Rewriting Your Money Story: The Mindset Shifts You Need Now - Episode 150

If money were a person, what would your relationship be like—friendly, strained, avoidant?  In this powerful conversation, we dive into the emotional and energetic dynamics of money with money expert, New York Times bestselling author, and intuitive guide, Ellen Rogin.

Ellen's mission is to help us shift from fear and stress to confidence, flow, and abundance when it comes to money. She’s back on Seeking Center with a brand-new book, Messages from Money, where she shares insights that can transform the way we see, interact with, and attract financial prosperity.

We’ll also be exploring:  

• The Message from Money that Ellen downloaded for all  
• The Money Talks Conversation Cards, a tool to help you break the silence around money and spark meaningful discussions
• How your relationship with money affects all other relationships in your life—romantic, family, business, and beyond
• The power of financial belief management and why your thoughts shape your money reality
• A simple but profound exercise: How are YOU showing up for money?

We’re diving into how improving your relationship with money can enhance every aspect of your life.

Ready to rewrite your money story? Press play and start shifting your financial energy! 

MORE FROM ELLEN ROGIN

Visit messagesfrommoney.com to: 

• Grab Ellen’s new Book: Messages from Money (Available now!)
• Try the Money Talks Conversation Cards: A tool to help you spark eye-opening money discussions in your life
• FREE Download: Get a free copy of Great with Money at ellenrogin.com/goodies

Follow Ellen on Instagram: @ellenrogin

Check out Ellen's other Seeking Center episode: Messages From Money: What It’s Trying to Tell You

Listen now wherever you get your podcasts! Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review if you loved this episode. 

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Visit theseekingcenter.com for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:54 Rewriting Your Money Story: The Mindset Shifts You Need Now

Transcript

Robyn: If money were a person, what would your relationship be like friendly strained, avoidant. Today, we're diving deep into the emotional and energetic dynamics of money with money expert, New York Times bestselling author and intuitive guide Ellen Rogin.

 Ellen's been on here before and her mission is to help us transform our relationship with money from one of fear and stress to one of confidence, flow, and abundance. Since she was last on the show, she's written a new book, Messages from Money, where she shares powerful insights that completely shift the way we view, interact with, and attract financial be discussing her Money Talks conversation cards, designed to help us break the silence around money have more meaningful discussions about our financial lives. And with Valentine's Day around the corner, we're exploring how improving our relationship with money can also enhance all our relationships, romantic, family, business, and beyond.

So are you ready to rewrite [00:01:00] your money story? Let's dive in. Hi, Ellen. 

Ellen: So excited to be back with you. You always have so much wisdom to share, cause I think for so many people, me included, money is a topic that we don't always love to talk about.

 So let's make it 

Robyn: fun. And we were saying right before we got on, I can feel the energy of money, honestly, wanting to talk today. I think it has a lot to say to all of us because almost everybody has some sort of very tangible and dynamic relationship with 

Ellen: Yes, for sure. We do have a relationship with money and I don't think people are very conscious of that or consistently conscious. Of how that relationship is really impacting every area of their lives. 

Robyn: Why do you think our relationship with money is so emotionally charged and what can we do and untangle around that?

Ellen: It is fraught with emotion. Some are really wonderful and positive and some are stressful and [00:02:00] difficult. It can relate to how we value ourselves, how we judge other people. I see this relationship starting for many of us at conception, really, from what we've seen and heard growing up, it could be ancestral, if there's financial trauma that's happened in past generations, that can flow down to how we are relating to money and then plus actual life experiences that can impact our thinking and experience.

our decisions around money. And I think the part in terms of how can we start to unravel this a bit is to be aware that you and money are a thing. So my mom used to say this when she'd be talking about couples. She'd be like, Oh, Joan and Bill, they're a thing. You and money are a thing. we anthropomorphize money all the time.

When we say things like, Oh, don't let your money, don't outlive your money, make your money work [00:03:00] hard for you. And yet I think that we also. Look at what money can do for us, but not how we're showing up in that relationship. And if you can start to think about how you are in that relationship with money, I think it's very helpful.

 And actually, if you look at your money, like a romantic relationship, even it's a interesting and fun question to ask, not how is money showing up for you, but how are you showing up for money? Are you a really trusting, caring, loving partner? Last summer I gave a workshop to some women business leaders in Chicago, and one of the women there said, I have a promiscuous relationship with money.

I want it there when I want it. It's like a hookup with money and otherwise I don't really pay attention to it. Ooh. Yeah. So how are you showing up for money as a partner? I don't think anyone has ever asked me that 

Karen: question. And you know what, as you were talking, Ellen, I was just doing a little exercise with [00:04:00] myself and I was writing down the words that come to my head when I think of money.

And the first thing I thought of is I was trained never to talk about it. Just not something you share with. Friends, relatives, it's just a taboo subject. And then I also wrote down the words like selfish, luxury, sinful, slave to money, scarcity. Like those are the words that came to my mind.

Like I didn't filter myself. And I just wonder if anybody else listening is feeling like that too. It's you're almost trained to have this fear. The fear is really the first feeling that. Many of us have when we think about it. So that's why I think this is such a big subject for us because it's a leap of consciousness that you're almost asking us to make.

Ellen: And Karen, you're not unusual to be having heard or feel like we shouldn't talk about money. There was an empower study that found that 67 percent of people don't talk about money with anybody, not their spouse, not their friends, nobody. And yet the same people who [00:05:00] responded to the survey said that, and talking about money creates generational wealth and it's a good thing.

