Signs, Soul Contracts & Love Beyond the Veil - Episode 151, S2

In this deeply moving and enlightening episode, we welcome Sarah Austin, a mother, seeker, and spiritual explorer who shares her transformative journey of healing and understanding after the passing of her daughter, Trinity. In 2021, Sarah lost Trinity to suicide after Trinity endured years of debilitating pain from endometriosis and adenomyosis—conditions that are still widely misunderstood and too often dismissed by the medical community. What began as an unimaginable loss led Sarah on a path of self-discovery, spiritual awakening, and a deeper connection with the unseen world.

Through divine synchronicities, powerful spiritual encounters, and the wisdom found in books and personal experiences, Sarah unveils the signs that have guided her, the soul contracts that shape our journeys, and the unbreakable love that transcends the physical realm.

If you’ve ever wondered about the messages our loved ones send us, the nature of the afterlife, or the spiritual agreements we make before birth, this conversation will offer profound insight, comfort, and inspiration.

In This Episode, We Explore:
✨ Signs & Synchronicities
✨ Soul Contracts & Pre-Birth Planning
✨ Spiritual Expansion & Releasing Fear
✨ The Power of Automatic Writing
✨ Receiving Messages from Trinity
✨ Healing Through Past-Life Regression
✨ The Perspective Shift on Suicide & the Afterlife

Key Takeaways & Practices:
🌟 Pay Attention to the Signs
🌟 Trust Your Own Connection
🌟 Explore Spiritual Teachings
🌟 Allow Yourself to Feel
🌟 You Are Never Alone

Recommended Books from This Episode:
📖 Experiencing God: Knowing and Doing the Will of God – Henry Blackaby
📖 Standing in the Shadow: Help & Encouragement for Suicide Survivors – June Cerza Kolf
📖 The Fierce Goodbye: Hope in the Wake of Suicide – G. Lloyd Carr & Gwendolyn C. Carr
📖 90 Minutes in Heaven – Don Piper
📖 My Son and the Afterlife – Elisa Medhus, MD
📖 Oneness – Rasha
📖 Signs – Laura Lynne Jackson
📖 Between Death and Life – Dolores Cannon
📖 Journey of Souls – Michael Newton, Ph.D.
📖 Celestial Conversations – Lo Anne Mayer
📖 Your Soul’s Plan – Robert Schwartz
📖 Radical Forgiveness – Colin Tipping

Resources & Links:
🌿 Learn more about Sarah Austin at thescratchpantry.com
🌿 Explore past episodes & spiritual insights at Seeking Center
🌿 If you or someone you know is in crisis, please reach out to the Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255
🌿 For endometriosis support, visit endofound.org
🌿 ​Read more about Trinity's story on endofound.org

This episode is a powerful testament to the idea that love never dies, and that our connection to those we have lost is stronger than we may realize. Sarah’s journey reminds us that we are all supported, guided, and deeply loved—both in this life and beyond.

 Make sure you're FOLLOWING Seeking Center, The Podcast, so you never miss an episode of life changing conversations, aha moments, and some deep soul wisdom.

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You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:54 Signs, Soul Contracts & Love Beyond the Veil

Transcript

Robyn: [00:00:00] 

Karen and I are passionate about sharing stories of seekers that inspire, You'll and illuminate our journeys. They face the unimaginable and we're shown the depth of their strength and the magic that lives within and all around them. In this episode, we have the honor of speaking with our dear friend and soul sister, Sarah Austin, who is a mother.

Robyn: Advocate, entrepreneur, executive, and spiritual seeker. Sarah's story is one of profound loss, resilience, and transformation. In 2021, Sarah lost her daughter, Trinity Lillian Graves. To suicide after Trinity endured years of debilitating pain from endometriosis and Adenomyosis. Conditions that are still widely misunderstood and too often dismissed by the medical community. In the wake of this tragedy, Sarah's life took a turn she never expected. She could communicate with Trinity on the other side. A woman deeply rooted in her religious [00:01:00] faith. Sarah shared what was happening with several members of her faith community and quickly realized her experiences would not be accepted or taken seriously.

This revelation became the catalyst for her spiritual awakening, leading her down a path of deep exploration into intuition, mediumship, and connecting with spirit. Today, Sarah is a passionate advocate for endometriosis awareness, a believer in the power of spiritual connection, and a seeker of truth.  

Both in this world and beyond, she has dedicated herself to understanding the soul, the ego, and the ways in which we can communicate with our higher selves and our loved ones in spirit. Her practices, insights, and personal aha moments serve as a beacon of hope for those navigating grief, loss, or their own spiritual awakening.

We have so much to discuss. Let's get going. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Sarah. Oh, my goodness. First of all, 

Karen: so sorry [00:02:00] about your loss. I just felt like in this case, we have to say that up front because still a weight that you're carrying with you. So thank you so much for coming here and being willing to share this.

incredible story that you have to share with us. Thank you for the opportunity. 

Robyn: And also, before we start, I have to say, Sarah is a dear friend of mine and we really have been able to connect on a soul level. And just like I do with Karen, Sarah and I are constantly sharing signs and synchronicities and revelations that we have.

 I'm so grateful that we can connect in that way 

All: and 

Robyn: didn't get to meet Trinity, but Trinity comes to me. And so I share what I received from Trinity with Sarah and also I get signs from her all the time.

And There are certain stretches of where I live this one road that I drive down and there are three spots that have different signs, huge signs that say Trinity, for one's a [00:03:00] church, one's a college.

And I've always noticed it. But now makes more sense that's a very sacred road now for me, So I just had to start there. And what we really want to start with, though, is you telling all of us a little bit more about Trinity and who she was and her passions and the light that she brought to your life.  

Sarah: So she was my first born firstborns they make you a mother. And she was just the most precious gift. And so smart and so fun and so funny. She was so talented and creative.

Anything that she found interest in, she would research until she became an expert at it. Her friends relied on her for support guidance. We'd have people staying at her home when they needed respite from what was going on in their family's lives.

. I taught them to crochet when they were little, she turned it into a business. Always making clothes and fashion and into current events and always informing. So in the wake of her absence, she [00:04:00] took up so much space that, I remember my daughters and I, after she passed thinking, okay, now who's the funny one, 

All: She 

Sarah: was our constant DJ.

She had all the best music. Rob and I have talked about how like spiritually, she was also pretty advanced. She was so much of a person at 18 that it really, as I've continued a journey, It really blows my mind.

