Seeking Center: The Podcast

Inner Child Work: The Path to Healing Your Whole Self with Ramaa Krishnan - Episode 130

• Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Ramaa Krishnan • Season 2 • Episode 130

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Have you ever found yourself thinking – how did I get HERE? As if your life was supposed to be something different? You did all the so-called “right things,” and yet you woke up one day and felt lost…even despair.

If this is you, you are not alone. So many people are walking through life feeling this way.

One such person, who most people would never have expected to feel this way is teacher, author and founder of the Full Bloomed Lotus Center for Self-Awareness, Ramaa Krishnan.  Born and raised in India, Ramaa developed a deep spiritual perspective on life and her role in the world. She focused on studying and sharing meditation and mindfulness teachings and has become a pillar of wisdom within the Chicagoland area.

And yet, Ramaa encountered a challenging chapter in her life that led her to question her beliefs and to dig deeper to understand what it truly means to live a life of faith beyond traditional practices.

What came out of this difficult time are insights to help others embark on their own transformative journey. She captures many of them in her new book, The Yoga of Self-Love. Ramaa shares her intimate and profoundly human story of self-discovery and healing, with a narrative that unfolds into an exploration of the human psyche and the universal quest for happiness. Drawing from her own experiences and revelations gleaned from spiritual teachings and psychological principles, Ramaa Krishnan helps you navigate the complexities of life's stages, from the struggles of youth to the depths of midlife crisis. She aims to help you reclaim your authentic self.

Whether you're facing the struggles of midlife or navigating the challenges of personal growth, Ramaa is here to offer you solace, guidance, and deeper self-understanding.

MORE FROM RAMAA KRISHNAN

Visit theseekingcenter.com for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

Karen: On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

Robyn: And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com. Have you ever found yourself thinking, how did I get here? As if your life was supposed to be something different, you did all the so called right things and yet you woke up one day and felt lost, even despair.

 So many people are walking through [00:01:00] life feeling this way. One such person who most people would never have expected to feel this way is teacher, author, and founder of the Full Bloomed Lotus Center for Self Awareness, Ramaa Krishnan. Born and raised in India, Ramaa developed a deep spiritual perspective on life and her role in the world.

She focused on studying and sharing meditation and mindfulness teachings, has become a pillar of wisdom within the Chicagoland area.

 and yet Ramaa encountered a challenging chapter in her life that led her to question her beliefs and to dig deeper to understand what it truly means to live a life of faith beyond traditional practices. What came out of this difficult time are insights to help others embark on their own transformative journey.

She captures many of them in her new book, The Yoga of Self Love. Ramaa shares her intimate and profoundly human story of self discovery and healing with a narrative that unfolds into an exploration of the human psyche and the universal quest for happiness. [00:02:00] Drawing from her own experiences and revelations gleaned from spiritual teachings and psychological principles, Ramaa helps you navigate the complexities of life stages from the struggles of youth to the depths of midlife crisis. She aims to help you reclaim your authentic self. Whether you're facing the struggles of midlife or navigating the challenges of personal growth, is here to offer you solace, guidance, and deeper self understanding. We have so much to talk about. get going.

Hi Ramaa. Robyn, Karen. 

Ramaa: So nice to be here. 

Karen: we just start by just giving you an applause because I feel like anyone who writes a book needs a moment to really feel the appreciation for those who read it and have benefited by it. So we just want to embrace you.

First and foremost, and thank you for taking the time to pour yourself out to this book, because it's a really exciting one to share with everyone. I think we can all see ourselves in it. 

Ramaa: Thank you. I really appreciate your [00:03:00] appreciation. 

Robyn: And, for me, I have known and have met Ramaa years ago, and many of my friends have studied with Ramaa over the years, and she's helped transform countless lives.

in the Chicagoland area and beyond because I know you really started working virtually as well. And what is incredible to me is the depth, and this is what I think a teacher and a guide really does, is continues to learn and share. And I think most people will be really surprised That you yourself in the midst, because I know I met you, I would have no idea what you were going through, and I'm sure most people didn't, and look what you have taken and created from all that you knew and all that you have come to know, and organize it in such a way where you're sharing your own story, you're also giving people the resources and the questions and the tools to then really understand their own story. And [00:04:00] move forward, knowing themselves even better and being open and vulnerable to what is to come. So that's just to open it up. I just had to say that. 

Karen: So should we start a little earlier in your life? You grew up in the Hindu religion, which I'm still learning about.

So I'd love to hear about that. And a little bit about the relationship with your mom and your grandmother who are so pivotal in your life and still are in a way. 

Ramaa: They still are. They both are. And, so growing up in India India by itself is a highly spiritual country. Now that I've traveled around the world and I go back every year to India, I see that the rest of the world is not like India.

The rest of the world does not at every street corner have a in every street, there's a temple. And it's not just the fact that are temples everywhere. It's the fact that people, a cab driver, a rich man, anyone passing by will always stop [00:05:00] and pause.

for just a nanosecond and say thank you god and move on i've seen this countless times they'll pause in the middle of a sentence a friend is talking to me she says oh wait Ramaa and there's a temple passing by so this constant connection with something bigger that is what i have you know after all this distilled it down to that's the thing now it comes to you through the language of religion so growing up in a Hindu household.

My grandmother, a very traditional Hindu. My mother, not so traditional, but still, rooted in the tradition and the values and, being raised that way, you have a very strong grounding. And I think even the average Indian who does not think he or she is spiritual, is more spiritual than many spiritual people here.

Robyn: Wow. can see that. and it's such a practice. And it's [00:06:00] universally that way, where you can have people who are religious and or spiritual here, but you have less of that,

Ramaa: and it's woven into the fabric of your being.