So it's not that logically it doesn't make sense. sense to talk about money, but we're trained and indoctrinated really to not talk about it. 

Robyn: Yeah. And so when you do ask that question, how do you show up for money? I think that's super interesting because what came to me is that as I've gotten older, I have become more responsible with money.

And In my earlier years, like twenties and thirties, I would say it felt like more fun, but I wasn't really being super conscious. And now I think I'm able to have fun, but I'm definitely showing up for money in a more responsible way because I am really thinking about what I'm spending on, where it's going, where I have to say, I didn't, so I just never thought about it and so I'd be [00:06:00] really curious what others listening think about that.

How have you shown up? And maybe it's the other way around for you, like every person has such a unique relationship. With money. So It makes you think about it in a different way, 

Ellen: And there's some people that hang on so tightly or the worry part. Like you have to worry. worry. Yes. 

Karen: that speaks to me personally. I just feel like in general talk about ancestral that was. Always the way, but I think even now, if we were just talking earlier about the energy of this time right now, even with this change in politics, in the country, there was like, Oh, my God, what's going to happen with the stock market are a lot of jobs going to be lost or what's going to go on globally in the economy and how's it so it just feels like You're at the mercy in some ways of the global economy and like where you fit into it, let alone how you are personally managing it.

So always just feels like such a Big thing 

Ellen: that's surrounding you and it's like with many other things in our lives. We can only control what we can control, which is how we're [00:07:00] looking at things. 

All: And 

Ellen: I think we'll talk about this in a little bit, but this kind of conscious community, which You two have created, I feel like it's incumbent on people who are more aware and conscious to be standing in their confident power around money to be doing good with it in the world.

Because some of the ways that good was being done before where big institutions or governments were doing it. It feels like it might be collapsing a bit. So it's upon us to make a difference and to feel comfortable doing that is a lot about us feeling comfortable and knowing we're okay with money.

Robyn: That really leads to talking about since the last time we talked to you, you have this new book called Messages from Money. What inspired you to write that? And how do you feel like the insights from that can help further people transform their financial lives? 

Ellen: I know a lot of my work in the world is to help [00:08:00] reduce people's angst about money.

And what I know from speaking to extremely wealthy people and people with lesser means, it's not about the money that causes. the anxiety. Sometimes it is, right? Sometimes there's trauma that happens and people have lost things. So I don't want to brush over that, but often, when I've talked to people with hundreds of millions of dollars and they're still worried, they're going to lose everything and not be okay.

Like we know that doesn't, logically make any sense, but it's true. That's how they feel. And I think that's hard for people who don't have much money to believe that money isn't the solution to things. So the book came about through realizing I had a. framework that could be helpful for people to have a better relationship with money.

My last two books before this, I had coauthors for, and I like to think that money was my coauthor for this book. So money wrote the foreword. And that's one of the ways that I communicate with money is through [00:09:00] journaling and this book just flowed in terms of ideas that could be helpful for people and what is very rewarding for me.

So our other book picture prosperity was a New York times bestseller. It's a great book, lots of tools. I've had more feedback from this book that it's actually made a bigger difference for them. And I think it's shorter. It's written no matter how much money or how little you have. It's speaking to how we think about money and provides tools like how do you lower stress and how do you raise your intuition level?

so I felt like there was more to say. There's a lot of personal finance books out there, but I don't know that there's as many helpful how to think about money books out there. 

Robyn: And I also think too, and I don't know from the time that you had released the other book, And then this one you do sessions with money that you call messages from money and we know how helpful that they've been in our [00:10:00] own lives.

And so I wonder too, had you been doing those prior? Was that part of? 

Ellen: No, that was probably since, I don't know, 2019, 2020. I've been doing one on one really intuitive money readings for people. And a lot of the stories and the learning. Obviously I've changed details so no one would know who I'm talking about in the book.

It's confidential. Ended up in the book. There's also messages from money that flowed through. as I was doing sessions for people that I knew would be helpful for more people, those are in the book, money mantras are in the book, which is something that people who do sessions with me get their own money mantra at the end.

And there's some of those that are just. generally helpful. And those ended up in the book as well. 

Karen: So for those who are listening, or who might be like doing a little bit of this head turn wait a minute here, we're talking about money, almost like the spiritual collaborator, potentially in our lives.

How did you come to that Ellen? And how do you explain [00:11:00] that to people who might? Not really understand what you mean by that, let alone be able to resonate with that. 

Ellen: Yeah. when I was a practicing financial advisor, which was for about 28 years, I think I always had a knowing if someone was going to be okay or not with their money.

I just knew I didn't realize that was my intuition. I just thought I have experience or I listened differently, which that was part of it as well. And then I had an experience when I was at a workshop where all of a sudden I was talking as if I was money. And it freaked me out a little bit because that was not, I believe in the energy of things, but I hadn't experienced me being able to provide that.

In and of itself. And then I just started experimenting with good friends Hey, let's do this and it's really evolved. And what's so affirming for me, as I said, a lot of my work is helping to reduce stress or have people get clarity around money. I get reports, [00:12:00] sometimes days, but often weeks or months after I've done a session for someone, how it is shifted.

Their relationship with money for the better. And I don't know with my CPA CFP background, how that happened. It is an energetic thing and yeah, and it is a little weird. I've known you both for a while now. I was super secretive about this for a long time. It was a secret page on my website.

