Seeking Center: The Podcast

Gratitude: The Secret Ingredient to Getting What You Want - Episode 140

• Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Belinda Liu, Omar Brownson • Season 2 • Episode 140

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Let’s start out by saying thank you for listening or watching this episode. We are grateful to have you in our Seeking Center world. Now why is having an attitude of gratitude important?!! Well, that is what we’re talking all about with Belinda Liu and Omar Brownson, the visionary creators and co-hosts of The Gratitude Blooming Podcast and movement.

Belinda is a coach, non-profit education leader, and entrepreneur who brings her gift of nurturing personal strengths and creates life-changing tools and experiences for deep growth. Omar is a storyteller inspired by land and social impact and is also an entrepreneur. He finds joy in making good visible and teaching others to notice joy and synchronicity in order to facilitate healing. Together, they are helping people cultivate gratitude in every facet of life and are leading new paradigms for personal transformation.

Gratitude has changed their own lives and the lives of so many that have crossed their paths. Gratitude has also changed my life – and Karen’s as well. Why is gratitude the secret ingredient to getting what you want? We’re digging into this magical connection that you can have with yourself, others and the world around you.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE

  • Belinda and Omar’s personal definitions of gratitude and how their perspectives have evolved.
  • How our biological bias impacts our outlook on life.
  • Why gratitude is more than just a "positive" feeling—it’s a practice of noticing and reverence.
  • How cultivating gratitude can transform even life’s most challenging moments into opportunities for growth.
  • Simple techniques to build a daily gratitude practice
  • The connection between gratitude and emotional resilience, joy, and abundance.

MORE FROM GRATITUDE BLOOMING

Visit theseekingcenter.com for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

Karen: On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

Robyn: And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com.

Let's start out by saying thank you for listening or watching this episode. We are grateful to have you in our seeking center world. Now why is having an attitude of gratitude important? That's what we're talking about with Belinda Liu and Omar Brownson [00:01:00] the visionary creators and co hosts of the Gratitude Blooming podcast and movement.

Belinda is a coach, nonprofit education leader and entrepreneur who brings her gift of nurturing personal strengths and creates life changing tools and experiences for deep growth. Omar is a storyteller inspired by land and social impact and is also an entrepreneur. He finds joy in making good visible and teaching others to notice joy and synchronicity in order to facilitate healing.

Together, they are helping people cultivate gratitude in every facet of life and are leading new paradigms for personal transformation. Gratitude has changed their own lives and the lives of so many that have crossed their paths. Gratitude has also changed my life and Karen's as well. 

Why is gratitude the secret ingredient to getting what you want? We're going to dig into this magical connection that you can have with yourself others and the world around you. Hi Belinda. Hi Omar. 

Omar: Hi [00:02:00] Karen. 

Karen: Hi. 

We're grateful that you're here with us. I was just thinking, listening to the intro that Robyn read and what really grabbed my attention was gratitude being a secret ingredient to getting everything you want. I love that thought. Let's just start though at the beginning about how you define gratitude. 

Belinda: I would say for me, gratitude is. a deep reverence for different aspects of life. And it can be in relationship. It can be in something physical. It can be in wisdom. And I would say that gratitude blooming is trying to create a big wide spectrum around all the things that we can appreciate and find value in unexpected ways.

So things that can be also very challenging in our lives. It could be the things that we don't necessarily want, but realize later that, whoa, I needed that. So that's what we're trying to capture with Our broader spectrum of gratitude through gratitude, [00:03:00] blooming Omar. What would you say? 

Robyn: can I just say that Omar has been one of my greatest teachers in the gratitude space.

Omar: as you can imagine, my definition of gratitude has really evolved over time. And I think that's, what's so beautiful about it is that it isn't this one size fits all kind of definition. And I would say at the beginning, it was just just learning to pause and notice good, and just that simple act of doing it. And, some people do it by journaling. But I really like just noticing it in the moment, And I think of gratitude is like this emotional muscle memory, the more that you notice it, the more that you feel it, the more you feel it, the more you notice it.

And so it has this beautiful spiraling up effect. I would say my current definition of gratitude is really the practice of noticing with the heart. Because that's the other sort of beautiful thing about gratitude is it's an actual emotion. You can feel it. And I tried meditation, I tried mindfulness, and I was already really [00:04:00] good at detaching from my body.

So I was like, Oh, sure. I'll just Disconnect another 20 minutes. It wasn't an actual way to ground. And I think why gratitude was so powerful for me was that it actually allowed me to feel things. And that was what I was like, not connected to and what would they say the distance from the brain to the heart is like 10, 000 miles, right?

I had to go through that 10, 000 mile journey to really learn to just feel these things. 

Karen: thing that struck me that you just said to Omar is that gratitude can be that emotion too. It can stop the bad thoughts in your head, It can stop those negative thoughts. when I run in the morning, sometimes My thoughts can drift off to Oh my gosh, what if this happens?

What if this happens? And I try to always stop it with a thought of maybe everything will be okay. And maybe this is here to teach me something. So it can be that little trigger, that little trick in your mind to actually stop those negative thoughts that can creep in. 

Omar: That was one of the great insights as I went into [00:05:00] learning more about gratitude is that we have a biological bias to focus on the negative.