You can't take it off of you. Yeah. It is , there, and that over the 26 plus years of living in the United States, I would say that is not woven into the fabric here. Something else is woven here and it's not to diminish. I think what is woven here is more hard work, perfectionism take control. That kind of energy is more woven into this, which I think is just as important now.

And that's why I just fantasize a world where these two worlds come together. Yes. 

Robyn: And you're helping to create that you're part of that fabric, I believe, Yes, a third fabric. 

Karen: Yes. And in your story, you really do show how the meshing of those two worlds [00:07:00] complimented you, but also, pulled you apart in, in some ways as well, right?

There's a lot of diversity in those two worlds and trying to live out your life. Kind of making a balance between the two was challenging. 

Ramaa: Absolutely. And that's been my whole life because as a career educated myself, my parents educated me and. I went to school and got my bachelor's degree in economics and accounting, and then I went on to become a CPA.

And, when I was working as a CPA, I remember my bosses telling me all the time, you need to understand that whenever you're going to a client and the client is making a claim it has to be backed by paperwork. You have to have evidence for every client, claim that the client is making.

So that's dint into one part of my head. And then they had this parallel universe inside of me where from, from childhood and deeply, interested in the mystery, in the things [00:08:00] that are above and beyond the five senses. And I sense things, I feel them. And then the accountant in me and the mystic in me are fighting with each other.

Robyn: honestly, it feels like such an unusual combination. And really what happened For you where you ended up really focusing on that spiritual side, 

Ramaa: actually, what happened was that, so when we came to the United States, okay, so these two parallel universes lived inside of me. One was more external in the sense that I was, an accountant, I had a job. And then later on, one of my colleagues and I, we started our own private practice in CPA.

That was one world. And this spirituality was more on the inner, it's a private business. what happened was we left India and I had to wrap up my practice. And, and I thought that it was fun, it's we will be outside for a few years, and we'll come back. And take up from where we left off.

That's what I thought. But then, we came to the United States. First we were [00:09:00] in Thailand, then we were in Israel for some time. Then we came to the United States and all along, I'm thinking, I'm not going to become a CPA here because I'm going to go back and pick up from where I left off. Meanwhile, I have to pass my time here.

 So with different conversations, I found that because the cultural differences, we came to Wilmette, which has minority of not so much of diversity, basically. So I'm trying to find something . You can talk about it's difficult because I'm not familiar with your music.

I'm familiar with Bollywood, not Hollywood, so then, I would think the only thing that we can talk about is the human condition because that's what's common between us. 

Robyn: And I just want to say before you continue on that, , we talked about religion and the Hindu religion being woven into who you were from a little girl.

And what you did though, as you continued from a spiritual perspective, what people need to know is how much you have studied and practiced in all different [00:10:00] forms of spirituality. Because you took what you had been taught and had what had been integrated into your every day.

And then you really expanded on that throughout your life, even as the CPA. 

Ramaa: Thank you. Yeah. So we came here to the United States and I just thought that I'd go back. But meanwhile, in order to facilitate connection and conversation, I would talk about, stress.

And then I would talk about meditation. I would talk about. Practices from my religion, which are basically not anything to do with religion, but are spiritual, universal when we talk about breathwork, there's nothing religious about breathwork. . But it comes through our tradition. The yogic tradition, they focused on these practices, So I could talk about the practices and gradually, people started wanting to have these conversations. And I realized that there is a big hunger, especially where we were for educated people. And I think both men and women,

 There's a hunger to talk [00:11:00] about something bigger that gets to the heart of the matter, but transcends all the, trappings of religion. And I was like, I'm here. I'm already here. Come on, let's do it. 

Karen: Was there receptivity from other women that you met along the way for learning that ?

Ramaa: Totally. It just grew organically. I just started like at the swimming pool, our kids are swimming and I have a small group of moms and we're talking about this. And then people are like, Hey we need to have a time for ourself. 

And so we started carving out time to have these conversations. And then more. and when I started full bloom Lotus, lots of people were asking me, is that a yoga studio? And I would go out of my way to say, it's not a yoga studio, though we do offer yoga, 

Robyn: yes. And what I love to with full bloom Lotus is that you call it a self awareness. studio, which is exactly what it is. And most people don't even understand what that is. , I would say in America, [00:12:00] for the most part, that is not part of our conversation.

And I love that when you started talking, people were listening and what also people don't know. And I think this is where a little bit of The mysticism and the flow come in is that right at the beginning of this, the first day that you were able to get child care. Wasn't there a story with that?

I 

Ramaa: love that. Incredible. That story's incredible because so this friend of mine, my friend Helen, she's a massage therapist and she had this client who was, going through a health challenge and wanted to learn meditation and she told my friend and she said, I know someone, I know the right person and she told me.

Now meanwhile, I had a one year old at home. I'm full time taking care of her, I had a friend here who was from India and she said to me, don't ever leave your children in child care here because, Many of them are meat eaters and we are vegetarian.

And she said that, [00:13:00] they will tell you that they are going to feed your child vegetables and things like that, but they will feed the child anything. So she had corrupted my thinking. And I was I was like, I'm not leaving my kid anywhere. If anyway, I was so completely fear based.

And then one day, Just after my friend tells me, I say, I don't know how I'm going to find childcare to go and teach someone meditation. I don't know what I'm going to do. And there was a grocery store right next to my house, . And I would go there and I see that they have this little notice board that I would not even normally notice.