Yes. Now in addition to doing intuitive money readings, I speak in front of big rooms of financial advisors, super traditional. And I started just opening up, I'll say things like, Hey, I talked to money and money talks back to me. And then I'll say something like, look, if that doesn't make sense to you, it's just a helpful metaphor.

Also, We have a relationship with money. And one time when I was journaling money's what are you embarrassed to talk about me? It's like that boyfriend or girlfriend you have that you don't want to tell your family about. And I was like, oh no. [00:13:00] And I realized I had a, shed some of that old identity to one that was more helpful.

Okay. 

Robyn: having known you for a while, seeing this evolution. Obviously when you were on the podcast last time, you were willing to talk about it, but you hadn't really talked about that. that often, and so to now know you have a book called Messages from Money.

 It shows how far you've come in being open about it. 

Ellen: I appreciate you saying that. I hadn't actually thought about that. Yeah, and it explains what I do here. And I've had really traditional financial advisors, like big firm, people you would not think would have any spiritual or conscious.

Awareness, maybe I'm judging and I don't know, first of all, but second of all, be like, oh, this is so helpful and. That was also affirming that there's lots of people open to these you all know, this is your work in the world, how many more people are open, whether they're secretive about the fact they [00:14:00] have crystal sitting on their desk, or they're really open to it.

Karen: Since we had our last conversation with you, Robyn, I've literally been working on this because it does. It lightens immediately your feeling about money when first of all, you give it this sense of it's energy, right? It's an energetic force that can work good for you and not, be an adversary.

But then also if you can. Give it a personality even in your mind, And like a visualization of like maybe what it looks like and how it could almost be a spirit or an angel or a guide or something working with you to teach you versus be this terrible thing we don't want to talk about.

So it helps a lot because it just gives it a different perspective, 

Robyn: we talk about the energy of money and our relationship with money all the time and really because of you. And one of the things that I know I do. Every day is I literally picture myself like arm and arm with money and I'm like, I'm going to trust you, you're going to trust me, that kind of [00:15:00] thing remind myself that we are in partnership rather than working against each other, which I think is how I know I'm.

I feel like I was conditioned. And I think as we said, people are it's strange. But hopefully these conversations 

Ellen: can change that. I remember you telling me, I don't remember if it was on the recording that we did or separately that you now have money as part of your board of directors.

Yeah, we do. And I was like, Oh, I so love that money's there to help advise and be your partner along the way. 

Karen: Yeah, we see her as this redheaded, persona feisty in a way. She does have power, she's fun. And she is a very forceful collaborator with us. And then the minute that we start to feel that fear factor.

It is so helpful to picture her again as that feisty redhead who's come on, we're going to have fun with this. Don't be afraid of the possibilities of what I can bring to the table. 

[00:16:00] It just, again, it shifts how you feel. It shifts the energy that we're bringing to it too.

Ellen: I love that. I'm writing it down. What would money look like if you were making her a person? 

Robyn: Oh, yes. so in messages from money. You talk about the wisdom that money has to share. What are some of the profound or even surprising messages that have come through? 

Ellen: a lot of it is that money really does have your back and that money wants to be there for you.

Consistently, if I have worriers that I'm meeting with, I'll definitely be like, please don't worry. It's not helpful. And I know that intellectually, there's stats in my last book, Picture Prosperity, about that, that people, when they're really freaked out about money, Their IQ actually drops.

You can't make a good decision. and yet, as we said before, much feels like you're doing something when you're worrying about money, like that's your job and how can you not. But if we take a step back, we can go, okay, it's [00:17:00] actually not being helpful. To think about that. And would you like me to share?

I downloaded a message for your audience. Yes. 

All: Yes. 

Ellen: Yeah. We is. Cool. So I wrote, Hi money I'm speaking today with the seeking center community and Robyn and Karen on their podcast. What messages would you like me to share with them and their audience? You are needed now. Your generosity and positive impact and outlook are what will help heal the world.

It's a beautiful way to make your impact. And they said do you have specific suggestions? Know that if you are feeling scarcity, fears, it's okay. And it's important that you move through these. Now more than ever, the news, world events are causing changes and they can feel like disruptions. What if they are also a call for conscious people to step up in positive ways?

There are plenty of people who are fighting. Sometimes this is needed. And what is also needed is a peaceful, loving energy in the world. [00:18:00] and generosity. Generosity of financial resources, volunteering, and creating a prosperous impact for others. One of your first steps is to get good with our relationship.

No guilt. I'm a loving, forgiving partner. So if you feel like you've ignored me in the past or been controlling or a big worrier about me, I'm excited to create a new reality with you. And it doesn't have to be hard or take a long time. And then I ask, is there a money mantra to keep in mind? And this is what came back.

I connect with money and money finds me 

Robyn: we are going to have that message in our show notes. and Thank you, and thank money for that message because it makes me emotional. 

Karen: that's because I think most of the time we're always feeling it's our responsibility to find it, to Be the curator of how we get it in our lives.

If we keep it, if we spent, all of that, it feels [00:19:00] disempowering in so many ways and then it becomes something that. Takes the energy away from all of the positive things that you want to do, If that becomes something that infiltrates that positivity of the work that we're doing or the messages that we're sending out into the world That's heavy and it feels like it's negating it So I love that this idea that money can find you that you're not the one Necessarily who has to be in control of finding it and orchestrating it. 