Robyn: When, how did endometriosis end up factoring into her life?   

Sarah: She started her cycle at 12 and she started having painful cycles at 14 and that's when she started missing school. And so I didn't think much of it cause she's missing a day or two of school, but was at her checkup I mentioned it to our practitioner and it didn't occur to me that there could be a problem. So the practitioner said maybe we want to get her checked for PCOS. it just didn't occur to me at all that there could be a condition. I just thought it was a painful period. those listening, can you tell them what PCOS is?

Yeah. PCOS is polycystic ovarian syndrome. 50 percent of women have PCOS. It's a [00:05:00] very common condition. It's where cysts. develop and rupture and it causes a lot of infertility issues. So PCOS and endometriosis is all. Intertwined as women's health challenges. So that began our journey.

And then the hardship was that Trinity started cycling twice a month. So now she wasn't missing two days of school . She was missing four to five days of school a month. So our challenge was she was missing school and getting behind in her studies and we needed to remedy this.

So we felt like we were on this journey to fix it. And we ended up being in gastroenterology and three different gynecologists and urology. And then of course therapy, cause she's obviously making this up in her head, cause she just doesn't want to go to school. It was what these were saying.

And then, in January of 2018 her pain became daily. And in August of 2018 was her first suicide attempt with an overdose and she didn't harm herself, but it was her communication. It was her attempt to say I can't take it. She was going into private school that year and. She couldn't even [00:06:00] make it the first days of school, I didn't know what we were going to do.

We didn't know what we were battling. And the school was like, why don't you just take off that first semester and see if you can figure it out. So she was already a year behind because she had missed so much school because of Endo. And then she was starting a semester late as well. And Fortuitously, an office building mate introduced acupuncture to us.

I didn't know anything about Eastern medicine, and I'm like, I will try anything. And it was what got her back online. It's what dialed down her pain sufficient so that she could function. Her pain was always Most often days at a six on a scale of one to 10, never below a four   

so she still had some high pain days, but it was a little manageable with acupuncture and Chinese herbs and cannabis. So candidly, her story is published online at endo found. org. So you can read more of that journey. During COVID acupuncture was not considered an essential service. And so we didn't have access to that.

Source of pain relief because of her prior suicide attempt, she was labeled as, a pain seeker. And honestly, that was probably one of the worst things that she could have [00:07:00] done for our medical journey because nobody regarded her complaint, the complaint was pain. It was always pain.

That was always the issue. But, her therapists and her psychiatrists and everybody that surrounded us thought that, this was. psychological. And long story short during COVID, her pain was really exacerbated. She also didn't have the distractions of work or school because everything was shut down.

So her pain just kept escalating. And she attempted to manage her symptoms herself and started using recreational drugs. How old was She was 18. And we did finally get her laparoscopic surgery during COVID. And we really thought it was going to be like it's fixed.

They're going to get rid of it. But really we didn't know it was just the very beginning of our journey. The surgeon was pretty unkind and our post op meeting, he was like I don't know why she's still in pain. I cut it out. about went through the roof. And am in support of her surgeon and the practitioners she was working with.

We've communicated and their advocates and they have been very sensitive to her journey and that's impacted the care that [00:08:00] they give patients going forward. So I'm not embittered by saying that, but she was spending time with people to resource the things that she was after.

And it really created a rift in our relationship. We had a hard time getting pain relief because she was labeled as a pill seeker and we never really had anything for the pain. Long story short, she was not at my home. She had a bad night, a high pain night, and she had access to a gun. She injured sight of her pain.  

thinks she knew she was taking a risk, but I don't think that she thought she was going to take her life. After she passed, I was looking through her cell phone and she had messaged her cousin to say when I'm in the hospital.

So that was devastating. But the higher perspective that I've learned is that, I really do believe that Trinity was born to live 18 years and it begins. 

Robyn: Yeah and before we move on, because there are so much that comes after this, as you talked about the pain and endometriosis, I don't think most people understand that you can have that level of [00:09:00] pain.

It is not something that is discussed that often. Can you just talk about that and what people should know. 

Sarah: Yeah, and I think one of the challenges that it was for Trinity and I, Trinity was my oldest daughter. We went through a volatile divorce. She was a lot more my partner probably than my oldest daughter, she didn't want to be a burden to me. She saw that I was already spread so thin. I'm working. I've got three kids. I'm, not getting financial support from her dad. she saw it all. Endometriosis is a top 10 most painful condition in the world.

So it is a chronic pain condition and statistics are very obvious. Anybody with a chronic pain, regardless of the source of the condition it's a one in two chance that they're experiencing suicidal ideation. Depression is just hand in hand with chronic pain. nobody likes to be sick, right?

we're all thinking of this has to end. How can I live like this? So just imagine a chronic pain condition. So we used to register the pain on a scale of one to 10. I feel like that wasn't really helpful to me and really understanding her pain. When she died, I only knew two people with [00:10:00] endometriosis and After her passing and after participating with the endometriosis foundation, I now have an entire community, hundred women strong of women that I know with endo.

So I've been able to hear a lot of their stories and some women are just better at describing their pain. And I really do think that the graphic descriptions of the pain, talking about a hot searing coal on their side or pain and the women saying that feels like my uterus is put in a blender, I feel like the ability to be more descriptive with their pain was helpful.

I always believed Trinity's pain. but I also know I didn't understand it. 

Robyn: That kind of constant pain it's hard to understand having that all the time.   

Karen: And I can understand too, as an 18 year old who'd been living with this since she was 12, right?

So like her formative years of, is this going to be my life? And going into that surgery with so much hope that was going to make her better in some way. And coming out of that and let alone not feeling better, but also not feeling heard by the medical [00:11:00] community must have just been devastating for all of you, even as a mom, trying to figure out like, what is next?

Where do we go from here? So can totally feel the pain across every member of your family in that case. 

Sarah: And I will say the devastation really came as we were in our post op sessions. Because you were literally working with the top doctors in the state of Illinois. 

And they're like, we've been studying, researching endo for 30 years, thinking we're going to find the gene, and , they have treatment options, but there's no solution,   

And there's differing needs of care per patient. Both of our doctors, the medical chair and the medical director, had different perspectives.

And had a different approach to her same treatment. I'm like, how is this even possible? Every woman's body is unique and every woman's body responds differently to treatment. So I think also there was a frustration in one of our very last meetings with them. The despair was so apparent. I think the I don't know, we could try this kind of thing was just so despairing. 