But that day I was just looking at it and the word that popped out was the word vegetarian. And then I started reading the rest of it and it says, I'm a stay at home mom. I could take care of your kids. I'm a vegetarian and will feed your child organic vegetarian food. Wow. blew my mind.

I took the number. And I called her and I said, I can't believe you wrote that of all the things you could write. And she said, that's because a lot of moms. have become disappointed when I'm not feeding their children [00:14:00] meat. they think protein comes from the meat.

So I have now out of abundant caution started to say to people, I'm a vegetarian. So bizarre, the whole thing, 

Robyn: The timing of everything, someone was reaching out for help synergy in that, which 

Ramaa: is why I have, often had this feeling of, I think I'm doing all this.

 Is it being done through me and I'm 

Karen: being framed here? I wanted to say Ramaa one of the things that strikes me in your story is that you are a foreigner in a foreign land, 

And really didn't know where you fit in. And then yet you became the central figure for these women who lived here.

because they needed your light, they needed your guidance and you had a voice to be able to reach them in a way potentially nobody else could. So I just love how somebody who's coming from another place feeling like they're going to be foreign and not relate at all has created literally a [00:15:00] center that brought so many people in to learn.

That's just amazing. 

Ramaa: I think the self awareness, the self that we are talking about is really beyond color, caste, birth, religion, 

Robyn: And What I love is that comes through so much in the book, in your story, in how you were raised, and then what you've been able to see so far.

we cannot recommend your book enough, and there's so much to talk about, but I think what's really important is talking about what led you to this period of time where we're going to quote it because you say the challenges of the midlife transition are universal and among the world's best kept secrets.

Most of us are unprepared for the seismic changes that await us in our forties, fifties and beyond. I think that just gets to the heart of what ended up leading you on yet another chapter of your life that You weren't really excited to go on, so 

can we talk about [00:16:00] that 

Karen: then? So I can add, for me, when I read that line, it literally stopped me in my tracks because I think so many of us are on this path, and we're doing the thing, and this is what supposed to be doing, we're raising the kids, or we're having a job, and we're fulfilling all the things that we believe in our heart is right to do.

That's on the map for us. And then all of a sudden one day something shifts and we realize whoa, this is not the way I thought it was going to be. And the road ahead is really scary and unpaved. And I don't know how to navigate it. And so many of us are in our little closets. With this fear and we don't share it.

And so just to build on that and what Robyn just said, if you can explain how that unfolded for you. 

Ramaa: Yes, absolutely. And you're absolutely right. That we are all hiding in our closets. 

 It took me, I would say. The first three years to even understand what was going on.

Ramaa: I was just fighting with myself day and night saying, go back to who [00:17:00] you were. What's wrong with you? 

Robyn: This is coming from somebody who Meditates and is mindful and 

Ramaa: knows all the things that you just said was my shame. Like you are a meditation teacher. You are a spiritual and you are a mess. 

Karen: Oh my gosh. But. I love you for saying that out loud and in the book because that was the moment for me that you had me. I was like, Oh, I got to read the rest of this and see where this goes. 

Ramaa: You're a mess and you don't know what's wrong. 

Eventually, I found my tribe, but in the beginning, the people I was with and I have talked about my mother, and my mother was, till her death, an amazing warrior, and the midlife journey is experienced differently by different people. So I can't say that everybody is going to go through the same journey that I went through.

That's right. And some people are not so sensitive to all these things [00:18:00] going on. And my mother was definitely not that way. 

Robyn: She 

Ramaa: was a fixer. She died a fixer. That was her dharma. That was the way she lived. That was how she was. If I would go to her because, when you have something so emotional and so personal, the person you go to is your mother, and was very close to my mother till this chapter in my life.

 Because we were on the same page. thing. And I have heard so many people in my years of since of uncovering this. And the reason I wrote this book was because by the time I came to writing this book, I had already had hundreds of conversations with women. 

Robyn: Yeah, definitely. And I'll say most people listening to this are seekers.

So believe me, I would say we're speaking to most people's hearts right now because they're open to that emotional part, to understanding who they really are. And I think when you talk about your mom, which you talk a lot about in the book, she decided this is who she is.[00:19:00] 

And I am not changing. It's like almost like it was too late by the time, my way. Yeah. That's such commitment. She was so committed to that. 

Karen: think about all the people too, who are in a similar position who again, have their mom who is a role model.

She's a hospital administrator incredible career that she had, but very masculine energy. And then you have the daughter who, as you said, you think with your mom, you can be vulnerable. You can't pour your heart out and say exactly how you feel and be vulnerable. yet in this case, you couldn't.

And that's almost more isolating because you don't that person that you trust to be able to be open 

Ramaa: and honest with. And that I would say was just heartbreaking for me. It just killed me, nearly killed me because We were so close. I have heard this kind of conversation with many people who said, I was very close to my brother.

I was very close to my husband. There are so many. You can put [00:20:00] into yes, so many people you are so close to, and then this happens. 

We don't choose to change. It descends upon us. 

 

Robyn: That is the quote. That is, we don't choose to change. You're right. And now here we 

Ramaa: are, And you can call it hormonal changes. You can call it midlife. You can call it. The astrological changes that happen in your chart, whatever, but you know what, I'm the one going through it. You're just naming it for me. Thanks a lot. 

Robyn: And then what did you do at that point? You're in it now this is going up and you really don't know why and what it is that's causing you.

So for you, it was almost depression. 

Ramaa: It was depression. It was depression because, but I did not know that it was. You didn't 

Robyn: even know that, right? I did 

Ramaa: not even know. I kept doing what my mom had always done because whenever she would see anybody, who was sad or depressed and she would say, Oh, I'm depressed.