Ellen: Because we're actually not in control of that. We just feel like we should be. That's right.

Yeah. And it doesn't mean all you're saying I'm a hundred percent agreeing with, and it doesn't mean you don't take care of money. It doesn't mean you don't make smart investments and spend as Robyn said, on things that you value. I've been playing a lot often on this year with what. I feel like in my business, trying to effort bringing certain business in.

And I know from my other business and past experience, when I can focus [00:20:00] on making a positive impact, which is my words for the year, positive impact, then things come back to me. And it doesn't mean I don't have a business plan or I don't make calls to people and I just sit and wait for things to show up.

But I know that efforting feels weird and it's not necessarily helpful. 

Karen: . It doesn't attract the money then, right? Because you're almost, it's that fear. It's like what you focus on grows. And if you're fearing it, that you're not going to have enough of it. That's going to be what shows up. 

Just on that point, though, Ellen, if someone's listening right now, and is really struggling. I was at the grocery store last night. I was thinking about today and the woman who was checking me out the cashier at the grocery store was telling this other woman the story about how her niece had just totaled her car and it wasn't 

, it was her boyfriend who totaled it, but she was on her insurance, and she just had to put new tires on her car, and she had just started this new job, and I could just sense that fear, and that feeling of scarcity, [00:21:00] and how am I going to make ends meet, and you can't blame her it is like the air quotes reality that she's living in but I'm just wondering because so much of this is our thoughts as we know and even to be gentle on herself or for those of us who are thinking about, oh, my gosh, money scarcity right now.

How do I live in that? how would you suggest that they adjust their thinking About money as this entity, right? what could be helpful in that situation? 

Ellen: Yeah, it is hard and I don't want to step over that. And we can also imagine if she's freaked out, 

what am I going to do? It's really hard. To think of what you can do. And so it doesn't mean ignoring those feelings I've always been a proponent of finding contemplative practices to lower that stress. So we can hear our own good intentions better. So it could be give two many things, but also a walk in nature, breathing, trying to calm your nervous [00:22:00] system down to the best that you can is going to be helpful. From a financial standpoint, these don't seem like financial recommendations, but focusing on what is okay right now, what is working maybe in this one, making up a story. Cause I don't know, and you don't know this woman either.

Maybe she still has a roof over her head. She still has a job. There's things that you can start to go. Okay. Yes, this sucks. And. I'm thankful for this. And I know you and your listeners know about the power of gratitude. I don't think people always think about being grateful for financial things.

They think it, of course our family's healthy or whatever it is, you can be grateful for money. Likes it when you're thankful for it as well. 

Karen: It's so funny. You said that cause I was. I was trying to think of something to say since she included me in the conversation and I said to her, your niece is so lucky to have an aunt like you that is willing to support her, especially in this awful situation that she's in and what an example you [00:23:00] are.

Of someone who is giving and okay, maybe it's not the best of circumstances, but you're able to support her. And that's going to be a life lesson that you're teaching her as well, cause again, it is, I'm always putting myself in that situation what would I do if I was in that situation too?

And sometimes it does seem overwhelming, but brightened up so much just in that little comment because she wasn't thinking about that at all. She was just thinking about the trauma and the stress. And so I think even in a tweak like that in really tough situations, you can see gosh, I'm being really strong in this situation, despite what's going on.

And there's always a lesson that money is teaching you, even if it's in. Really tough, dire circumstances. Sometimes that's the biggest 

Ellen: Opportunity. And it's hard in the moment to say, Oh, there's going to be good. That comes out of the that's not necessarily the most supportive thing. And the other message I hear a lot when people have had really difficult times is it wasn't a punishment.

It is a way for you to learn [00:24:00] to be stronger or do something different down the road. Yeah. 

Robyn: And I want to also point out too that one of the first things you said, was to take a walk or do something and some people in that situation be like, I don't have time for that. But actually if you just take ten minutes to walk around the block or do something, that actually will go such a long way because you don't realize how much 

you have to bring your whole nervous system down so that you can hear. I love what you said so that you can actually hear your own thoughts and be able to do something a little more productive. 

Karen: What I love about this book so much is it reminds us that money is our teacher, it is one of these earthly tangible things that is here to teach us. And fear is our biggest lesson, no matter where it comes from. And if money and fear are connected, then yes it's a teaching opportunity to, okay, so how do we really break that down and figure ways to it? Not to be such a [00:25:00] fearsome experience in our life and get past that.

In some way that's what I'm always trying to catch myself , when I worry It's worrying. Okay. So there is a teaching moment here. 

Ellen: And what you are bringing up is that awareness, even the awareness I am freaking out about money. I'm thinking scarcity thoughts right now, which are constrictive and fear based and there's not enough and for me to win, you have to lose, those kinds of thoughts.

And often we're, I'd like to think about it as going with the current or against the current. So scarcity thoughts are trying to swim against the current. 

All: Yeah. 

Ellen: And abundance thoughts or prosperity thoughts are going with the current, and those tend to be more generous, more optimistic, collaborative, and what I heard both of you just do is identify that you're even in a current, and that you are going against it.

And that is no small matter. It's really the first step in having a great relationship with money is being aware of what you are thinking and [00:26:00] saying and feeling about money. 

Karen: I'm definitely a student, Ellen. Integrating money and spirituality. Is really interesting. Like those words, I just rattled off at the beginning, they don't seem to fit together authentically until we start to break it down and do this work and , I love that as an 

Ellen: exercise.