Robyn: And when Trinity did [00:12:00] pass, didn't she leave some sort of note about how she felt? 

Sarah: yes.

some of her 

Robyn: comments I quoted in her story. Yeah, and that's what I'm getting to there was what I think would help people here is how she just couldn't be in her body anymore. 

Sarah: Yeah, she felt trapped. In her body, she felt like she could have done so much more, but for this body that was in such tremendous pain, 

Karen: and the fact that like you had said I can feel her as we're talking, and this frustration she must have had, How much potential she knew she had.

She was so smart and she just had it. , she had a family who loved her, . And yet this condition paralyzed her from growing. And knowing that at that age must have been so overwhelming. And so it's not that anyone can say we understand because we didn't walk her journey.

And yet I think there's, from a spirit level, I can certainly feel how I wouldn't have wanted to walk that walk either. 

Robyn: Wanted to have dealt with it for [00:13:00] years. Unrelenting. Never a day off. 

All: Yeah. 

Robyn: Not a single 

All: day off. 

Robyn: And then not knowing it could ever be alleviated.

And yet, because of her spirituality, also there's the humanness and on a soul level she knew that she was the soul in this body, and that this body wasn't not working for her. 

Karen: So can you talk at all, Sarah, About that day, and I think for those listening, actually want to hear about not the experience of her passing, but more about how that experience led you to the belief that she is still with you.

Sarah: Yeah, and I wanted to, point out that I've been on a spiritual journey my entire life. I wasn't born into a religious family, but since I was little itty bitty, I always prayed. Nobody taught me to pray. I always had a heart and an orientation towards God. And. when I was 20, I was given a study called experiencing God.

And it was about discerning his voice. And I, did the work [00:14:00] and I was able to discern. , that's when my automatic writing ability came into play. But I only knew it as one way that sometime it would just come through me and I knew what was happening. So I had over 20 years of journaling and being in prayer and hearing God's voice and feeling the guidance and being responsive to it.

And I also was not new to adversity. I feel like that also is really important. I didn't have a supportive family. I graduated high school year early just so that I could move out and be away from them. I moved out at 17 years old and never come back. I got married young. I had kids young.

I lost a business, lost homes, lost cars, lived with in laws, went through a volatile to divorce. I've been through a lot of stuff even before. Trinity's passing. So the day of her passing is actually a pretty special story to tell. I got up first thing in the morning and I was walking the dog and that's always a time of revelation for me.

And the revelation that day to me was that, walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. And what God was trying to say to me. [00:15:00] Was that, I've always felt alone in my life and that when you are in your spiritual self, there's no aloneness. You don't even think about it.

And the example that was given to me is like all the people who have near death experiences and they describe them, when they're in their spirit selves, they're not trying to come back. I know people have had near death experiences and have been frustrated. They've been sent back. lust of the flesh is also loneliness. So that's being in your lower nature is where loneliness even exists. And that was the revelation to me the morning that she passed, she hadn't passed yet.

it was a great morning. and I got home and the whole house was quiet. My brother and sister in law were in town and it was orientation day for high school for my other two daughters. And it was like little after seven in the morning, my middle daughter.

Came down the stairs and shouted mom and she doesn't talk like that. I was like what and she's look and she Let me read this text message from Trinity, I love you so much, but I can't do this anymore And then her best friend had seen her post on Instagram that I can't do this [00:16:00] pain anymore taken down this post.

So I had to actually didn't even have the address of her dad's home. So I had to contact a family member to get the address and then I sent 9 1 1. And then my middle daughter and I was like, let's go. So we're in Chicago.

She was in the suburbs. We were like an hour away. I called 1 was on Bluetooth. My daughter, Noelle called Trinity and she picked up the phone. So we're in route to Trinity and she picked up the phone. And I don't know if it's appropriate for me to say what she was saying, but on the call she's saying, I'm going to shoot myself. I'm going to shoot myself. And it was the same voice that I heard from her when she had her big meltdown back in October. The same sort of psychosis voice that I heard from her. And my mom voice came in to say, no, no Trinity, I'm on my way.

No, Trinity, I'll be there in 45 minutes. And I wish in some, I don't know if it would have mattered if I had done like a. I love you Trinity, I don't know, I, the mom mode kicked in and then we heard the shot fire. 

Robyn: didn't realize that you heard it.

Sarah: Yeah. Noelle and I were in the car on Bluetooth with [00:17:00] 911 on the phone with Trinity and she fired her shot and 911 said, was a shot fired? And we were like, yes, but me, I'm someone who doesn't want to panic. So I'm like, just hold on. We don't know what happened and I don't want my daughter to panic either.

So We didn't hear anything more from Trinity. We had to finish en route. The officers arrived probably within a minute of the shot being fired, but they had to break down the door. Noel tried to call her dad and text her dad like 20 times each, but he had, not slept well in the last couple of days and had his phone on silent.

So he didn't come to until they had broken in his front door. And they did transport her. So I thought to myself, where did she shoot herself? And I just didn't want to panic yet. I wanted to get to the hospital and see what was going on. 

Let's just get there. So we get to the hospital, they bring everybody into the family room and then the doctor came in and this is how he said it. He sat down, he goes, Trinity's dead.

And I was like, huh. I didn't believe it. I just, I couldn't conceive of it. I could not believe that would [00:18:00] be the outcome. I thought we just would have been managing a new circumstance that was created. I just, I could not, I did not believe that could be the outcome.

So anyway, I had to hold it together because he had to do with the coroner and it had to do with the detectives and, we all had to be interviewed and what happened. And I wanted to see her. I saw her, and she was all bundled up, but the real bizarre thing is, she was still warm to the touch, right?   

It just happened, anyway. Yeah, once I left the hospital, I fell apart. But then also once I stopped crying, I could hear her say, I'm okay, mom.

I'm okay, mom. I'm okay, mom. And then, family came in town and I was tired and it was late and I'm like, I'm just going to go to bed. And I went to bed and I was feeling like I just want somebody to hold me. And I remembered. The revelation I had that morning about loneliness and the lust of the flesh.

And I was like, okay, can you just please give me another perspective? And I felt like there was a steering wheel that was being turned, literally had to like manually change [00:19:00] my perspective. And then I heard her tell my story. And then I heard God say, I felt this presence. I have her. You need to let her go. And I said, how do I do that? And then she said, forgive me. And so I went to my phone. I thought this was my big spiritual moment. It was 1115 at night. I wrote down the experience in my phone and then I went to bed and then the next morning my alarm went off.