What a weakling. She can't even pull herself out of [00:21:00] it. Get her act together, woman. So I'm hearing that to others. I'm doing the same thing because I'm like, mom is in my head now saying, what's wrong with you? Can't you get your act together? What is this spending hours in meditation and asana and then still you are a mess, 

Karen: I remember in the book, you mentioned going so many friends, my goodness, but one of them was your physician, I think, and she was about you and worried about your depression But then you had a breakthrough dream. 

Ramaa: And that happened about three years into the process. I'm at a low point really low point. Can't talk about what I'm going through with my closest and sister who were not able to resonate.

Of course, I don't want to reveal it to my students. shame on me. Then comes this I would say a magical period started in my life and the magic was not in that. I went back to my old self, which I wanted to be be happy, be [00:22:00] positive, be strong self, which I don't think I will ever return to.

I know that now that was not the magic, but the magic was. the synchronistic things that started happening one after another, one teacher, one teaching, one insight, one book, one workshop. a string of things that happened and I was just following the breadcrumbs at every step and okay so the dream that I had which is you know integral to my whole journey in which I began to for the first time get an idea that inside of us we have stories from our past that need to be retold.

Robyn: Which again, most people do not recognize or are even aware that they live within and that they are actually continuing to feed us messages and stories that are not serving us. 

Karen: You had this dream. Talk about synchronicities,

Robyn: so you were meeting a dream interpreter. 

Ramaa: I was going to meet a dream interpreter. And the [00:23:00] night before I am to meet her, I had this dream. I made the appointment with her because I've been having some strange dreams, Some strange creatures would come. , there were some weird things and I thought, oh, I need to make an appointment with her.

And I did not even know there was something like a dream interpreter., or I would've gone myself. She came to my studio to meet someone. It's so crazy. And so this lady introduces me and I go, dream interpretation. What's that? Okay, fine. You know what? I'm having some strange dreams.

Let's make an appointment and talk about it and that lady is very busy. So she gives me some three weeks or four weeks and then I put it out of my mind and the night before I'm thinking the next day, Oh, tomorrow I have this appointment. I should talk to her about that dream in which I saw a snake running up there, And then that night I had the dream, Don't you think your soul knew? my soul knew . There's so much more, when I think back now to what our soul knows, but what our ego denies. Ah, so true. Another line . [00:24:00] 

Robyn: Another good one.

Know the ego fights

So true. Okay, so now you go to her. Yeah. Talk about this dream. 

Ramaa: And then she tells me about the inner child. And I have never heard about this before. She starts off a conversation and she says, you've got to now do this, and I ask her why don't you just tell me what to do?

And she says, I can't, because this is between you and your inner child. And also she said, I don't know. And she said, you have a studio. You are already leading all these women and you are having such an intense experience.

 I don't know why your soul has called this in for yourself and for the women you're leading. 

Robyn: Yes. 

Ramaa: Wow. And she said, I should not be telling you what to do because this is really much bigger than I want to comment on. Wow. So 

Robyn: what did you do with that? 

Ramaa: Yeah. So then I came back and, as I say in my book, one day at a time, and then [00:25:00] I started to really imagine the person, who had come in my dream.

And this is how I tell others to do. I say inside of you, there is a younger version of you who got lost in translating to adulthood. And is seeking in midlife to be retrieved and resurrected.

Robyn: It's so true and there are bigger things that happen as we grow up and there are even small little things, small silly things that you don't even realize. 

Ramaa: they become stuck. They become stuck. , I think about many women who have said, Oh, if I tell them to draw , Oh, I'm not a good artist.

Who told you that? Oh, I know this. My art teacher said that. Now your ego, is telling you it's a silly thing, but your soul is saying not so silly. That's a very big thing that you embraced and internalized. You internalize something that your ego thinks is silly, but for your [00:26:00] soul, it's a stumbling block.

It cannot express itself as long as you have embraced the stumbling block as your truth. 

Karen: Wow. This is so important for people to hear because I'm even just thinking about my background, but all of us from when we're so little, we're so pushed to grow up learn, do, behave, live within the framework of our parents, our families, our culture, our religion, all of those things that We just leave that little child behind so quickly without even getting to know them.

And so it's no wonder when we get to be adults, and we've done all the things we're like, wait a minute, who the heck am I really? Because you've been so busy trying to do all of those things. Was there one takeaway that. That little girl inside of you, I know it might be hard to choose, but was there one thing that you recall her or that she told you that you'd want to share with people who are listening?

Ramaa: There's just so many things. you know what she would want me [00:27:00] to know, especially a perfectionist, she wanted me to know that imperfection is divine. 

Robyn: That is so good and important. It's a 

Karen: big thought. For so many if we can just embrace that for just a second and think about that and how often we're trying to be just the opposite.

Robyn: And that feels like it was a major theme for you 

Ramaa: Yes, because I uncovered I'm digging and digging and I'm finding tons of shame over so many perceived imperfections And I don't blame the adults in our life, but they tell us what they have internalized.

 It's simple thing. Like my mom would say, when I'm coming home I suppose my, she has left us with friends and my mom's out and she's coming home. She would say, I could hear your voice at the end of the block. And none of your friends are so loud. You are so loud.

 So whenever I have seen soft spoken [00:28:00] people or people who are gentle, there are so many beautiful people who are so gentle and soft. And I'm like, gosh, Ramaa, not at all ladylike. Wow. Awful. And I want to be her. I want to be like her, and finally, this time she was like, The loud people are divine too.

Yes. 

Robyn: You know what I want to also say to you too, because that's important, That lesson that loud people are divine, but how did you start to really hear this inner child and start to really understand what was going on? Inside that you not like. What was it that, how did you start to do that?