And there is the limiting belief that money isn't spiritual and that, so people in healing professions, they're like, I shouldn't charge that much because I'm doing good work in the world. Like they're mutually. exclusive. And that is our beliefs, our thoughts, we've thought over and they feel like truth.

I had a woman at a workshop I did that was more of a spiritual audience. And she said she felt superior to money. Like she was better than because she was spiritual. She was a healer and her results were she did not have a lot of money. So money's okay, fine. 

Karen: makes me ask a question though. What about people like, I remember my first [00:27:00] job.

I loved it so much. I literally was like, I would work for no money. I just love this so much. And it was a really good paycheck. I never worried about it. I never thought about it. Is that because the resistance and the joy, the resistance is not there. The joy is, and it actually is.

Initiates that flow for money. Is that how it works? 

Ellen: think it's the ideal situation that most of us hope for is that we're doing work that we would do for free and we're getting beautifully paid for it. 

Karen: So it's releasing that worry and concern about the enoughness of it and just feeling into I'm doing something for money and it comes and flows freely.

Ellen: Yeah. It felt like you were really swimming with the current. It did. Yeah. Yeah. 

Karen: And it's the jobs where I felt. The least aligned that I feel like I'm working for money and it never feels good. 

Robyn: Yeah. So true. Let's talk about your money talks cards. We think they're [00:28:00] brilliant.

I was saying to Ellen, they sit in my kitchen and it really becomes a topic of conversation at least once a week in our home. So can you talk about they are and how they work? 

Ellen: I had kept hearing the message from money over and over. Get your cards done. And I resisted at first to try to find ones that would be helpful.

I just didn't want like something that was just something you had around. It wasn't really a good tool So I developed 50 questions that are thought provoking questions around your relationship with money. So there's three types of cards. There's vision cards, which are the yellow ones. And these are about your future vision.

There's wisdom cards, which are the purple ones. And these are about learning or something that you've come to realize. And then the blue cards are mindset cards. And these are about how we think and feel about money and I've found that they're really helpful in a lot of ways. So as I mentioned before, people do not [00:29:00] like talking about money.

They don't talk about what their partner Fidelity did a study that 42 percent of people don't know how much money their spouse makes. I've talked to people like, yeah, I have a vague idea, but that's like an important part of planning, I think is to know what's happening with the money in your relationship.

The cards aren't tactical, like what's your income or what's your net worth? Cause that is all very important. People, I think, know those questions. Financial advisors ask that questions, those types of questions, but these are more deeper thought provoking Prompts. And so they can be used either as a journal prompt or a contemplation.

It can be a theme. You pull one for the week at conversation starters. So I did a workshop with some very wealthy people in Colorado and we used it as an activity where they were walking around sharing answers with other people. So flexing that it's okay to talk about money muscle. And then one of the couples there took a deck and spent the whole afternoon asking each other [00:30:00] questions.

And really learned a lot. They've been married for years and it seemed like they had a really good relationship and a good money relationship. So to give you an idea, I pulled a card before the show today. And it's a wisdom card. And this card says, think of a time you felt guilty or ashamed about a financial situation or decision and what valuable lesson or positive change occurred.

I thought that was so interesting. This is the card to get pulled because when I do group activities, I don't use this card in the deck because I was like, Oh, someone doesn't have to walk up to a stranger and say what they're ashamed of about money. There's another card. That's a money secrets card. I'm like, I usually pull that too.

And I thought, yeah, but There's a lot of shame around money that people have and making it okay. Whether there's something they're really ashamed about. And there is a valuable lesson. So it was like how would I answer this card? So when I was a financial advisor, I'd been in business about 10 years and our kids were little.

And we had credit [00:31:00] card debt cause we had some real estate that wasn't leased. And I was mortified. I never had debt in my life. And I thought if my clients knew I had credit card debt, I'd be so embarrassed. And I was blaming my husband and I was just in this really victimy, not helpful place. And at the time I was.

Working with my coach at the time, and she said, Ellen, after she listened to me whine about how it was my husband's fault, and I was so embarrassed, she goes, Ellen, it really sounds like you're coming from a place of scarcity and not abundance. So even back then, this was many years ago, I was thinking about these thoughts, and she knew that.

And the valuable lesson that I learned is, in that moment, after she woke me up a little bit, it was like, someday I'm going to be able to share this story, and it could be helpful for people. And I also. Learned that in that moment, I said, Okay, I'm gonna do whatever it takes within ethics, of course, to get our family out of this situation.

And by the end of the year, we were out of debt. We were [00:32:00] saving again. And so it reminded it was a wake up call for me to focus on what I was thinking. 

Karen: good. Because I was just thinking about how, self worth is such a equivocator for money. Yeah, a lot of money. I'm doing great.

If I'm not making a lot of money or I'm in debt, like we use money as a measurement of ourselves. So again I can see the challenge that so many of us have of like, how do I change my relationship? How do I change that mindset? So I'm not thinking that, cause it's like you said, a belief is a thought you just keep thinking, So if we're thinking that money is equating with my. Self worth that's a really, that's a tough belief 

Robyn: when I was thinking that how would I answer that question? And you bringing up self worth, I know for me, after I left my job with Oprah, I actually, had severance.