I had to walk the dog and I just didn't have it in me to get up and go. And I heard her say, let's go, mom. This big spiritual experience I learned in that moment that it wasn't over she was not gone. And then I also had a vision. I had a vision that she was overlooking her body and didn't want to leave and that God said to her, they're going to be okay.

So there was a lot that I even saw spiritually even before her services happened, and it was all like real new to me, 

I think so. 

Karen: Thinking like for people who are listening, maybe who've lost. Family members, tragically, who didn't have that experience. why do you think you [00:20:00] heard that? What made you open enough to hear it? And what do you think was that breakthrough for you? 

Sarah: So I think it is because I've had years of already being in A frequency for over 20 years already in a practice of daily journaling and prayer and receiving so I could already hear God's voice and I already would always yield to the guidance of it.

So I feel like you were just adding a voice to that. 

All: So I 

Sarah: feel like my channel was already open and I also feel really grateful because what a grace to a mom's grieving heart. What a sweet grace to a mom's grieving heart. 

Robyn: and you can hear obviously in your voice, it doesn't take away from missing her physically, right?

Missing that ability to actually see her, talk to her, text her, in the physical world. However. Your point being, you do still have this relationship. We all can feel her. we can communicate with her. It's just very different. And to process that all is part of the human [00:21:00] experience, of going through that.

But yes, 

Karen: to be able to share that with it. others who obviously when the grief and trauma hits you so hard, of course it's hard to hear anything but that. However, that opportunity, maybe not even in the moment. The day following a death, but to allow yourself the minute belief that person could be wanting to tell you and give you signs and give you those messages such a moment of hope.

Did it make you feel when you heard her when you're like? Oh my God, thank God this is real. 

Sarah: I was in too much shock. I feel like I was still just going through the motions. I feel like I was registering it, 

Karen: But you believed it was her. 

Sarah: Oh yeah, I knew for sure. I knew for sure that, but I don't know that I thought much about it otherwise.  

you both know and even in this last year, I just didn't really talk about this stuff. never really shared it with people, 

Robyn: Actually is something we want to talk about because when [00:22:00] you first started sharing it with other people within your faith community, which can you talk a little bit about how faith came into your world and how important it was for a period of time?

And that when you did start to share this. Things were different, which is really why you didn't talk to many people about this.   

Sarah: , I grew into having quite a religious past with my ex husband. Didn't celebrate Christmas, observed the Sabbath. I also experienced abuse by faith as a result of him. I feel like I just want to say this here in case anybody has been on this journey too.

I knew that There's a lot of things open to interpretation when it comes to faith and people have different, we'll call it a spectrum. . He had said things to Trinity and I that for example, he said that Trinity had endometriosis because I divorced him.

So she was bearing the weight of my sin for divorcing him. So just think about that's an example of sort of the abuse by faith or that he was solely [00:23:00] responsible for my salvation. Like I could not make it to heaven without him. Or he also said that Trinity had endometriosis because she was gay.

She identified as queer. She'd had a girlfriend and boyfriends. So part of the separation I have from my ex husband and, people who come from a faith based background, they're like casual Christians that I would say. And then there are people who are really like Bible believing.

So there's a spectrum there. And that was one of the reasons that I knew that trajectory that my ex husband was on was not that I was not aligned with it. And one of the verses was the fruit of the spirit. Is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self control.

And he was none of those things. So I already was, grappling with my faith.   

The whole of my faith and spirituality is hospitality and care and grace and forgiveness and the heart of God and that God is love. I think if God has a name, I think the name is love. I think love is the creative power anyway, spectrum, right? I had been part of a women's group when I lived in Southern California and in the aftermath of Trinity's passing, there was a study in revelations and I was in this community chat and there was [00:24:00] someone who was struggling with loss and I chimed in to say , they will communicate with you. 

. I've spoken with my daughter. So then this girlfriend of mine who was very close girlfriend of mine in Southern California. She messaged me privately. And said, that is not what you heard and you are not hearing those things that is of the devil.

you couldn't possibly be speaking with your daughter. And again, in that moment, I was not heartbroken that she said that to me because I really already understood that there's a spectrum and I know what my experience was. There was nothing anybody could say to me to shake me from the experience that I had.

What I really felt though, is how cruel that was of her to say that to a grieving mother also, because you've not had a lived experience like I have. Don't know what you're talking about. I felt like the audacity of her to even address me in that way, like via text, 

Robyn: right? And then having that kind of reaction especially if you have friends that are all in that same religion, it shuts you down.

And then, who else are you going to talk to [00:25:00] about this? 

Karen: It takes all the safety away from you being able to share. And by the way, share a message of hope. That could actually help people. That must have been so hard. So what did you do after that? 

Sarah: So that was really early on. In the aftermath of Trinity's passing, I had a good friend 

who had lost his son, and so , he sent me, this book, which was called Standing in the Shadow and then from this book, it recommended this book, which is The Fierce Goodbye, so for me, I was still like digging in the word, and looking for understanding, so in this book, there's a Bible scholar who researches Throughout and finds that there are instances of people taking their lives in the Bible and there's not condemnation associated with it.

and that was in fierce goodbye. Yeah. That was the first for those listening yeah. And so for me, that's where it started. I had a women's conference in January following her passing and there was a woman that I met who sent me a book and the book was my son in the afterlife conversations [00:26:00] from the other side and she shipped it to me, all of my resources, all of my education appeared.

It was. Literally walked up to my face. It was sent to me. It was recommended. if you're on a journey, you're going to know you're on a journey because everything is provided. So this book. Because it's talking about mediumship, this book is about a woman who's a medical doctor and she has five children and her son took his life.

They were non believers and after his passing, her husband and her father were having these encounters and they were saying, it's Erik, we know it's Erik. So she felt like she was being left out. So she engaged the help of a medium. Of course that word to me was lit. And that's how she started communicating with her son.

And so I received that book and I was thankful for that book, but it sat on my nightstand for months because it felt like my fingers were in a light on fire if I read through those pages. Okay. I think what it was that made me pick it up was that I also attended an event in New York and ended up talking to an artist [00:27:00] who I don't remember how we started talking about Trinity, but then he said, he goes, we choose our lives.

And I was like, what? 

Robyn: Isn't that interesting that. You get these little glimmers of something that resonates, Because here you are so well read in the Bible and so forth, and you are spiritual in your own right, and yet that had never come up really, I think that always surprises me. On this journey. I had not, it was probably, I don't know, not even 10 years ago in my own life that, that really resonated with me. What? 