And I know that may be different for every person, but it's helpful to understand how you started to hear. 

Ramaa: I think for me, one of the good things that happened was before all of this chapter started, I was always into self-awareness. self awareness was part of my journey before the younger [00:29:00] self showed up.

So now I became aware. Okay. She's asking me to love her just the way she is. And I'm having a tough time doing that I would see the struggle between I want to love myself just the way I am, but gosh, I have so much judgment about this. So this awareness that there is a resistance that helped me.

And over time, reading and reflecting, I understood. And reading from not only, traditional teachings, there's a book called The Brain That Changes Itself. but basically, reading all these books, so there's a little of scientific thinking also.

The reason that I have this dislike of this thing, in me is because of the deep conditioning that's become part of the way I think and see the world and I can't will myself. I have to decondition and recondition, and that brought me in touch with the importance of cultivating love. 

Karen: So [00:30:00] part of what you were doing to in your practice was trying to find time in the morning because you were still very busy, Yes. Integrating that into your morning routine and you start to journal. Can you talk about what that experience was like for you and what it revealed to you?

Robyn: And just to add to that, I think it's important for people to hear. And again, this may be different for every person, but you made time working on you was just as important as your actual in quotes work right like helping your students are helping your family, You made time to help yourself and for you, that was carving out time very early in the morning.

I wasn't just you thought about it.

This was, I 

Ramaa: worked at it and again, because of my upbringing in India, as I was telling you earlier, the deeply spiritual outlook on life, even when I thought I should do it. There was a part of me that was saying, but does God [00:31:00] approve? Really? Does God approve of this?

Does God want me to do my kundalini yoga practice? Does God want me to mean I have been initiated into this traditional practice? Wouldn't God want me to do that over this? I struggled with, and how do I do it? Am 

Robyn: I allowed to change it? 

Ramaa: Yes. And am I allowed to change it? Because this is the traditional practice, and do the breath exercises and I have done it without skipping a day for eight long years. Wow. I was initiated into it in 2000 and then in 2008, so eight long years, I have remained faithful to this traditional practice. And then this dream happens and all of this is happening. And now I'm being asked to do this.

Is that okay to do? Who am I to say it's okay to do? Who am I to say this is more spiritual when there are great teachers who tell me what is truly spiritual? And 

Robyn: That was the kundalini practice. 

Ramaa: It's come down thousands of years.

And who [00:32:00] am I to say, that I feel that I should do is more important than that. And that's when I came across that quote in the Gita that I talk about. Please talk about that because now 

Karen: I'm hooked. I want to read the Gita as well. There this great wisdom, 

Robyn: And you started looking at the Gita very differently.

Ramaa: Yes, I didn't look at the Gita for asking the question. That's again another synchronistic thing. My friend Maran wanted a copy of the Gita. So I go to buy her a copy of the Gita and I open it and the line that I open it to it says better to do your own Dharma imperfectly than to do somebody else's perfectly.

And I understood it as better to live your own truth, however messily you do it, than live somebody else's truth. 

Robyn: Which is. exactly how we should all live our lives.

And yet we don't, we compare, we do all the things. 

Ramaa: an important. Yeah. Which is why when you ask me how [00:33:00] did you do it? I'm happy to tell you, but I also want to say with the caution. It's not so one size fits all. No, and 

Robyn: I think that's 

Ramaa: very important. 

Robyn: helped you and I do, but it 

Ramaa: helped me like, okay, what I feel I have to do right now, I know that there are parts of me I have rejected.

And those parts of me are crying to be reinstated. And I'm going to have to spend time understanding those parts. teaching myself to love those parts, to be curious about those parts, and to see how I want to move forward with those parts. Because I can't say that I'm just going to be just the way I am.

Sometimes there may be needing some refinement, they may be needing some improvement, but as I say in the book, self acceptance first, self improvement later, self denigration never. 

Karen: it's so funny to me how this friend of yours and getting you to buy this book, the first line that you got was really the core message for your life.

Yes, 

Karen: [00:34:00] it really was. It was like the universe, God, this is where you need to begin your 

Ramaa: journey. And it sets you free, but it also sets you to take responsibility. Yeah. 

Karen: Yes. Because just understanding it doesn't mean that you've done the work. 

Ramaa: It doesn't mean, oh, I can do whatever I want.

No. This is your life. You've got to figure this out. 

Robyn: So true. it makes me think of certain things that in my life, I'll put off. I don't want to do that. I don't like doing it. But the truth is, when I actually do it and I get it done, it feels so good. 

Ramaa: So true. 

Robyn: That's what this is.

And it is taking responsibility.

Ramaa: Yeah. Because for a long time , I was like, , why am I feeling this way? Why is my mom not telling me that it's okay for me to be this way, looking outward.

Robyn: Yeah. It's easy to, in quotes, blame others, 

Ramaa: Yes. Or ask someone else You tell me what to do and I'll do it. Yeah. Does it work that [00:35:00] way? It doesn't. 

Karen: No. Or just to cling to the life that you know. 

Robyn: Yes. Yeah. 

Karen: stay where you are. Keep doing what you're doing. Dive into the unknown that fear aspect of, oh my gosh, what am I going to find when I actually start looking?

Ramaa: Yeah. And what I realized was that the kundalini practice that I had done, now in hindsight, I realized that totally led to this. 

But at this point of, do I continue this practice or do I do this, which I am feeling a strong calling towards. The kundalini practice had I stuck to it, it would not be out of genuine faith.

It would be out of fear of what this might be. 