And so once I learned that it was just a biological bias, then it was just a lot easier to just not get so caught up in whatever that sort of thought is, and then those spiraling thoughts, because you're like, Oh, look, there's the biological bias! Hi, bias! And, I do a lot of work with this Zen master, Norma Wong, and she says that practice is anything that disrupts habit.

And so when we realize the brain has this evolutionary habit to look at the negative, then you're like, Oh, okay. Gratitude is just this disrupter. It's not you that has this bias. It's just evolution. And so then all of a 

Robyn: sudden, Where do you think that comes from, 

Omar: by the way? Have you, We used to get chased by lions, tigers, and bears, we had real sort of threats. Now we're like, someone cut me off on the freeway. Arr, It's very I think that's an aha 

Robyn: for people, honestly. When you say that, again, it's the noticing, we don't stop to think about that idea of [00:06:00] biological bias to the negative, and where does that come from?

It actually makes so much sense when you say that, but I'm sure people are like, oh, yeah, okay. 

Omar: It was definitely a relief for me when I learned it. And I was like, okay, it's not me that has the problem. And I think that's also, if you think about it, you don't say, I am a cold, you say, I have a cold.

 And we don't become some Oh my God, I am a cold. I am a walking disease. No, you say I have a cold. And in a couple of days, this will pass. It's the same with sort of emotions. Oh, it's not like I am anger. I have anger and this anger will pass. And I think learning that sort of for me in meditation was like, Oh, I thought I was supposed to somehow transcend my emotions.

And then through time, what I learned was like, No, actually, the goal is to feel the emotions. But realize that I am not the emotion. So then all of a sudden I'm learning to feel these things without having to become these things. Then all of a sudden, again, it just becomes easier with time. That's why I call it sort of emotional [00:07:00] muscle memory.

Is you learn to be like, Oh, hi, bias. I'm going to disrupt you. and I know how to, because I have gratitude. And again, also, I think you said my favorite. Words, Robyn which is noticing, right? And I think for me is realizing, okay, meditation begins with noticing each breath.

Mindfulness begins with noticing change. Gratitude begins with noticing good. What you're really doing is learning to become aware of what you're noticing, And it's as simple as you are what you eat, you are what you notice. And so then all of a sudden it's just okay, what am I going to take in?

Into my body and into my heart. And what am I not? And becoming aware of that. 

Karen: just to add a little point on that is that for people who might be listening and are like, oh, gratitude again, right? we hear so much about gratitude. I think the thing to remember, not only it's a very simple practice of choice, What am I going to choose to focus on? And the intention is not to change anything in your life, Yes, there are things that are happening in all of our lives that challenges or fears that [00:08:00] we're facing. But it's that. act of deciding that I can choose to focus on something good in any situation and taking stock of that.

So it's a simple, but yet so powerful practice. 

Omar: And I think that, for me, Gratitude began with noticing good, but as I learned over time, and I call it now fearless gratitude is learning to become if gratitude makes visible what you value, fearless gratitude is becoming aware of everything you're making invisible because what you're making invisible is probably a fear or you're taking for granted.

And so I think Ultimately, gratitude is just that's why I think it comes back to just the practice of noticing. It's not actually about what's good or what's bad. It's just Oh, this is just what's happening. I am not all of these things. I can just observe these things and I can feel them. I'm not even detached.

I'm like, Oh, look, there is that feeling in here. And so I think gratitude is just the way to get you on. It's like an on ramp. To help you. And we know that just from like habit formation it's [00:09:00] easier to keep a habit going when it feels good. So gratitude is like, Hey, we're going to start with you feeling good, but ultimately it's really about you just being aware of all your emotions in general.

Robyn: Since we're on the subject right now, I also want to bring up, how do you distinguish between that and then toxic positivity?

Belinda: I think it's everything that Omar just shared of noticing with the heart then there's no bias also towards appreciating what is actually good, right? Let's unpack that. Think about the times in your life. When you really grew or when you made that courageous step that really led you on your path, those are emotions that are very challenging that most people would probably want to avoid.

But then when you look back over time, you realize, whoa, that thing that wasn't great, that didn't feel good was actually essential. And so I think when you start to notice with the heart and all the different spectrums of, [00:10:00] Emotion, like fear, sadness anger, it almost is like a teacher in some ways of what's really going on deep down underneath.

And when we can connect with each other around that language of the heart, then the experience of each other is very different. So I feel like it's like an invitation to depth. That we don't always feel like we can go into, think about the more, when you go into a workplace how are you doing today?

Default is good. I was just going to say 

Robyn: , someone asked me that the other day and I was like, I'm not that good overall, but there's some stuff going on to open the door. Yes. 

Belinda: So I would say what we're trying to do is invite in the whole spectrum of emotion into our noticing and into our perspective around our lived experience and then eventually be able to also communicate in almost a new language of gratitude.

So I think gratitude has a bad rap. All [00:11:00] those. stores that you go to with the gratitude thing, and it just feels like everything's awesome all the time. And I think that's a misrepresentation of what Omar and I are talking about with gratitude. why is it such a universal virtue across all religions?

It's not because everything's awesome all the time. It's a way to resource ourselves through the challenges. of life and humanity. And so there's some medicine there and medicine isn't always good, to take. 

Robyn: And it's two words I want people so far in this conversation to really remember and underscore for themselves is noticing and depth.

