identity based statements.

So if you create what I call an I am, and so I do. Statement, you're more likely to do it. And there's research on this. If you say, I am, you're doing it now and you don't even know it. This is why people that walk around thinking, I'm sloppy, they're gonna be sloppy If they, I'm organized, you're gonna be organized, or I'm healthy, you're gonna be healthy.

You, this is why it's [00:27:00] easier to keep the momentum going if you're going to the gym. You're thinking, I'm healthy. So you continue to go to the gym, you continue to think I'm healthy. But if you fall off the cliff and you stop going, some voice in you is like, oh, I'm not athletic, I'm not healthy. And then it's harder to go to the gym.

But once you start. Your identity. It's identity based thinking. So I have people purposefully write down, I am loving. And so I call my mom three times a week or you know, whatever it is, you write down the core value and then if you don't do it, it creates that cognitive dissonance the way I had in that moment with my agent.

Wait, I'm not bold. Wait, I'm bold. I'm not. Wait, I'm So, it does that if you keep living. Aware of what your core values are and use identity based statements, you're more likely to create what I call a to die for life. 

Robyn: that's so good. And it also reminds me another tool in your book is a life [00:28:00] audit. 

Karen: Yes, 

Robyn: Can you just talk about that for a moment? 

Karen S: Yeah. I also offer that on my, your Die for Life website Life reviews. I do too with it. it's so funny. I do call it life audit in the book, but what I want to put it up on my site. I thought people don't like the word audit. Oh, 

Robyn: that is true. 

Karen S: At first I asked them to think about death, and now I'm going, okay, let's do an audit. I'm like, no, no, no. We'll call it a review on my website, but in the book, I do call it audit, where you look at your life and you figure out, that's where you also get discerning and you figure out where am I wasting time?

Am I living according to my values? Who am I? who is me? how can I live true to me if I'm gonna be authentic? Who am I? and it asks all of these questions. And then it also, you look at the patterns in your life and you get honest about them. And in the book I have something called chronological mapping, which is kind of fun actually.

It's a little bit nerdy, geeky, but it's kind [00:29:00] of. You draw a line down a long piece of paper, either you tape together a bunch of eight and a half by elevens, or you get like those butcher papers and then you track your life and you put down inciting incidents like all the big times in your life First fell in love, first had heart stomped on, first job got fired. this, that, and you, watch what's happening where they're landing and then you connect the dots. So it helps you look for what I call the gift, the assignment, the bridge and the zigzag to make peace and get closure with some of the less.

happy times in your life, the more events. Well, look, that happened, but it brought me here. Oh, I kept having this happen. You like color code it and you figure it's like a treasure map of your life. And you start to see the patterns in your life and what you're supposed to be learning.

 then, 'cause it's a chronological map of your life, there's still more life. The line goes here, you're only here on the map. And you're aware [00:30:00] nothing is everything. That terrible thing that you thought was like, my whole life is ruined. you see, oh wait, it can't have ruined my whole life.

Look, I have more life force ahead of me, and it reminds you that you have more time and that's your roadmap. What are you gonna do with a road ahead of you? You still have more road ahead of you? What are you gonna do with it? And then you can start to plan ahead for that. 

Karen: Oh, I've done that myself and it was such an eyeopener because it made me truly grateful for some of the things that I went through and like, well, okay, I'm truly living this life.

I am trying every kind of experience that I can try and I'm learning along the way. and I think it makes yourself much kinder to yourself and much more appreciative of the journey that you've been on because you've seen that you have. Honestly done great things, but you've also weathered a lot of storms and giving yourself that grace that you've been able to get through all of those times and learn so many lessons through them.

Karen S: [00:31:00] Very well said and very true. The empathically loving thing has be used on ourselves too. 

Karen: Yes, We're here. If we keep with the Aristotle thing to learn lessons that help you you're going into the lab of growth,

 i'm 

Karen S: here to learn lessons that help me to grow.

I'm right on plan with what my life is here for. So you can kind of more easily forgive some of the tougher passages. 

Robyn: Wow. how would you say you are living this now on a daily basis? You used the example of deciding, let's say, to leave your agent again, but how are you using this on, your daily basis?

Karen: a couple of ways, like one quick story. I have this friend Danielle, who used to live in Manhattan, and she got married and, she was gonna have a birthday party in Connecticut, and I live in Manhattan. My driver's license expired. I never got it renewed. And when she sent out the invite to go to Connecticut, my first impulse was like.