Robyn: Yeah, 

Ramaa: I get that. So many of us practice faith out of fear. 

yeah, that's true. 

Karen: for those who might not know what the Kundalini practice is? Can you just explain what that is? 

Ramaa: Yes. So the Kundalini practice it's an ancient practice that is rooted in the chakra system, which is the [00:36:00] energy centers that are located along the spine.

And so think of ourself as a radio. And just as the radio picks the waves. So our body is like a radio and it is picking the waves and the kundalini practice is about a 90 minute practice, 90, 90, 90 minute practice, which included asana, breath work. chanting, visualization, meditation, and all of these are put together in a sequence that includes all of these and it culminates with meditation.

So this is a practice that is very old and very sacred, very powerful. And now I can say that the practice helps to clear the blockages in the chakras. That keep us stuck to old patterns. And when those blockages are clear, I think that we find the freedom to [00:37:00] break those patterns. 

Robyn: So you were clear and then you were ready and you had to take a different step in order to really clear them.

Yeah. Which when we talk about that step for you. A big part of it was journaling. 

Ramaa: Yes. For me, it was journaling. And so you were asking about journaling, how I was doing it. So my journaling, I literally had my journal divided into two sections. In one section, I invited my, whatever you call it, my human self, my inner child, to talk.

Okay. And I prayed that no one ever finds those journals. I have a very close friend and she knows what to do and where those journals are kept. And I've told her that if you ever get news of my death, forget about meeting me, go straight to the closet.

Robyn: Oh my god, it's great. 

Ramaa: Because when I'm asking my inner child to talk, she's going to spew all the words. This one hurt me. I hate so [00:38:00] and I had not allowed her to show up because I was always like, don't talk like that. That's not fair. This one's working so hard and you are feeling angry about your friend, your husband.

You do know what a noble man he is? He worked. Oh, sorry. So that repressed voice, I had to give it voice. so I divided the journal into two sections and part one was always like, okay, tell me, who are you mad with today? And why? What's making you sad? Go for it. Be as victim y as you want to be.

Pour your pity party. Here's the place you're going to do it. , so Like I told you, I took that 19 minute thing slowly became this process, okay. Then I would, read that and I would allow myself to cry, cry, feel compassion for this human being who's going through such a difficult challenge, holding her close to me and just, breathing, holding her and just allowing myself to say, , I see you.

I hear you. And I've got you. That was part one. Then part two, the CPA part of [00:39:00] me, how are we going to solve this? And did you talk with her to help figure that out? Then I would go to part three where I write to her. 

know what you're talking about.

And I agree. This person is a pest. 

He or she is also a big helper. We need them for our life. they bring so much to the table. Sometimes it was an assistant who's working for me. Sometimes it's a student, whatever. And I really need them. So here's what we are going to do. So I am collaborating and colluding with my inner child.

That is 

Robyn: so beautiful and powerful. And what you do in the book is, what everyone should know, is that it really becomes a guidebook for you to do this work yourself. I am very excited to do the work. I personally in my life now needed to be reminded, and then given the guide, which is what Ramaa has given all of us, is this guide to [00:40:00] take you through and really Get back in touch with, for me it's Little Robin, who I talk to all the time, but I really need to uncover certain aspects of my life that I haven't really revisited, so that I can really address and move along.

Karen: You said in the book too, it's like you do open up a closet and all of a sudden see all the compartments that are in there. You just allow one conversation to unfold and then others start to bubble up that you've totally forgotten about and you give it a voice.

I think so many of us may remember those things in our childhood. And then just go ahead and put our adult hat on and justify it. Like you were saying Oh, that person was just trying to be nice to you or you just misinterpreted 

Robyn: it 

Karen: as opposed to allowing that child to literally speak its truth and get it all out and be heard.

 I think it's got to be so powerful and probably surprising what that inner child has to say. 

Robyn: In your life, and I'm not going to, cause I want people need to read. It is. [00:41:00] unbelievable the things that came up for you that you hadn't thought about they surprised me for what went on in your childhood which seemed like in quotes a normal and it was but it but there were so there were aspects of it that I can see where that would impact you as an adult that were never dealt with Yes. 

Ramaa: And I didn't want to share that in my book because, and this is again how we all do this intellectual override, because a part of me is you've not really had any traumatic things happen in your life. So why would you write about it? But then as I continued on this writing process, I thought this is exactly why I need to write about it.

because there are. Support groups for people who have gone through this, I'm a support group for regular people. Yes, 

Robyn: you are. That's so true. 

Karen: For regular people, which is why we need to see ourselves like that.

You said it perfectly. Some people have tremendous trauma that they [00:42:00] have to work through but the little ones in us all as we grow as we're trying to find our place in the world and really, Please, our parents, which is like our number one thing, typically, when we're that age, we do mold ourselves into a reflection at times of them versus really get to understand who we 

Ramaa: are.

And, Karen, what I have found in my conversations with so many people is that this individuation from one's parents is, while it's very important, many people take that to heart. as a reason to become so individuated that they cut off from their parents. And that's not the purpose of my book. 

Robyn: I agree. You 

Ramaa: have to learn this. And that's why this book means so much to me in how I want to share it with the world. We are going through times in Our global history, where each one of us is being asked to individuate to know [00:43:00] ourselves. And if we don't at the same time learn how to respect and integrate another person's individuality, we could be fragmented as a society.

And it starts with your closest family and friends where you give them permission to be who they are and you stay the course of their wild and crazy journey. Without ever stopping to love them, without ever saying, I'm done with you. 