Gratitude is noticing and it is deep. And I love this conversation. I think for so many people is a whole other side of gratitude they haven't thought about. When you bring that up, one of the things that I've talked about before on this podcast, and this is going to sound weird, and I know we're going to talk about challenges and how that leads to deep gratitude.

Like my dad who passed away when I was 12, and we have a. [00:12:00] Deep connection with him on the other side. Now I have gratitude now for what he did for me in this life in terms of leaving. when I was so young, because I wouldn't be who I am or where I am or doing what I'm doing if he didn't.

And I know that and I am grateful for that sacrifice in many ways that he made or the contract that we had. And that I can carry this on and have these conversations. So that's something that people look at it with oh, that's so sad and tragic. And it is, it was.

And I had to go through so many levels and decades of work. But here I am. 

Karen: It's like what Belinda is saying. It's a wonderful teacher and it goes back to what you're saying Omar about fearless gratitude. It's that even though we're going through all of these experiences at the end of the day, they can be our biggest teachers that we look back on and are grateful because it does get us to a place in life that we perhaps never would have gotten to without it.

Omar: And I think that's the sort of the brain has a bias towards control. And it thinks it knows everything. And we live [00:13:00] in a sort of culture of quote rational thought. You don't have to look far to see that the irrational is very present as well. And I think part of it is the brain has it.

Oh, if this happens, then that is what occurs. And then it feels like it knows Oh, this is tragic. So therefore it is bad, as opposed to No, we don't know actually how things are going to really unfold and what the lessons are. And it may take decades, right? And I think part of it is disrupting our habit of knowing, disrupting our habit of immediacy, disrupting like all these things.

I think the other sort of. element of gratitude. If your brain is up here and it it wants to know, but we know that the brain is really actually driven by your emotions and your feelings and your emotions and feelings are actually driven by your physiology. how well did you sleep?

How well did you eat? how are you Physically and the number one determinant to your physiological state is your environment And so this is where [00:14:00] gratitude also is disruptive is that it's a social emotion. So it's inherently relational So if you are giving gratitude to others you are shaping your environment Which then shape is your physiology, which shapes your emotions, which shapes then your thoughts.

And I think recognizing these sort of relationships. And it's just, my daughter's last night, we were at dinner. They're teenagers, 14 and 16, So they're in it. And they're like, dad, a lot of our friends don't actually have family dinner. And, They were just really grateful that we had this time.

They're like, it's great that you have jobs that allow us to have dinner together. It's great that we have this time. And I feel like they're able to access that awareness because of the small practices, Because we try to have family dinner every night. And then before we go to bed, every night we do prayers and gratitudes and we've been doing them since they were I don't know, five, seven years old.

And I remember trying meditation with them when they were that [00:15:00] age. they're like, okay, take a breath in now, feel the breath in your body, listen to it. And my youngest one was like, daddy, my belly's not telling me anything, listen to your belly, they just didn't get it.

But when I was like, Hey, let's do gratitude immediate. I never had to explain to them what gratitude was. They just knew it. and I remember even one time I was mad at him, go to bed. And then 20, 30 minutes later, I'm like, all right, let me go ahead and check in on them.

And I was like, okay, girls, let's do a prayers and gratitude. And they're like, dad, we did them without you. And so this, like, when you have an environment. That is shaped by this practice, And that's what I think is beautiful about gratitude it is not for the great times. It's when it is for the difficult times is really when it gets to show up.

Karen: And think about how much it helps us to, in this culture that we have of comparison of always wanting more. than we already have, , like just to have a family dinner together, those just simplistic things, it's the noticing going back to that again, how beautiful and grounding and how you can [00:16:00] find happiness.

At any moment, anywhere. 

Robyn: And Belinda, what led you to, practice gratitude, become aware, and then ultimately create gratitude blooming with Omar as well? 

Belinda: I think it was the path of discontentment. that led me to discover what do I really want to do with my life. And, it's funny hearing you Robyn talk about my intro.

Cause I was like, Oh, I did all this work in education and I don't do it in the same way anymore, but that's still a part of who I am, at the core. I feel like. In my twenties and thirties, I did the whole, live the life and, climb that ladder and make impact.

 and I've realized even with all of those things, doing things for social impact, I felt this deep discontentment around like how I was living my life. I was super overachieving, super burnt out, a classic story of someone that was self identifying too much with their work. [00:17:00] And I think there was this point in 2014, I was starting to understand that part of my purpose was to actually be a steward of nature and of land.

And in that process. I realized that a lot of the ways in which we can notice and be more self-aware is actually in the physical, the physicality of a tree, the physicality of soil, the physicality of being in the water. And a lot of my work at that time was very digital and very techie because living in the Bay Area for long enough, you start to feel like if I'm not doing an app or something very technical, then it doesn't have value.

It doesn't scale. It doesn't have lasting impact. And so I was. Working with that medium and feeling super misaligned with the way in which I like to create and going back to the land reminded me every time This is timeless you need to bring people back to this awareness of the physical that then can bring people back into their hearts, and I needed to take that [00:18:00] medicine for myself and at the time my friend Arlene Kim Suda who's the artist behind the gratitude blooming drawings she was coming to the land with me.

And we were just trying to imagine, how do we get back into our creativity? And I remember she got inspired to sketch. a hundred plants for a hundred days. It was a hundred day project with Aluna. This was in 2015. And at the end of that exploration, I remember we were in San Francisco. I was in her studio.