Sarah: What? 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Sarah: Yeah. So for whatever reason, I got up the courage to pick up this book. I've always believed that questions are okay.

God's so big, there's not one question you could ask. He's going to be offended by. So if you're curious, you should ask. So I've always had that, I'm not doing anything wrong. So the early part of this book was a little to woo for me.   

we'll get there. But I will tell you the reason that this book was literally the inception to the [00:28:00] expanding of my knowledge and my receptiveness to it was because she described her experience with her son, and it was exactly identical to mine. 

In hearing my daughter. It was her like I hear her as her. I hear her voice. It's her intonation. It's her. But how I described her is that it's her, but she is knowing. That's my word.   

She's not afraid and she's not anxious and she's knowing and that was the word that I assigned to how I Received her or could hear her and it was the exact same word that this mother said about her son 

All: Who also 

Sarah: went through troubles who also was an anxious kid my compass has always been oriented towards truth So what I thought was so interesting about this book and it's conversations through a medium with him on the other side, and they're asking him how things work on the other side what was your transition like?

And is there hell? And it was quantum physics conversations. But the interesting thing to me was that I know scripture so well, and these people were not coming from a [00:29:00] faith based background. They didn't know they had no knowledge of scripture. They were self Proclaimed atheist. 

The words were not the same, but the language was the same, the heart It was all love. he said, when he passed and took his life, that he was afraid that he was going to be in trouble. He did something bad, but he was only received with love. They talk about healing centers. He literally goes on to describe and as I'm reading this, I have a very strong compass for truth and I can read it and I get in it.

So yeah. The idea that was introduced to me in this book was the idea of reincarnation. So I never believed in that before. That is not a Christian philosophy. He said that in his life that he left, he was battling with unresolved past life experiences that was culminated in that lifetime that was overwhelming and was part of.

His ultimate demise. so the concept of reincarnation, the concept of past lives, was introduced to me in that book. And it did, it gave me a lot of comfort as a mom. 

I don't believe in hell. That's another new belief that I have and they go [00:30:00] on to describe that too, about things that happen to people are based on their beliefs. And so after that book, that is when I was given another book on signs. Just talking about you can be your own medium. 

You don't need a medium. Everybody's a medium and hear all the examples and stories of people on their loved ones and their synchronicities and all this stuff. I felt like I was like in this gentle current of keep going. We have more for you.

Sarah: So then after I read that, I was open to watching the Netflix documentary series on Tyler. Henry, And that was actually super helpful to me because he did answer a lot of questions in that series that were on my mind, that I was curious about that just, calmed me with hearing that and, then I started looking into Dolores Cannon's work on past life regression. and here's me I'm an open person anyway. Then I'm just listening. . One thing that I wanted to say too, in the aftermath of Trinity's passing.

I read a book, 90 minutes in heaven. And this is a guy who's a pastor who got in a [00:31:00] car accident and was literally pronounced dead. They had the cover over him for 90 minutes. his heart stopped. was another guy who came along and felt prompted to pray for him. So went and prayed for him and literally he was dead for 90 minutes and then came to and then this is the story of his experience of 90 minutes in heaven that took him a couple years to actually tell about it because it was so intimate and crazy.

And the pain he went through in the aftermath and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So anyway, the thing that I knew that was true about Trinity's passing is that if God wanted her here, she would have been here. If God wanted her here, there would have been circumstances or opportunities to have intervened. So that's why I was convinced that she was really born to live 18 years.  

 and I felt at peace with that. I oscillate from my higher vibration of understanding the bigger picture and then also the sadness of grappling with, what it could have showed up. But anyway, I just wanted to say that because. That was also really helpful in my journey to and then I was given another book which is, oneness. 

It's by Rasha. The thing also that blows my [00:32:00] mind about all these books and stuff is that this stuff has been around, like all the copyrights on here, like the 80s, the 90s, the early 2000s. I've read stuff from like the 50s, early 1900s.

Sarah: it blows my mind that I'm happening upon this knowledge right now, and it's brand new and fresh to me. And this stuff has been around pre internet, like who knew this? What? That's what blows my mind. I even just said it to Robyn recently because my recent book that I finished, Radical Forgiveness, , that was one that was copy written in the eighties.

Karen: What is this question? They say that when the student Is ready, the teacher 

Robyn: here. Oh, that's so good. That's so true, Karen. Yeah, and it is 

Karen: If somebody handed you that book, Years ago you've been like, no, that doesn't resonate. 

Sarah: 110%, if Trinity hadn't passed and I had not had the encounter that I know that I had with her spiritually, I would not have been open.  

to this knowledge. I know that for sure. her passing opened me up to this trajectory. So oneness actually was really profound for me because they talk about the choice of giving up your body. 

Karen: [00:33:00] What does that mean, the choice of giving up your body and how does that resonate 

Sarah: I can find the page   

Okay. So if you don't mind, I'll read it and again, this comes with the higher perspective that there's a greater plan and that, our souls really do come here in each, incarnation for the purpose of learning and expansion and growth.

And sometimes when their lessons are up, they're ready to go. And sometimes they choose. To be finished. This is on page 172 and 173. When the circumstances are poignant, the invitation is compelling and the tendency to overlook the lesson is progressively less likely know that in such instances, the individual in question has created those circumstances at a soul level.

It may well be in the highest interest of the individual in question to allow the drama to play out to a seemingly disastrous conclusion. For that being as a soul will be able to reconstruct the life history after departure from physical form and perceive the common threads from a heightened perspective and many will choose [00:34:00] seemingly violent exits from this lifetime in order to have experienced an example of a life issue that cannot be ignored.

These summary experiences are profound opportunities for the beings in question to bring to a conclusion life themes they would not be able to master in a less dramatic way. The opportunity for those of you who will bear witness to such events is to be able to honor the perfection in the process of another and to resist the temptation to intervene and attempt to save someone from what he is trying to achieve.

As a soul yet to refrain from saving another from his perfectly created lesson would be the higher gift. 

Robyn: Wow. That resonates. And I'm sure Karen, even for you, who has experienced suicide in her life, that is. That's why I wanted to hear it. 

Karen: There's a huge lesson in, that.

And as a mother, I can talk from a suicide journey as a sister, but I think as a mother who you just want life for your child more than [00:35:00] anything. so to be able to get your head around that lesson that they are teaching you and that you can't intervene. In that lesson that they have come here to carry out for themselves.