[00:33:00] And when that severance ran out, I was starting to work on Seeking Center, and I wasn't going to have a steady income. And for many years, my husband and I Each of us made about the same and so we were in partnership in that respect and for the first time we weren't going to be and I was really embarrassed about it and really uncomfortable with it because that meant that I had to.

Have him be the sole provider for, even though we have a lot of savings and we've been strategic with how we were going to use that so that I could live my dream and that was really challenging for me. And I was actually very ashamed about it and didn't want to talk about it, even with him.

So I really appreciate you bringing this up and it wasn't until. I had my own little breakdown around it that we talked about it fully and I felt loved and supported in a way that I didn't know I needed to be and that actually the [00:34:00] lesson in for me was that I can trust my husband or my partnership as well as money and that we were going to be okay, but took a lot to get there it's such a sensitive topic. 

Ellen: as you were telling that story, Robyn which first of all, thank you for sharing that. in addition to the money, you had a high status job. 

All: I did. 

Ellen: Yeah, And that it was like all mixed in with the money. Yeah. You are right. 

Robyn: Yes. And then 

Ellen: that, 

Robyn: it was my identity.

All of it. It's the whole self identity. that's why when you said self-worth. Yeah. That was, and I just wanna stress to people. That probably took two years to really process, accept, discuss. All the things. So it's very emotional because it was all wrapped in for such a long time. 

Karen: Yeah. And I think again there's people out there too, that are just, single moms that are on their own that don't have any partner to help them necessarily through that money. But again it's that tweak [00:35:00] of I know me as a single mom for a few years. I couldn't just put the bills in the drawer and just be like, I'm not gonna worry about that.

I had to face my fear. I had to put that date on the calendar. I'm gonna pay the bills. And the more I did that, the more it empowered me because I got more and more control of understanding where the money was, where the money was going, and that took a lot of the fear away out of the equation.

Isn't it like everybody, everyone has their own thing, no matter what their life experiences. It seems to pop up for everybody. 

Ellen: So Karen, I just want to call out , so the framework in the book is about being aware, which we talked about, which you. Brought up the next part is being clear.

Like, where do you want to go? So Robyn you had this vision. You both do about seeking center and what it's going to become and using your mind as a tool. And then the third step is care. And that's what you did. You're like, I could have this vision and awareness, but if I put the bills in the drawer and never paid attention to the fact we [00:36:00] live in a material world and money is important to surviving.

For most of us. That was a really very important part. And the last part is share. So aware, clear, care and share, which is around this generosity and gratitude part, which is another way to reduce stress. Money loves to be shared. When we hang on really tightly to what we have, I'm not gonna be okay. I'm not gonna be okay. If things are difficult, it's easy to feel like that and it's counterintuitive. But the more you can loosen your grip. And not only be grateful for what you have, but share some of what you have, not more than is responsible.

And some people feel guilty about having money and they give away too much, but it helps lower our stress and it opens the portals to more flowing into you for you. One of the things I like to talk about is that generosity precedes prosperity. And people will sometimes say, Oh, I want to give back.

Or when I have more money, I'll [00:37:00] give. And I don't know why that irks me. Give forward or give currently, like, why are you waiting? There's so much. Need now again, don't give more than you can and maybe you're not in a position to give right now, but you can energetically give to other people you can help someone out.

 so that's what I want to say about share. It's really the, thing that can help us go from going against the current to with the current when we are stuck in that muddy middle. Like we know we don't want to be here and we want to be here to open up the portals to be more generous as well as being grateful. 

Robyn: That energy of giving, whether it is of money, of time, we just did this podcast with Jamie Breeze, who is one of our go to people, like you, Ellen, and she'd just been through a fire in Canada, lost everything, and we were talking about how can we help others.

Who are losing things, especially in these natural disasters that are going on. And she's just send them clothes that you have. If you have [00:38:00] clothes that you're not using, send them to the community. And that energetically feels good, , that will go a long way.

 Even the energy of it. 

Ellen: one of the things I took away from that show, there was many that I loved was also that people are perhaps feeling shame. They lost everything, but they felt like they had a lot and maybe a Uber Eats gift card. They would never act like they might be embarrassed to say they needed that.

But who wouldn't appreciate. That. And so there's a sensitivity there that's important for all of us because there's this way we think because someone might have fancy clothes or a big house and we know that doesn't make them happy. But somehow we feel like, oh, they got it made. They don't have to worry about X, Y and Z.

But you don't really know what's happening for someone else. 

Karen: No, and money is an exchange, right? it's an exchange of emotion in a lot of cases too. You give money for somebody's graduation or you give money to a charity that you believe in and it's great for the giver, but it also teaches the receiver [00:39:00] to receive.

we all struggle with that in, in a lot of ways. But the joy that comes out of that exchange, I think that's what you're trying to teach us, Ellen, is then you get that whole energetic shift in the energy, And that's the whole thing. That's the little redhead that you want to have sitting At your table with the sort of like the happy grin, because it is that reciprocity.

Thank you. It's that, that changes how abundance can actually come because it makes that room for it to actually be there because it is the giving. And the receiving. 

Ellen: I'm really glad you brought up the receiving part because it's not always easy for us to be on the receiving end. And it's important, if you're in your own business, if any of the listeners are self employed, you got to be open to receiving.

It's not just about giving. Hopefully you have a generosity focus in your business. But there's an exchange that's really important to have to happen. And for you to be open, willing to charge appropriately for your services and being open to receiving is incredibly [00:40:00] powerful. And it is part of the process because we know that giving.

improves your health, it improves your well being, people that are generous actually make more money. And if you're not being open to receiving, you're hurting somebody else's ability to give. It's actually selfish to not be a good receiver. 