It was a garage in her house and looking at all of these hundred sketches of plants that she had committed to doing and I was like, Oh my God, nature wants to talk to people right now, and we need to listen. And with each illustration, there was a word that she channeled basically was while she was Present with the plant.

And when I saw the words like joy and presence, beautiful sadness, courage, tenacity. I was like, wow, these are virtues, but how do we contain [00:19:00] this in a way that people can actually experience it and gratitude for us felt like the. The biggest container that we could hold for it in a way that it could be accessible to anyone.

It doesn't have a religious context. It's not only for the woo, it's for everyone. It's accepted. so we're like, let's pick, the illustrations that really align with this feeling of gratitude or the sentiment of gratitude, but then what's the other, we can't just call this thing gratitude, and so we were playing with different words and it felt like ultimately, Yeah.

We're here to learn how to bloom over time. The last card in the gratitude two blooming card deck is grace. The first card is forgiveness. And it feels like it almost takes a whole lifetime to go from forgiveness to grace, right? And then maybe if we're lucky, we can feel that full bloom of ourselves and our potential and the whole spectrum of life.

Robyn: That is so beautiful. And you can feel [00:20:00] that not only in your words, but in everything you're creating, the deck, which we'll have to pull a card before we. And our podcast is today, but also just in everything that you're doing in the podcast in, in all of the sharing that you're doing. So what a beautiful concept for people to participate in.

Belinda: I do want to share the Omar piece of the story, because, Arlene and I, we started creating this, we're like, we're just doing it, we don't know where it's going to go. And so we make the card deck out of the illustrations. Then we, started experimenting with hosting in person and online gatherings.

And, it was very beautiful, the way in which it was so emergent and organic. But at one point it was 2019. I was like, wow, we've been doing this for, a good amount of time now, 2016 to 2019. And I was like, I feel like we need a storyteller. We need someone who can explain what we're doing.

Cause we're just doing it. we can't explain what we're doing. And so it was like [00:21:00] December, 2019, I'm setting New Year's resolutions. And I'm like, I don't want to go at this alone anymore. Like Arlene and I were starting to feel like we're hitting the edge of. What we could do. And I go on LinkedIn and I'm like, okay, who's creating stuff with gratitude.

Everybody's talking about how grateful they are, but who's actually doing something to, make it more of a practice in the world. And I found Omar among five other people on LinkedIn. And I was just like, okay, don't be attached. Just write them, introduce yourself. And. It was really beautiful the way Omar received that invitation because I just felt like he came with such a curiosity okay, I don't know this person, sure.

Let's talk, let's learn from each other. And that's how we started was really with a lot of curiosity and openness. And I was like, yeah, I'm curious what you're doing with your gratitude app. And we were, critical friends for about a year, just. Sharing what we were doing in the gratitude world.

 And then 2020 we started to collaborate around these online gratitude circles where we hosted, [00:22:00] hundreds of circles for thousands of people. And I think that was the time where we were learning how do we actually co create together? How do we. live gratitude blooming in a business.

Robyn: I had no idea. That's how you met, by the way. I had heard about you, Belinda, because I'd working with Omar when you must've reached out. But I didn't realize that the genesis was you were just like, let me see who's talking about gratitude and send them a note. 

Belinda: And that is so not me on so many levels.

Like all my friends are like, you did what? Because I'm very much an introvert. So I'm not one of those go get them, people. 

Karen: Omar, what was your reaction Belinda reached out? 

Omar: It was definitely game to just talk about gratitude. it's just Chopra has this thing where he talks about consciousness as this mountain that he's just gotten to climb and climb and that's how I feel about gratitude is that there's so many crevices and views and valleys and directions that it can go.

And so [00:23:00] anyone who wants to talk about gratitude I'm for it. And but then finding someone who's also trying to be like entrepreneurial about it and really figure out like how to share gratitude beyond just journaling, and I think, which is the predominant sort of way that people take gratitude.

Gratitude in, and there's also a beauty in the fact that we've been talking more recently that gratitude hasn't been come yoga fide, right? Like you can't take a 200 hour course and become a certified gratitude teacher. So there's something wild about gratitude in some kind of way. 

, we'd created the gratitude app and, talk 

Robyn: about that for what brought to even, we mentioned that we I was helping work with you on the Gratitude app that you created. And how did that even come to be in your life?

Omar: Yeah, I came out of finance and real estate, And I was working on one of the largest green infrastructure projects in the country. I was working with Frank Gehry, the most famous architect in the world. And so on many levels, I was at the top of the mountain.

But I was discontent, which is what the word [00:24:00] that Belinda used. And my favorite quote around that is from Ralph Waldo Emerson. He said, discontent is the want of self reliance, That we somehow don't feel we have the independence that we're seeking that sort of sense of freedom.

And so I, started meditating and started practicing mindfulness but it was really then the practice of gratitude that something shifted and, I was sharing the practice with Glenn Kaino, mutual friend, former head of digital of OWN and he's let's go build something.

And so we tried physical products and digital products and, at some, I came to a point where I realized I spent my career moving bricks and sticks and what I really was being moved to was move hearts and minds. And so it was just really felt this shift to answer this call.

And so even though it was leaving that top of the mountain for something very unknown, I felt like that's really what I was being called to do. And then another friend was I'm [00:25:00] investing. I'm like, what? I'm not ready. And he's we'll get your docs in order. And so it just really snowballed. 