That integration starts with ourself, and I'm able to see I'm an intelligent, spiritual, sensible human being. And I've also got this wild, crazy, impulsive side in me. And if I can figure out a way to hold the tension between the opposites in me, And to never give up on my inner child and say, you put me in trouble every week, but here I am showing up for you.

That is the yoga at the deepest level. And doing that, I can extend it to my [00:44:00] best friend who is going through something strange. My child was going through a strange experience. And then to my family, my friend, and then the whole country, you see the whole world. This individuation process, which the present times are asking us to do without individuation, without integration split us all apart.

Robyn: That is so key. The way that you articulated that is so important taking the example of even, let's say your mom and seeing your mom as a person Who has these different sides and who may be very different than you and isn't really willing to look either at herself or at you in that way.

You had to accept love her the way she is and love yourself the way you are. And, oh my, that is really key . It's more important than ever. 

Karen: I want to just jump to something that you said in the book about interbeing, which is that Buddhist teaching, which I loved so much and how it helped you look at social media [00:45:00] differently. Can you just share a little bit about that? I just think it's just so in line with what you were just talking about.

Ramaa: Yeah. Many things are happening at this time as at any time, In one part of you, you're learning and reading and growing, and then you're living your real life. And I think what I bring to the table and what was brought into my life was integration of the teaching with the actual human experience you're having.

 At the spiritual level, I can say, and I believe, and just the other day it happened, I was walking and I met a group of my students, friends, and they were like, oh, we just totally co created you, we were just thinking about you, And so these kind of synchronistic things happen and we say, Oh my God, you know what?

Separation is a big myth. We are all one. And we gave each other group hug and we said, we are just one in different bodies. Now, can that extend to people I don't agree with? People who [00:46:00] trigger me. If it is true here, it's got to be true everywhere. Otherwise, it's not the truth.

 What is the test of something being true? That it holds good in all scenarios. 

Robyn: That is a teacher. That is the test 

Ramaa: that's what you can't just have selectively saying that we are all one and feeling great about it when things go. 

And then suddenly saying, I don't know why this person is behaving like this. I'm not at all connected to that person. The interbeing teaching say no, you cannot do that. You can't embrace a lie just because the truth is inconvenient. 

Karen: That's right. And there's so much out there.

That's calling into question what our beliefs are and social media, as we all know, can be very triggering in that sense, when you're seeing people react to something that you don't agree with or do something that might make you. And there's so many opportunities when you're seeing what's out there to feel disconnected.

And so I love this idea of always looking for that universal truth. 

Robyn: And I would [00:47:00] say when it triggers you, it's because It is you. It's part of you. Why is it triggering you? What is And so it should be a signal for you. Yes, 

Ramaa: it's a signal for you. So what I realized, I'll give you a real life example.

 So at that time, I had started the studio and I'm struggling because many people are like, is that a yoga studio? And I'm like, no, it's not a yoga studio. What do you teach meditation? Give me a name. to what you're teaching. And I'm like, I do teach meditation, but it's more than that. It's hard to tell you what I'm teaching.

Just come. I'm trying to raise consciousness and people are like I'll go to my yoga class. I'm good here. So I was really struggling to fill my classes, five, six people would come and as I'm struggling, I think, let me go to Facebook and somebody I knew has just posted that day.

Oh, our classes were so full today, we had to send people away. So sorry to those of you who we [00:48:00] turned away. Please come back tomorrow. And now the knife is there inside, it's got nicely twisted and moved inside of me. And I'm thinking what a loser you are. You start something you can't even fill up the classes here.

And look at this person, So I hate this woman. I wish she wouldn't brag so much.

This is the ego talking. 

Robyn: The 

Ramaa: ego is always going into polarities. You're a loser. Look at her. She's a winner. She's got the secret sauce and you meanwhile are a loser. That's the ego. But when it happened three or four or five times, that's when , it catches my attention. What is this happening to me on such a regular basis?

 The universe is getting my attention. I need to pause, think deeper here. What's going on? And what I got in touch with was she and I share something in common. Both of us valued ourselves based on the number of people who showed up for our [00:49:00] classes. 

Robyn: There you go. Wow. 

Ramaa: I was on the lower end of the seesaw.

She was in the higher end of the seesaw. We were on the same seesaw. 

Robyn: That's eyeopening. 

Ramaa: That's why every time I logged in, I would see her post. 

Robyn: Yes, that was what you were like energetically because we are on the same wavelength.

That's right. Cause 

Ramaa: it's energy. It's energy. You are on the same wavelength except the other person is on the opposite side. 

Karen: Wow. That is such a transformative way to look at it. 

Ramaa: You are not the numbers of people who come into your classes. 

Robyn: Another way I think that you uncovered a finding yourself as well as other people on that same frequency was studying Carl jung 

Ramaa: yes. 

Robyn: Can you talk about that ? I was really surprised by that. 

Ramaa: Yes. And again, one more unexpected thing.

So Jackie Walker, the Dream Interpreter, she was the one who mentioned Carl Jung to me. I had not heard, , and one particular day she [00:50:00] really brought one of his books from her library and she read a part of it to me. And I was just so impressed by the depth. of his insides, I was like, wow, 

so I come home and I'm browsing, probably looking for a Carl Jung quote or some book. And then I see Carl Jung has written a commentary on the symbology in Kundalini yoga. 

And so of course that was the first book by Carl Jung that I read, his commentary on the symbology of the chakras.

And then I read it and I have a whole new understanding of what I was already doing. Oh my God. This is just so deep and so rich. And meanwhile, somehow I had bought some tapes, Yeah. So that led me to the Carl Jung Institute and they were selling some cassettes of some recordings and I bought something.