Karen: Hold on, I got to process that one. It's actually selfish not to be good.

Yeah. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Karen: But again, just like all the other things it seems with money, we are not always taught that. So these things that you're bringing up are just such great aha moments for us. love this idea too, of our opportunity to have our own conversation with money. just to try it out like one morning if you are doing a meditation or just taking a few minutes and ask a tough questions and give it a personality and imagine what the response can be just like you did for us today.

might be really surprised. 

Ellen: An easy prompt for that is money. What do you want me to [00:41:00] know? Another one that came up when I was doing a message for money session for someone was money. What am I not seeing? I was like, Oh, I like that one. What am I missing? What is it that I'm not seeing?

Karen: And 

have your 

own conversation. Don't invite other people into 

All: it. 

Karen: Let it be your own one on one conversation without the. I think it's really important to have the friends, the family weighing in on your thought process, because I know that can sometimes get to me. It's oh, what would my mom say or my husband say about that response, but really be open to really receiving on a soul level what that message can be for you.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. love that. 

Robyn: Speaking of just relationships and we have Valentine's Day coming up, and this is really. An episode that's good for any time. But bringing that up because so many people around that time and this time are focusing on relationships with others. So how does improving relationship with money enhance all of your other 

Ellen: [00:42:00] relationships?

Our relationship with money flows through every single part of our lives. It flows through relationships. We know that can be one of the primary causes of divorce because people have a relationship with money. They're either not talking about it, they're judging how their partner is with money. It can be really challenging. 

And it flows through our work relationships as well. It flows through, are we comfortable asking for a raise and getting promoted? And as business partners, I know you are excellent communicators and you bring money to the table. If you didn't, it's a problem. I saw when I was an advisor, I.

 Had a peer that this happened to another advisor where she had money stolen from a partner. Here's someone in the business because they were just blindly trusting and not talking about it. And another client whose partner stole from him as well. They had been friends for 20 years. and they were not people that didn't know what they were doing, the people that got stolen from.

[00:43:00] And yet they weren't in that care part. They weren't paying attention. then it was awful there was financial trauma for both of them. And so these conversations around money, having bigger, better money conversations can only. either highlight things that you need to work on. I want to say can only make things better because sometimes it's just that process to get to the other side, but really important to get on the same page with money.

Just the story you told Robin about how you were feeling. Yeah. And listen, 

Robyn: Karen and I talk about money all the time. when you're in partnership within business, you have to be open and, we're comfortable sharing even on a personal level, like what's going on with us.

 And that only makes things better. 

Karen: important too, because once you talk about it, it always seems to lighten the load. It's when you're carrying it around inside yourself, trying to figure it out. That's really when it lives in fear inside of you. And I think it's always helpful.

Just to talk about it, [00:44:00] I'm just thinking it just seems like from the beginning of mankind, this is not a new subject at all. It's like the one consistent thing through lifetimes has always been at the root of a lot of learning and teaching. And so this book that you've written and this.

idea that we can have this relationship that it's not even in the tangible can also be in the spiritual really shifts the thinking in so many ways and the possibility of how we can feel about it. And I know for so many people will lighten that load and allow them to look at it differently, which no matter how comfortable you are, there's something to learn here.

And even if it's just how to have a fun conversation. money, right? it really could be quite 

Ellen: fun and humorous. And that's why I hope the cards do too for people if they don't know where to start, because it can be hard. And, money conversation when I was an advisor, I had a couple clients that hired me that I don't think needed me [00:45:00] financially the husbands were.

In the business. One was running a mutual fund. The other one had another kind of financial job, but they were not communicating great with their spouses with their wives who were brilliant. So it wasn't that they didn't know. They just weren't good communicators that way. So sometimes having a third party in there, if it is difficult for the actual tactical things is a really great idea.

And to have more fun with it, as you said, Karen, and half like more visionary conversation, where would you like to be in 10 years I just pulled a vision card. It says, if you had all the money you could ever need, how would you like to make a lasting impact? Oh, I love that.

Would that be interesting to ask your partner? Yes. 

Karen: how many times Is money a limiter on our thinking about what we're able to even do or achieve, Because it's oh, I could never apply for that job because it's not only something that we're fear from a scarcity perspective, but something that we fear that we're not good [00:46:00] enough, almost, to have .

And so what you're saying is how do we like. really reshaped with our own relationship with money, but even with our spouses and our friends, family, all the rest. And again, it goes back to that disempowerment money can be an incredible empowerment.

It's just, we have to decide what our relationship is going to be with it and how much power we give over to it in our lives. 

Robyn: What are some practical ways that you can go from that? Scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset.

Ellen: I really love the idea of contemplative practice meditation of focusing on what you're grateful for of taking action of giving and learning something new because sometimes we're scared because we just don't know enough about a topic or I remember getting phone calls from people before people were emailing all their angst in the middle of the night like a two in the morning voicemail from a client I'm really afraid I'm not going to be [00:47:00] okay.

Let's look at it and we ran projection. She was more than okay, so sometimes you need some actual tactical advice to help you assess that. And if she wasn't going to be okay, wouldn't that be better to know so you could make adjustments? than not. So it's a combo of way we think about things, but also getting some practical information.