And I remember the day that my, cause I was leading a nonprofit focused on the Los Angeles river and the board voted in my successor. And I was like, Oh, snap. I just gave away my job. And what am I doing? And 3 hours later, we confirmed a meeting with Oprah and literally 3 days later, we were at her house in Montecito.

 And we were getting to pitch the Queen of Gratitude, a gratitude app, and I even told her, I was like, today's World Gratitude Day, and she was like, what? It was like, telling the Pope it was Christmas, it was like, yeah, it's the day. And at the end of that meeting, she looked at me and she's I don't know you.

I know your partners, and I'm so grateful that they're partnered with you because you're grounded in the principles of spirituality and gratitude. And so it was just for someone who spent a lot of time in finance and real [00:26:00] estate and politics and very rational, very aggressive things. To get that, it felt like a blessing, I've just okay, You're on the right path. And I think with Belinda's invitation is just keep trusting that there's something to learn here because it was at the sound, I was like, why would I partner with you on gratitude blooming when I have my own gratitude app?

And then I think ultimately for me, it was. Really trying to create the physicality of gratitude. And so with the cards and then the spaces that we're able to hold, and we've held them for like people in hospice to fortune 500 companies. Like I did a session with 300 people online and the company had just suffered a cyber attack.

So everybody was stressed out. And no matter who we're working with, or the context we're in, it just somehow finds its way. We had a guest on our podcast, Radhika Vakaria. She's a Mantra singer. And she said that. With the word courage comes from [00:27:00] heart in French core and she's like you don't need to protect the heart is protecting you and You can't actually break a heart you can only break expectations and expectations are of the mind And so really this practice of noticing with the heart is really trusting that you don't need to protect it And we say that all the time.

I need to protect my feelings and I need to protect my emotions. When in reality, they're actually trying to protect you. 

And when you can shift that sort of perspective and you realize okay, vulnerability doesn't have to be a scary thing. I can be open. I can share the highs and I can share the lows.

 It's what makes us human, And so that I think gift and then all of a sudden to Ralph Waldo Emerson's thing, we have that self reliance. We can rely on ourselves in a very different kind of way because we actually are trusting ourselves. 

Karen: There's so much in what you just said. That's profound.

 Absolutely. It really is. I want to get to my favorite question that we put together, which is this whole idea [00:28:00] about gratitude being that secret ingredient to getting what you want. Can you guys talk a little bit about that? Like, how does having amplify this ability to manifest goals by focusing on what you want rather than the lack of what you have?

Omar: I'll just start by saying One of my favorite lines from Brene Brown is that the opposite of scarcity isn't abundance. The opposite of scarcity is enough. And so I think part of realizing like, what is actually enough for you, Money. Okay. What is enough? What is it that you want to use money for?

Is it to be able to go to a fancy restaurant? Is it to fly on a private jet? What is the actual thing that will make you happy? Because the reality is, even if you have lots of money, if you don't know what you want to use it for, then ultimately it is using you. And I think that's the truth for most of these things, is if you don't know what you're doing, then it's going to be doing you.

 I would say that the other interesting thing about gratitude is, [00:29:00] in some ways, it begins by giving. It's what are you giving thanks for? And if you think about it if you're holding your fist like this, it's really hard to accept anything, right? You actually have to open your hand and realize Oh, this is what I want.

And then have your hand open to receive it. And so I would say what do you really want? Because if that's what you really want, it might happen. And you're like, Oh snap. I didn't mean it like that. I wanted to feel a different, way.

I call it walk down a mountain, I was at the peak of a career that I knew everything I needed to know, but then I realized that there's so much more that I don't know, and I'm more curious about what I don't know than what I do. But walking down was crazy.

Financially, it was crazy. The pandemic, it was crazy. Being back to back founder startup roles was like exhausting. But then I at the same time you look at it, we're taught as a society to climb climb. But where is the fertile soil? It's not on the top of the mountain.

It's in the [00:30:00] valley, Farms are in valleys. They're not on top of mountains. And so I think part of it is learning what do you really want? Is it that view or do you want to grow something? 

Belinda: I feel like too, it's reframing even that what, Omar, you just did is like the want, sometimes the want feels very attached to physical things.

And what's been really interesting is What Omar and I have discovered is gratitude blooming is helping people understand what is their ultimate intent. And oftentimes, we start our gratitude circles just with what is your intention? What is your inquiry right now? And oftentimes it doesn't lead to more answers.

It just leads to embracing the beautiful questions. And when you think about your intentions for life, oftentimes. They're not centered around a physical thing. It's oftentimes how do I want to feel, how do I want to show up? It's the sense of what can help us be more whole in ourselves.

And those are not things that [00:31:00] we get, or achieve or accomplish. It's it's a lot of building, the inner capacity. To receive, and then if you think about it that way, it's can be so many different things, that capacity to receive compassion, forgiveness, love, wisdom, ultimately.

So in many ways, it's reframing, how do I even be with what it is? That I really need and want and desire. 

Robyn: I think that is huge. for people to have that reframing and really digging into what is it that they really want because that ultimately to your point, what is enough?

, I think you can come to this at any age, but I know Karen and I talk about this all the time. For us with age has come some of that wisdom in knowing that it's feeling. It's not the material things. It's the fulfillment. It is coming from a place of feeling.

good, noticing the good and ultimately feeling good about what [00:32:00] you're doing in every moment of every day as much as you can. 