Ugh, I don't drive. How am I gonna get myself to Connecticut? I [00:32:00] guess I won't be going to Danielle's birthday party, but because I also wrote my eulogy, we didn't even get into that, but in my eulogy, I write how meaningful my friendships are and I actually really believe that a meaningful life has meaningful relationships.

 It's a big duh. so I thought, wait a minute. Meaningful relation. Again, this is where core values come in. I'm a loving person. Meaningful what? I'm not gonna go to her birthday party because it's in Connecticut. So then I wrote down, I am a loving person, and so I find a way to get my tush to Connecticut, And what it does is it reminds me. Of course I'm gonna find a way to get to Connecticut versus me just impulsively, oh, Connecticut so far, And again, that cognitive dissonance. So of course I found a way to get myself. To Connecticut to celebrate her birthday.

So in fact, I have a daily exercise I ask people to do if they're having a challenge. Who do I need to become to have a, better relationship with [00:33:00] my child, to have a better relationship with my mom or to, you know, whatever, who do I need to become to write that book to whatever it is, and then answer it with core values.

Then try to, intentionally embrace those core values with different I am. And so I do statements and then the eulogy helps. 

Robyn: you've mentioned the eulogy a couple times. we all know what a eulogy is, but how do you go about that? 

Karen S: So I know a lot of people would feel like, I don't wanna write my eulogy.

So to take the creepy crawley out of it, I wrote a fill in the blank eulogy, like Mad Libs. Remember Mad Libs? 

Fill in the blanks of the eulogy and it helps you to write your eulogy without it feeling like really morbid or anything like that. But I want people to write it, not for like if you, God forbid, got hit by a bus tomorrow, but for like you in the future for like 90 something, 83-year-old, a hundred year, yes.

Whatever [00:34:00] It is. Aspirational you. 

 Then look at current you and aspirational you, and then ask who do I need to become? To bloom into aspirational you, and there will be core values. In fact, a lot of the blanks in the Mad Libs template have to do with core values. And then I have people write what I call a to die list.

Each day you write a to-do list each day, but a to-do list has a fatal flaw. It just tracks productivity and it doesn't track the meaningful things that will help you. To feel like you're living a meaningful life. So a to die list is not a bucket list. It's more like a to do what matters most list.

 And that's where you write down the I am. And so I do statements and each day you do something from your to die list. So you're living in such a way that you will become aspirational, eulogy. 

Robyn: as everybody can hear, there is so much in this book and really in all your books because [00:35:00] you are very thoughtful and you give people these actionable ways to integrate what you've learned.

And researched in their lives, like in a very easy way. 

Karen: And infused with 

Karen S: humor, which 

makes 

Robyn: exactly, 

Karen S: makes it fun. 

It makes it easier, you know, if you're gonna talk about death, it helps if there's like a little whimsy in there and, and talk about it in a way where I'm still like, ha ha, it's not like sitcom.

It's more like. Poignant, like, haha.

Karen: Perfect. I love it. Karen, I feel like I wanna read every single one of your books and have them handy as references on a day to day. love everything that you've talked about and it is so important for us to think about. the way you've served it up is a way that we can all. embrace it with, a smile and really have those moments where we, feel like we're working towards a life that we can really love, even in the present moment.

 Which is so important [00:36:00] too. 

 Yes. 

Robyn: Yeah. what's the last thing you'd want someone who's listening to right now to walk away with from this conversation? 

Karen S: You are mortal. Quit doling. 

Robyn: Get 

Karen S: to it. 

Robyn: Get to it. Wow. Well, Karen, thank you so much for sharing, for creating, for being bold and being innovative and courageous.

And feisty and funny and for being part of our lives and. for helping guide us all for many decades now. So keep us all on point so that we can live these very fulfilling and happy, joyful lives while we're here. Thank you. 

Karen S: Thank you so much for inviting me here.

I was so delighted when you popped back into my life again. we talked about woo and woo woo, and in the book I say that instead of being like, full on woo woo, I'm just like one woo. But I'm more like psychological, but. when we met again I was like, [00:37:00] okay, like that's a little woowoo.

Robyn: It, it is. And there's just a soul connection. Like we can feel it. Definitely. And what's the best place for people to find you? 

Karen: Well, my name is Karen Salmanson everybody mangles it and says salmon sin.

So I'm always going not salmon. And so I have a website, not salmon, like not the fish, not salmon.com and Instagram is that my substack is substack salmon. But it's called the Standup philosopher and I love writing essays there. And then my website for the book is the name of the book, your To Die For Life.

So you're to die for life.com. It has the life review, how you can work with me and other things there, including the book. But you can buy the book everywhere the books are sold. 

Robyn: Yes. And we'll have all the links in our show notes too. Thank you.