Karen: Okay. Here's a very important question. If on my vision board, I put a check for a million dollars in the middle of that vision board, does that actually help in terms of the manifestation? Of money. Like what is your thought on that? I've seen so many people like write yourself the check or put the picture of the money on your, somewhere where you can see it every day.

Ellen: I have not found personally that's helpful for me because I know when I stopped, I track, of course my revenues and I have goals for it. That ends up not being my goal. My goal is. What that can do for me, [00:48:00] and it's also nothing I can directly control. I can control how many calls I make to get speaking engagements.

I can get a new demo video. I can, write another book to get my information out there. 1 of my goals this year is to do a lot more videos because I think they'll be helpful for people. So I would say. Karen, it depends. I know Jim Carrey has that story about how he put it in his wallet.

So if that is helpful for you, cool. I would add that if you're going to do that one of the important parts is to know how is that going to feel? I can really get in touch with the emotion, like so exciting. And, on my prosperity picture, I may have shared this. Story last time. I'm not sure, but I have, and it's still on there, a picture of Australia because I had always wanted to go there and I wanted to get hired to speak there because I think I want to live there.

And I thought it would be fun to have someone fly me over and it took more years than I thought it was [00:49:00] going to take. I eventually did get hired to speak in Sydney, flown over. It was an amazing experience. And it wasn't just cause I had a picture of Australia on my board. It's because it helped me remember that was important to me.

So every time I heard someone with an Australian accent, I would lean in. I kept applying. This was the fourth time I applied to speak at this meeting. I didn't even know their global conference was in Australia. I just wanted to speak at this group. So I didn't just sit around waiting for the phone to ring.

From some Aussie saying, Ellen, we want you here. So to answer your question, it depends on the person. I like having images in front of me to remind me what's important. I like feeling into them. For me personally, the number thing feels like it should be the goal, but it hasn't ever been the motivating thing.

Karen: I so agree with you. I feel like you're concentrated on the dollar amount. You're thinking almost too much about it rather than the feeling that you want to have, feel about what the money can [00:50:00] provide you. So to yours, it was, you had enough money to go and when the opportunity came or you have an income that's more than enough.

To support your family, like it's not about the amount or, when you're going to get it even necessarily, it's just that you can see yourself visualizing yourself in that sort of abundant life. And that doesn't mean being a millionaire for most of us, it means really just being able to do the things that we love and not worrying about it and calling people at two in the morning, worrying about if you have enough, I think we just need to have daily conversations with you, Ellen. 

Robyn: , what role does intuition play in making financial decisions and with our relationship with money? It 

Ellen: might be the best way to help answer this question is to read a message from money that is in the book in the section where I talk about intuition and awareness.

And the message is, you are more brilliant, wise, and creative than you give yourself credit for. You are also [00:51:00] supported in many ways you cannot see. Energetic forces, collective consciousness, and invisible guides are excited to help you in your journey. When you are quiet enough to hear messages coming your way, aware enough to see signs that they show up for you, and open enough to notice when things feel right, Your path becomes clear and your progress becomes smooth.

And then a mantra in this section says, I trust my inner knowing. I am guided for good. 

Karen: See, that feels so light and inspiring. 

Robyn: it goes back also to what we were just talking about with the feeling too. So much of what we've talked about today has to do with how you feel.

With money and that we actually can shift our feeling about money and that I think is one of the most important things we People listening today walk away with and can get more of that by [00:52:00] digging deeper with reading the book by using those money talks cards to continue continually have that conversation with themselves and.

Others in their lives so that you can get more and more comfortable and improve that relationship because there's a reason you're listening to this episode today. We know that this resonates with almost everyone. We know in our lives. But there's a reason you're specifically listening to this episode, because money's talking to you.

could feel it from the time we started talking today that money is with us today having this conversation. How special is that? 

Karen: Yeah. what my takeaway is that money doesn't always have to be associated with work or an end result. Or payment for something that you've done it doesn't have to be this.

It can be an emotion and it can be an enabler of joy, like if you think about it in that sense, what the result is, think about the result [00:53:00] versus the function that it plays in your life. It just totally shifts. Yeah, I 

Robyn: feel money is our collaborator and having and living our joy and purpose.

It helps us with all of that. 

Ellen: And look at what beautiful partners you are with money. Both of you. And yeah, I want to just end with reminding people that you and money are a thing. I wish for you is that you have a beautiful, warm, loving, caring relationship. 

Robyn: Yes, I love it. We have a thing, money and I, in all these different ways, right?

We all have a thing with money. Thank you so much, Ellen, for really creating all that you're doing, sharing the wisdom and making this relationship with money so easy to understand and then incorporate into our lives. Thank you. 

Karen: having bravery really to come forward out of that closet that you were talking about earlier, That's not an [00:54:00] easy thing when you've created such an incredible career and livelihood and advise so many people the traditional way. So we applaud you for. Thank you for bringing out your woo just a little bit late 

Robyn: for thank you for being part of the Seeking Center family. We're so grateful.

And what's the best place to find messages for money? 

Ellen: If you go to, you could go to messages from money. com. You can go to Ellen Rogin. com and you'll find a link to the cards, which is Ellen Rogin. com. And money talks the book and get an Amazon. So any way that I can be a resource and help people stand in their power more and use money for good.

It's my honor to do that. 

Robyn: And we'll have all of those listed in the show notes as well, along with the message from money that came through Ellen for all of us today. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you.