Omar: Paradoxes. Then it gets to your question, Karen, is once you actually become aware of what is it that I really want? Then it's actually easier to show up in a different way.

So then if you show up to your job in a different way, because now you're not reacting to other people's struggle, Because you're resolved your own, like I remember just again, going back to my kids, at the end of the day when they were younger, trying to put them to bed and it was exhausting cause I didn't have any more energy left And they would jump out of bed and I'm like, ah, my God, get back in bed. And but with more volume and less, kindness. And at some point, I learned that what happens if I don't react to them and then all of a sudden they stayed in bed when I didn't react? That's the same in a work environment.

Colleagues are like, they may not intentionally trying to be trigger you or what have you. But, folks have an edge. And if all of a sudden you are so grounded in you. Then you're not reacting to them. So then you're able to perform whatever that is for [00:33:00] you in a much better way because you're not reacting to what doesn't serve you.

And then you're able to actually focus and get the things done that you want to actually get done. But I think what ends up happening is what becomes important sort of shifts and evolves over time as well. 

Karen: I also go back to that, whole manifestation way of thinking, if you're always looking at that lack what do I want that I don't have?

It puts you in that sort of energetic frequency of lack. Versus I love what you said earlier about how we want to feel right is getting that car. Yeah, maybe having the car is great but I want the feeling of what that gives me, versus. The thing and we're always measuring ourselves like you were saying Omar about your career and like how could you leave the mountaintop because it's always that external perception of what I should be grateful for the great career, the big house, the wonderful family, all the perceptual things versus getting to the heart of that feeling of.

Fulfillness of bounty, of enoughness [00:34:00] that is always there for us. and it's not in those physical things that we keep thinking that we need to attain. 

Belinda: If I were to, think about that question, Karen, for me, it was like, I felt this huge lack of meaning in my life.

And I wanted that meaning with other people. Like I said, it was super edgy for me to reach out to Omar because that's not something that I do. Period. I don't do it in my personal life. I definitely don't do in my professional life. But it was this craving of gosh, I really hate small talk.

I really hate spending all this time with people and not knowing who they really are. I really wanted that depth and I really wanted that meaningful way to connect with myself and with other people and ultimately gratitude blooming was the thing that I needed to feel like, wow, there's meaning here.

There's meaning in every moment that I can create. And there's words to that. There's nature to that. There's. art to that. So yeah, it is interesting how we end up also creating the things that we feel [00:35:00] like is missing in the world that we so desperately are looking for. And so I think that's the other thing that comes up around that question too.

It's sometimes you just gotta go and make it happen because it's just not there. 

Robyn: And without realizing it at the time. I feel like you were following spirit and You're being guided in many ways, And then it was that connection.

It was the divine timing of all of it. And I really can't emphasize enough today how much you have, in my mind, really given gratitude, both of you, this idea of noticing And for people to look at gratitude differently, because I think Karen said this at the beginning of our conversation, people hear gratitude all the time.

They've been hearing about it And it feels as you were saying, Omar, and listen, I'm grateful to Oprah for being one of my first teachers in gratitude. And. I started, keeping that gratitude journal and so forth.

 And I think now what we're talking about is a [00:36:00] practice of depth and noticing that can really transform your life. 

Karen: how we can take you on this path, this journey, all of us, you two have really shown us how following your gratitude can lead you to those things that you want in your life.

It's actually filling that purpose within you. When you follow that joy, when you follow that, feeling, that energetic frequency of gratitude. 

Omar: So last year I turned 49 and in sort of Chinese cosmology, 49 is the auspicious year, not 50 because it's seven times seven. So I went into the day with okay, this is the big year.

And I was on a walk and I was walking in a different part of my neighborhood than I normally go. And I saw this mural on the wall and it said, dream, believe, achieve. And I was like, yeah, that's what I've done in my life. Imagine something, figure it out and make it happen. But I was like, two things [00:37:00] came to me in that moment.

And one was, what would it look like to dream, believe, receive? And then the other was, what's it look like to dream beyond what I can achieve? To not actually be limited. By what I think I can achieve, and I'll just say everything has shifted. I've been on a sort of big move for a while, but this was even a big move within a big move.

Because then all of a sudden when you, achieve, you're trying to like accomplish and acquire for you. And ironically, there's a limiting kind of. Factor in it, When you dream, believe, receive, who knows what is possible, when you go after the mountaintop you just can get to the top of the mountain.

You can't go beyond it, And so all of a sudden, moving into this idea of what can I dream beyond what I think I can get done by myself, then actually so much more becomes possible. And for me, it's like new job, my girls call it the portfolio life where I get to do lots of things outside the job and That's what's funny is and all of a [00:38:00] sudden, , when you are like, Oh, this is what I want.

You oftentimes narrow your possibilities. so I think that sort of wonderment is not Oh, great. I'm now going to have to go be poor. Vow of poverty, or if it's not a choice but for those of us who were fortunate enough to have choices.

 Why are we limiting ourselves?

Robyn: I would love for you to talk about the podcast and how that has blossomed 

Omar: Yeah. The first season was just going through each of the 39 cards and reflecting on the art.