Ooh, that's big. 

Sarah: And then the further knowledge from that is that, I now also believe that there are soul contracts and pre birth planning and that we travel in soul groups and that we agreed on it. Trinity and I, prior to coming here, both agreed that this would be the life that we would live together.

that's also the higher level of perspective and peace, that it was planned, that we agreed to it. And 

Robyn: that you were at a point where you could hear that. You were at a point where you could really take that message in and see how that applies. To your life and everyone else's, but you had to be in that place to be able to hear that.

Oh, yeah. And for those who are wondering [00:36:00] soul plans and rebirth plans, we actually have talked about those things on the podcast before. in both Karen and in my life, just having that understanding really can change everything, that perspective changes.

Your life. 

Sarah: And so maybe the segue from there is that, when I did start listening to Dolores Cannon and I read her book and then I was given Journey of Souls and you and I were already friends at this time, Robyn. So this is. This is my early in the year kind of journey.

And because of Lizzi that you had on your show, who uses Dolores Cannon's method, I gifted myself for my birthday, a session with her for past life regression, energy healing. And I will say that, I don't know what happened there. We went through four different past lives. I was both male and female, but.

The questions that were answered for me. And then the energy healing that she did again, I don't understand it at all, but I think it was a huge catalyst [00:37:00] for me. I feel like there was literally a blanket of grief that was lifted from me. I had also had this weird pressure in my chest that I'd been carrying since Trinity passed.

And she identified it in my solar plexus and removed it and it never came back. So I really do feel like that was clearing of just the grief and the hardship and the sorrow just to lighten my load. and then I read your soul's plan and this was recommended to me by Robyn and that I feel like that book is so exceptionally well written and so profound and so healing.

All the chapters are alcoholism and Physical illness and all these issues that you think, wow, that's not really for me or accidents. And that's not chapter on death of a loved one, but all the chapters applied, and all of them are profound.

Oh, and I have to back up too. Before my energy healing, the three of us had a session and that's when I disclosed to you guys that I could do automatic writing and I'm like, I don't tell anybody that   

what is 

Karen: your definition of that, Sarah? For [00:38:00] people who don't know what that 

Sarah: is. Okay. So once upon a time when I first knew that I could do this in my journaling when I would composition writing is you're getting everything out of your mind. I could feel like energy coming through me and taking over and writing and I would actually receive instruction.

I would get dates and times But I never talked about what it was that one time I was listening to a music artist who was talking about automatic writing and channeling their work. And I'm like, Oh, that's what it is. Automatic writing. That's what I can do. But I just tucked that away inside. And then in talking with you guys, I disclosed that I have the ability to do that. And then you two were both like, Oh, you need Celestia conversations. Then you were like, have you ever thought to ask questions? I was like, what? I always just waited for it to come through.

I knew it would come, but I never knew that I could ask or have a two way conversation until you both opened that opportunity for me. So before my past life regression session and energy healing, I had just [00:39:00] started with Asking questions and Trinity even thanked Robyn for that, for opening up a dialogue with me in our session because she was there with Lizzi So this I feel has been exceptionally transformational for me. And then I guess I'll also mention, I had a chance. Lisa, who is also on this platform and I got a chance to do one of her courses on mediumship and intuitive living like I know she disclosed a couple more of my spirit guides, and I've always known that my grandpa Sam has been around.

I've known it my whole life. And communicate on the regular with Trinity with my dad who passed a year ago . And then also Betty is one of my spirit guys that we have out and it's amazing to me because I can feel the energy shift, from person to person, it's very, they're clearly defined energies.

Robyn: also had the opportunity to be part of that past life and I feel like there was and knowing you, there was so much revealed to [00:40:00] you in those past lives that really helps to better understand your journey now, who you are, where so much of your fierceness it was like as your friend, but you have those images in your mind now, and you go back to that, Your past life, wouldn't you say? 

Sarah: Oh, yeah. And it was very helpful that it was recorded too, because. What I remembered in the immediate aftermath versus going back to it a couple months later, it's just very interesting what comes through 

Karen: Sarah, were there any insights that you got from any of those experiences on the connection that you and Trinity have?   

Sarah: So here's the thing. Something that Lisa pointed out to me, when she, did a reading for all of us at the end of our course. And I didn't think to ask her about Trinity. she goes, it's so telling that you didn't think to ask about Trinity because you talk to her all the time.

So my communication with Trinity is so Daily that I sometimes forget some of the poignant events, but , Trinity spoke through [00:41:00] Lizzi and asked about us playing games. Cause we've always played games, card games, board games.

She said that you need to have more fun in this house. Lizzi was like games like Board games. What's she talking about? I think she just missed us laughing. We've not had light hearts because it's heavy.

Robyn: she is so here right now and she is go mom, she's just you are going to help so many people by having this conversation and she is with you and you are such an intuitive. As we can all hear and see, there is so much purpose in who you are and why this is happening to you and for you, and for so many of us to be a part of the journey with you because, most people going through these kinds of experiences aren't as open and can receive and then translate.

What they're here and you 

Karen: are, I want to just add to you, even the interview that you did with the 

Sarah: Endometriosis [00:42:00] foundation, they call it endo TV. 

Karen: What was so amazing to me was the comments That came as a result 

go back, 

girl, and read. I'm telling you, there were so many that were just like, thank you for sharing this story. I too am going through this and feel this every day like it was as if you opened up a channel for people to be to just to exhale that somebody else understood the pain that they were going through and that in itself is such a gift.

Sarah: I have a handful of friends that have said because of me telling Trinity story that they have been able to acknowledge now that they have a chronic illness. So it's just the acknowledgement of the suffering and the loss of somebody because they have felt that same way too.

One on one privately, people tell me all the time that when I'm laid out on in bed for a week and can't function, I think about taking my life too. I think the other thing that's so important about me telling Trinity's story is that one, I am not at risk by telling her [00:43:00] story. It is not safe, not in 2025, not in any year prior to disclose suicidal ideation in a medical environment.

It's not, I grew up very honest. My kids are very honest. So we were very honest with our practitioners and it was weaponized against us instead of getting help. And so it's important for me to say it.

I don't suffer any risk by telling my daughter's story. And because she passed, she's very plainly said, I'm in so much pain. I want to die. women can't say those things. there's no risk to me saying that, which is why it's so important. I've learned to tell her story.

I got to speak last year at endo found patient days and they didn't really know what to do. Cause it's a controversial topic. They don't want to associate endo and suicide, Cause that's not the end of. but it is a reality. So they want to support it, but just a little, So they put me in a breakout session, which meant other sessions were happening at the same time. Almost everybody attended my session. There was standing room only. That is how big the interest is in this topic, because that's how [00:44:00] much these women are suffering.   

Karen: I think about how alone they are. 

Sarah: there's no cure. It doesn't go away. It's an inflammatory condition. Even if you have excision surgery and maybe find relief of symptoms, there's still going to be co maladies, co conditions that develop because it's an inflammatory condition. 

Karen: So people come back and say to you how could this possibly have been . Someone's choice that they would go through this and then end their life. I feel the message can be for those who can hear it. It's yes. Opening up that recognition that this is a serious condition that needs help and that it's not in somebody's head.

And all of the emotional and mental issues that are going on with it, even if you can push that down the road a bit so that the medical community can understand that make that part of the support that they're giving women in that condition. That's huge. You are saving lives in that sense.

Sarah: And I also learned later that even to have a therapist. Who [00:45:00] understands endometriosis like I would have never thought to have that be a need but if they don't understand endometriosis, they're not an effective therapist for you and the challenge and you know of more than 40, 000 gynecologists in the United States.

There's only 100 gynecologists that are familiar with endo and there's even fewer surgeons probably like 40 surgeons in the nation. That can do excision surgery for endometriosis. So like it just is such a narrow pool of help and support that's available.   

Robyn: Wow. And, again, what has been uncovered from these different experiences, you are exactly where you're meant to be, even as hard and tragic and all the things because what mother who lost her daughter would have necessarily contacted the endo foundation and wanted to be a part of it and be brave enough to tell their story and connect those dots for people.

And then, as Karen is saying, changing other people's lives in that sense, you are exactly where you're meant to be, which we know you were a [00:46:00] doctor. Yes. And it's really interesting when you think about where Sarah is and Sarah it's not like you come from a medical background, you are a fierce executive and an entrepreneur and all the things. But yet you can speak and stand in those situations now from a medical perspective too. It's even having this conversation and making it as public as possible is going to help so many people and going back to having this ongoing communication and relationship with Trinity on the other side. What advice would you give to others who have lost someone in their close to and may feel a presence, but they're afraid.

To admit that or even try and connect. What would you say to them? 

Sarah: Yeah. I feel the evolution of it all comes in really gradually. Biggest thing that Lisa tries to to impress upon us and then I feel is a constant. [00:47:00] Affirming to trust yourself to trust what it is that you're seeing that it's not a coincidence.

It's a synchronicity. If you're picking up coins or you're finding feathers or you're seeing butterflies or you're seeing angel numbers early on, I always saw seven sevens was an angel number that I saw for a very long time. Then I had a best friend who saw ones. And so we started Okay.

Texting each other every time we saw sevens and ones. And then I had another friend who saw way more angel numbers. I'm like, I don't see more angel numbers. And then I started like opening up myself to be like, oh, now I'm seeing, fours.

Oh, I'm seeing threes. Oh, I'm seeing twos. So it is about. paying attention. It is about recognizing. at that license plate tha 

It's communication. So just believing it. Honestly, this book, Celestial Conversations, which was written by Karen's mother, tells you everything that you need to know about just communicate genuinely, and then allow the communication to come through you.

But believe it. 

Karen: and it can be part of your daily practice. [00:48:00] Like your word earlier is that trust and whether you share it with somebody else or not is totally up to you.

But I think people will be amazed with. the level of information and communication affirmation that they can receive if they allow themselves. Absolutely. And whatever comes through. 

Robyn: And I want to just even bring up, you talked about awareness and the numbers that you just said in this last answer that you were giving, you kept saying that you were seeing sevens and that your friend was seeing ones.

And 1117 is my number. And so I just want someone listening or watching to understand it's even those moments for me to know that's my sign for being exactly where I'm supposed to be. And that comes from my dad and my spirit team and all that. So it's even once you have this in practice, it comes to you all the time.

I [00:49:00] wouldn't normally say that out loud, but because we're talking about it, I feel the need to point it out. and you are the messenger, That's so cool. The other thing I wanted to say 

when you talk about God, I just would love to, for those listening that are not necessarily religious, and for those that are we asked you what God meant to you, and I agree. God is love. And we can all use terms like God or universe or Buddha, whatever you're comfortable with. But when you are talking about God, Is that a certain voice?

And now that you've been through this, what, in addition to God being love, do you also see that as like this channel of spirit? 

Sarah: Yeah, so in that book, about channeling Erik book. Conversations from the afterlife he explained how We're all a part and piece of the creator we're literally all a part in a piece And then honestly, after working with Lizzi and her talking about our higher self and connecting with our higher self I do believe that my connection is with my [00:50:00] higher self because we're all a part of a piece, So source love. I feel like God is just an easy word to use. , I 

Robyn: wanted to clarify that for those listening, because I think it can mean different things to different people. And so that makes sense. And 

Karen: how the evolution is still in line with the original idea of God. That you were taught. It's just evolved and actually expanded. That's right. 

Robyn: Which is beautiful. 

what's your practice now? As you're still in this process of acceptance and of where things are now, what does your spiritual practice look like now?

Sarah: I'm only about three and a half years post Trinity passing and I think Lizzi actually said that five years is a good sort of middle marks. I'm not even there yet. And I talked to a mom who lost her daughter like 10 years prior. I'm like, does it ever get better? And she was like, no.

So I don't know where I'll be in another five years or whatever, but obviously growing. So my spiritual practice has grown, and I think that's something that I've also learned on this journey is that everybody has their own. I loved hearing about what [00:51:00] you do, and I really like hearing how it develops.

So for me, something that I've held onto I start my day with meditation. I do 15 minutes of music meditation. That was something that Lisa taught me. I'm able to visualize things. So I'll ask, what do I need to know? What would you like to show me? I'd like to receive. So Sometimes I get something that's really clear and sometimes my brain is too cluttered and I don't, but I'll just write down whatever those thoughts are.

And then I'll take a minute or two on just being grateful, things that I'm grateful for. And then also forgiveness. Then I'll go into visualization. So mostly that's affirmation for myself, for my hopeful, life partner and for my business.

So mostly that's powerful affirmation statements. And then I'll ask for help. So whatever's on my mind and I'd like help with this, or I'd like to make sure the girls, follow through with this, just a brain dump of things I'm thinking about that I'd help with.