We had the artists come share, why did that word come to her in that moment? We dove into the etymology of the word and then any sort of like medicinal benefits of that particular plant. So it was really trying to unpack the cards. And then use stories from the gratitude circles that we were holding to show what was happening in real life.

The second season was more the interview format and inviting the different teachers, coaches, healers we've in our orbit and again, [00:39:00] pulling a card with them and seeing how the different stories like this Radhika Vakaria, like this mantra singer and how the word courage can really be unpacked in a different kind of way.

 And then, this third season we focused around empathy and democracy. And so it's just been beautiful again, gratitude is this thing that we get to just follow in a different sort of nonlinear kind of way. And just make it work for us. We know how hard it is to produce these things, and we went from producing one a week to twice a month.

I think we're around more like once a month. And we're just making it work for us as opposed to feeling like, okay, we need to hit these metrics and, we're in the top 3 percent of podcasts. And, I think we're consistently in the top 10 or so In search for gratitude.

So it's working, but we're also not being bounded by it either. 

Belinda: And I would say the story of gratitude blooming is one of Robyn if I were to add a third word to your stack, it would be synchronicity because Omar and I, especially in the early days of our gratitude [00:40:00] circle space holding, really inviting people to embrace mystery through synchronicity.

And that is when you start to open up so much that you're like, I don't have any clue what is going to happen next. And I'm open to receive best possibility or meet the person that I'm meant to meet to then take the next step or, just acknowledging that we. Don't know and we can receive so much from the not knowing and I feel like that has been maybe the practice or the way of being with gratitude blooming is holding space for the unknown to emerge in ways that we can't even define with the mind and the circles literally season two is all about wayfinding how do you make Decisions, and be on the edge of different worlds like edgewalking, and I think this is the time that we're in is the alchemy of so many different things, plus the unknown.

[00:41:00] And, so how do we keep. Taking that step forward and trying to show stories of that so that people don't feel like I'm crazy or I'm alone in that, or it's so scary. Like it can actually be exciting and fun too. And in season two, we didn't tell people. This is going to be the card.

We literally asked them, what is their intention in this moment or question and then the card came showed up. And every single time there was a reason why that you know that card was present for them in that moment. So it very much is also kind of showing it, not telling, what is possible.

And that's something we want to continue to do is, how can we support people in that? Make it feel a little less, scary and invite more of that in. 

Karen: The synchronicity word is one of my favorite words. 

Robyn: Look at how it's brought us together. And how Seeking Center and Gratitude Blooming will be creating in the future together.

And so thank you for using [00:42:00] that word. 

Karen: changes so much the energy around the expectation of everything, So rather than again, going back and I don't have this yet. And when is it going to happen? It's sitting back and just. looking for that synchronicity to happen for you, it will bring it to you.

Robyn: It's allowing it to come. That's like that 

Omar: moving from achieving to receiving is actually trusting. 

Robyn: that's huge 

Karen: in itself. It's everything we're not taught. . Let's set that intention 

Robyn: and see what happens. 

Karen: And is that what we should do right now?

 You want to pick 

Omar: one a card? You want to pick two cards? What do you want to do? Yeah. 

Belinda: I think whatever n and Karen most need and want. Do you want to pick one for each of you or pick one for Seeking Center? I think we should pick one for Seeking Center.

Okay. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Omar: Imagine you're actually talking to like your favorite plant, or just a plant that you're familiar with, because it's in your front yard or it's in your neighborhood. And just out loud, share either an intention or a question that you're holding, but talk to the plant. 

Robyn: for me, when I'm [00:43:00] talking to the plant and the question that I would have is There's so many paths forward, which way to go first.

Karen: And I love this visualization of the blooming and what does seeking center actually need from us in order to fully bloom. 

Omar: So priority and bloom is what I'm hearing. 

Karen: Yes. Okay. 

Omar: All right. Priority and blooming. We can use the digital deck, 

. So there's seven rows, six columns. 

And, Like we said, practice is anything that disrupts habit. And so the reason that you're looking at the back of the card is that you've already set these intentions. Like, how do I prioritize? What really wants to bloom? And your mind already has an auto reply system of what you think that means.

And randomness is a great way to disrupt our sort of rational minds, And again, seven rows, six columns. You can either tell me a number or I can scroll like Vanna White and you can just tell me to stop. 

Robyn: Yeah, stop. right there. 

What do you think, Karen? 

Karen: was going in that direction. So let's go for [00:44:00] it. 

Omar: So priority and blooming, card number 34, the Foxglove Sing what makes your heart sing, how does your song want to be expressed? So as you look at the art itself and when the artists. illustrated this plant, the word sing came to her.

And what makes your heart sing? How does your song want to be expressed? So as you think about priorities and you think about blooming, what comes up for you with this card? 

Robyn: This is really such validation. 

Karen: Exactly. It's literally what we were talking about yesterday and today in helping navigate This is a perfect car that there are so many different ways that we can go. But what makes us happiest? What do we want to do? What fills us with joy? 

Robyn: that we're living in at the moment, and I know that both of been in, there are coming at us.

Many of which are so focused on the 3D in terms of money, in terms of what's [00:45:00] going to reach as many people as possible as quickly as possible and make the most money. there's a lot of that speak when you are an entrepreneur and you are in that world of investors and so forth.

And at the end of the day, Karen and I are really trying to hold true to what do we feel good about what brings us joy because. That is what will reach more people in terms of helping them feel better. That's what's most important to us. And so this really validates. 