And then I'm real specific to ask, like something that I'm meeting in the next 48 hours, like communication from certain people or a meeting to go really well, or a result [00:52:00] to occur. And That I learned from the book E squared. And then also there was a documentary on Netflix.

I didn't want to forget his name, anyway, he talked about sending love to people. And then that's like the energy and the frequency is like sending love and vibration to people. And then I go into my council. So after that I talked to my higher self . And then I talked to Trinity.

And then I talked to my dad and then I talked to my grandpa Sam and then I talked to Betty and then that's how I start my day. And then at the end of the day, I'm usually tired. So I keep it really simple. And Robyn gave me the word that this is called grounding. At the end of the day, I just record the good gifts of the day. So everything good that happened in the day that I can think of or recall, and I keep it really brief. 

And then I hand the floor over to Trinity again. So I closed my day with Trinity as well. And then that's it. 

Karen: Can I ask how your other daughters are doing now and how do they react to this belief that you have that Trinity is still around? Do they feel that [00:53:00] way? 

Sarah: Thank you for asking for that because I feel like something that I've done well in the aftermath of Trinity's passing is that there just was a declaration of no shame. So we talk about all of it at any time it comes up and whatever you want to talk about.

Just having no shame around, her life and the story. Anyone with children know that your children are all very different people.

So the way they process and are oriented towards spiritual things is very different. I share a lot of resources with my youngest daughter. My middle daughter. I think the spiritual perspective just comes really easy to her because I don't think she really questions it. 

 We keep it just really open. It took me a minute to talk about my past. life regression because the challenge also is that their dad is still very religiously minded and lives in a very different world.

Sarah: . So I was a little careful with that. I don't think that they think that I'm weird or anything and they see me live my life, they see that I'm very open minded, they see that I discuss all things.

feel like it's the best opportunity for them to be receptive and however it is that they're going to expand on their journeys. 

Karen: And it may take them time as well. They may have to come to [00:54:00] their own crossroads before they're even open again. And they realize that this experience was tucked away for them to really learn from when they're ready.

I was just visiting my brother last week and he said, I can't believe it, but I feel like it took me 10 years to really talk about Cindy. I just filed it away because it's how our family always was. Even with my mom writing this book, I think she felt like she didn't want to.

infuse that experience and her perspective into us. We had to be ready to receive that in our own way. And that's why I'm always curious on how the siblings take it. Because in my family, that was, we all had our different versions of mom's a little bit out there, not sure about what her letters to Cindy are all about.

Until when I read her book for the first time I was like, oh, That's what that is. And that was the first time it really opened me up, even to receiving that as a possibility that those conversations could really exist. so you [00:55:00] gotta live your truth. For your children, And let them take whatever it is that's relevant for them. And then when they're ready, they'll hopefully be ready to do whatever they want to with that information and have that connection again with their sister.

Sarah: Yeah. . here's one thing also that Trinity said to me, Trinity said, you had to lose me to gain me.

I'm with you now more than ever. So that's a tough. We talked about like the oscillation between okay, spiritually I can make sense of this and I get that concept, but we do, we miss her in the physical, like she was a shelter. 

So I've encouraged it to talk to her and that you can, 

Robyn: and I think as you get older. You expand that, right? 

And whether they want to take that from you or you will be able to give them these resources to just have more communication, even if it's not a hundred percent through them, but through others it will be there. You're walking the walk. 

Karen: And to that, I think the only other thing I wanted to ask we always talk about the magic that the more we understand.

The more [00:56:00] we understand about why we're really here and why all these things happen to us. But I would love to hear too, there are the realities, have you going through this grief journey? How do these tools that you've picked up along the way? I'm just thinking again about other moms or other people who are going through this grief journey.

We always love to say there's all these wonderful things and all these wonderful possibilities. We're all at different places on our belief journey, Of all of this. So what would you say to those that are really in it and need a little bit of ray of sunshine, maybe from somebody who's walked the walk ahead of them?  

Sarah: So I feel like I'm good at feeling the feelings. I'm good at allowing myself to sit in my emotion I like to process my emotion. It's okay to have a heavy day. I run the New York city marathon for fundraising for the endometriosis foundation.

I've done it for the past three years and I help out with their patient days and I help out with their blossom ball. And, I love that community, but not for one [00:57:00] second when I'm there or when I'm running, do I ever forget the reason that I'm doing it?

Yeah, it's heavy and it's hard it's not really easy to be on front street. I just know that I'm willing to do it. part of why I'm having the journey. I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to say it and give it a voice. And take the risk. 

Robyn: We are so grateful for you and for you sharing your heart and your journey with us.

And really, I personally am in awe of you because you are so courageous. You are so brave and you are such a force in this world. And you were before Trinity and you are with Trinity on the other side. And as a partner and spirit, you are teaching all of us so much. So thank you. Thank you for being so open and open to all that is coming in, because we have so much to learn from you and with you.

I just love you. So thank you. 

Karen: Thank you. I just love you for [00:58:00] speaking your truth. Your journey, but also Trinity's journey and the fact that, for those of us who've been on this suicide, we become part of this club that we never want to be part of, but I just so love the fact that you are willing to shine the light on that and not put it in the darkness.

I think those who have crossed over in that way, only they understand exactly what has happened. And so for those of us who are here. To not judge that or judge the families around that because it's enough of a weight to bear and the fact that they've lost that person. So I just really appreciate that because I know it means stepping into that light where there can be a lot of judgment there.

So I stand with you. Thank you. 

Robyn: And thanks to Trinity too. such a light and such a force as well. There's no coincidence as we've said that you plan this life together. And she continues to really teach all of [00:59:00] us and be a leader for us. And I can feel that. So thank you, Trinity.

And I did want to mention that if you or someone you know is in need of crisis services, please call the Lifeline, which provides 24 7 free and confidential support for people in distress, and that number is 1 800 273 8255 to learn more about endometriosis resources and support, visit endofound. org. And for everybody listening and who heard all of the books that were mentioned, we will have those listed. And Sarah actually has a whole list of some more books that she provided. So we're going to make sure we'll have those in our show notes. Be sure and check those out if you're interested 

You can learn more about Sarah and all that she's working on at thescratchpantry. com. And look out for Sarah.

She's a part of Seeking Center And so we know we're going to be speaking and working more together in the future. And we're just so grateful for you. [01:00:00] Thank you.