Karen: it's an extension of that energy.

Just like you were saying, Belinda, about what started, Gratitude Blooming. The you're following that love and that joy and that. Gratitude that even you had and Robyn and I feel that all the time. we're grateful that we found each other in the first place. And have brought together all these incredible people who have the same vision and energy behind bringing more spirituality, more understanding to the world when it needs it most.

 my heart's actually just. Feeling like it's singing right now, just with [00:46:00] you guys. It just, it brings you up so much to have this conversation around these words. 

Omar: would just want to say for this card, when I look at the art itself, 

Pedals look like speakers, like amplifiers. And so just as you're thinking about your priorities, and then when it becomes clear what those priorities are, because it's what makes your heart sing, then it amplifies.

So it goes into that blooming that you talked about, Karen, and I'm working on a book right now. And I'm doing my writing and last night I was looking through some of our old notes, Robyn And there was this great quote from Jay Z, he's don't search for the vibe, be the vibe. And so I feel like, what is song is a vibration. Don't search for the vibration, be the vibration. 

Karen: I love that. I, I actually just wrote down as you were talking sing your frequency let your voice, Be the frequency that you are in whatever way is meaningful to you. So We definitely need to look carefully at these cards too, because there [00:47:00] is so much more of the message in it. I love that you did that. 

I have one other thought too, just as we're here. I wonder if we could just pull one more with the intention of people who are listening to our podcast, who may just be at a place where they're at a crossroads and can't find the gratitude, maybe this minute or might now be inspired to be looking for it as a result of our conversation. So I wonder if we could pull a card on their behalf. 

Omar: Yes. so for your listeners who may be, going through something and like how to like maybe look at gratitude in a different kind of way.

there anything else you want to add to that? 

Karen: No, I think that's great. We're all going into this season right now of looking for the gratitude and some of us may be challenged to finding it. But I think you've given us so many ways to really think about it differently. And so what card can inspire us?

All to follow that path. 

Omar: All right. I'll scroll and then you can tell me when to pause. 

Karen: I'm going to say stop. This is the card that caught my eye before So it's the one [00:48:00] all the way at the right at the very end. Okay. 

Omar: And, just adding, remember talking to our favorite plant.

 And there's two ways you can look for the gratitude, but you can also let the gratitude look for you. So let's see. Art number 31, the Gardenia, representing gentleness. Being kind to yourself and others can be a way to show gratitude. What would it look like to live with more gentleness? And for those that are listening, We're looking at Gardenia with just simple line drawing the petals are, are very architectural and that's the flower is in front, and then there's just a couple of leaves sketched in the back, what comes up for you as you look at this card of gentleness with the intention you held for your listeners?

Karen: I think it's just a perfect way to start, If you're challenged by gratitude, doing it in a way that's just small, little steps and and really looking at ourselves first, we're always telling ourselves we have to do more for others or be more for others, but really just [00:49:00] being gentle and looking at the beauty that we all have.

Looking, looking at ourselves first. And 

Robyn: allowing yourself to be, just be, don't put so many expectations. I think what you just said, Karen, I think so many of us put so many expectations on ourselves and it goes back to that whole enoughness, Omar, that you brought up too, and. I just think if you, this card is a reminder to allow yourself to be, especially now, especially in the season we're entering in terms of holidays and even with the new year coming.

Don't put too much pressure on yourself. Allow yourself to be, and then notice the good. that would be, I think our wish for you 

Omar: And I know the holidays can be stressful. And so just that very simple reminder to be kind to yourself and gentle. And so if on the day, folks are in the kitchen and buzzing around and you just need to take [00:50:00] a quick walk around the block or, give yourself some space so you can be gentle.

 It's a great reminder to give yourself permission to enter it in a way that maybe allows you to be more kind and gentle. 

Robyn: Thank you both so much for really, giving people a completely different perspective. On gratitude. 

think this conversation couldn't be more perfect for right now on so many levels. And to really inspire people to start looking at gratitude differently today right now, you can start right now. That's the beautiful part of it. and the other part is that you have resources as well on gratitude blooming.

com. looking for gratitude blooming wherever you listen to your podcast, but also go to gratitude blooming. com number one for this card deck. That's unbelievable. It's beautiful, insightful, deep, and something that you [00:51:00] can use every day. And you always have other offerings that you are putting together that come from the heart.

So could not recommend that more 

Belinda: amazing. And we're so excited to offer a 10 percent off for all seeking center listeners. So just when you go to the checkout, use the seeking center promo code to get 10 percent off. And if you want to unpack, gentleness for yourself, you can go to our homepage and find the card and there's all of our podcast episodes.

We even have music for most of the cards now. So yeah, it's like a whole comprehensive experience that you can have just feeling what does gentleness really mean unpacking that for yourself. 

Karen: are so grateful for both of you and the journey that you have followed to bring us all of this inspiration, especially at this time of year.

I think people, as happy as they may be going into the holidays, there's always that feeling of okay where is my list of gratitude? What do I need to [00:52:00] be grateful for? And I think you've really helped us find that and really make it part of our day to day, not just for this time of year, but all years.

So really grateful for both of you. Thanks so much for sharing. 

Robyn: Yes, and so looking forward to all that's to come as we blossom together. Yes. Thank 

Omar: you. Be the vibe. Be the 

Robyn: vibe.