So I was on their email list. And then a few weeks later, I come across this two year [00:51:00] program that they are offering. And I'm very excited because it has all the things I want to learn. But it says, if you're a psychotherapist, you need to apply for this. And I go, goes my entry into the program because I'm not a psychotherapist.

And so I gave it up. but they were trying to get people and it kept coming up. And then finally, one day I saw that they said, we've made an exception. If you're not a psychotherapist, but you are doing any form of spiritual counseling, you can join the course.

Robyn: That in itself, when I saw that, I'm like, talk about again, following breadcrumbs. And being led. This is what we call flow, 

Karen: It's flowing down the river and these opportunities are coming your way. And it's very easy and effortless. Not that the work is easy, but you're being led.

Robyn: And what came from that was understanding the Myers Briggs personality test. Which I didn't honestly attribute to Carl.. And that became another piece for you. 

Yeah, 

Ramaa: that was very important because it [00:52:00] gave me a language. to understand differences in a way that recognizes without disrespecting. it's a good way to put it. And I had been looking for that. I did that felt right to me. I want to understand you, and I want to understand that you may be different from me.

And I want to at the same time hold you in as much respect as I hold myself. Because in the past, the only way I had known Was to think of somebody like I gave you that example, My mom saying you are so loud. I could hear your voice at the end of the block, Oh, those who speak loudly are not good.

Those who are soft spoken are good. We are constantly doing this in our heads. Who is on top? Who is on the bottom? am I better than you or are you better than me? And I had come to this place where there's got to be another way. 

Karen: love how through all these experiences you talked in the beginning about being this accountant, which shows that there is this analytical side of you [00:53:00] that's comfortable with things that are factual and, defined and all of that.

And I feel like throughout your journey, As spiritual as you are, there's always been a little bit of that quest for the science and the evidence of, this real along the way? 

Ramaa: Yeah. And I think that in a way that's also very much a mission that's close to my heart because I feel that in the course of so many years of working, this is my 25th year of doing what I'm doing.

So in so many years, what I have found is that I have found a number of rational people. My mother was one of them who look down upon people who are emotional. Then I have met a lot of emotional people who will say, Oh, I'm an empath. And they will use that as an excuse to completely dissociate from their rational side.

And I feel like what I want to do and what we need to do as a human race is to integrate intellectual [00:54:00] knowledge and rational knowledge with our deep emotionality. 

Robyn: I couldn't agree more. There needs to be that acceptance. An active acceptance. Yes. Yeah. And it's so interesting too, because I would have actually thought that in India that would be more accepted where your mom just not that way and you don't talk about it as much but I don't think your dad was that way either. 

Ramaa: No, the problem is that I think that my dad was more emotional now in retrospect I think I'm more emotional I'm more like my dad but I think that because he's a man I don't think he ever allowed himself to completely explore that side to him. 

That's what I feel now. Yeah, back on it, it's interesting that. To varying degrees, these two faculties are not integrated in people. 

Robyn: No, here too. We know so many people who, they actively, to [00:55:00] your point, be one or the other. And not integrating the both sides and that's whether you identify as a man or a woman or it doesn't matter. It's doesn't matter.

just or Indian or American. It doesn't matter. . And so to your point, that is such a good mission to have of bringing people and they're both sides together. 

Ramaa: Yeah. And it's an effort because we are wired to be a certain way. So what we are wired to be appears to be real to us.

And that's what I've talked about in the book, for me, because I'm wired this way. I feel that my emotions are true. 

Robyn: To my mother, 

Ramaa: she's wired a certain way. Her rational thinking seems to be true. But what I now like to say is, what you are feeling and thinking are facts, but the truth is bigger than the facts.

Robyn: And you've worked with so many students over your 25 years. So you see this over and over again. That's [00:56:00] 

Ramaa: the advantage of being where I am. I have a body of experience seeing and understanding and this is what we all need to do. 

Karen: I was just going to say, it just goes back to where you started in the beginning, , train was going off the rails for you when you weren't able to lean in and be that authentic self.

And I think we're all called upon to fit into the norms. And that's why so many of us end up. So unhappy because at some point that inner child is still in there trying to be seen and heard and understood. And if we can take the time to really lean into that's where our beauty and our power is.

And as you were saying, as a group, curiously shining our light together and being able to recognize the beauty in the empath and the wonder in that person who is very rational. We need all of us. To be 

Robyn: anonymous. It brings up for me this question of when you've been working with people throughout these years and they seek you out, do you find this common point no [00:57:00] matter maybe the age or are they all in their 60s?

What is that commonality? 

Ramaa: That's a great question. Right now, even, I have different age groups of people I'm working with. I think that when the soul awakens, And wants to be seen and heard and integrated is such a mystery because I have one person who I'm working with who is in their 70s. 

I have one person who is in their 30s. And I realized that the midlife is an expression. And while most people, it does happen in forties and fifties. There are people who, I have someone who I'm seeing who's in their seventies and who keeps telling me, where were you all these years?

And I said, it doesn't matter. You needed me now. That's right. 

Robyn: I hope people can really hear that it is when your spirit awakens and I think for those who are listening to this right now, this is your soul calling you.

to really [00:58:00] start to pay closer attention to what's going on, to who you really are. By listening to this episode, it opens you up to not only hearing what we're talking about right now, but it opens you to go look at the book, start doing the exercises, start talking to your inner child, create a practice.

 do the work and when we say work, it's soul fulfilling. 

Karen: And it can be just one thing play it as a game, have that conversation with that little. Girl or boy or whoever that's within you just give it a moment to have a voice and see what comes I just love that exercise.

I do want to ask for you to tell us about the title It's such a beautiful title, tell us the meaning behind it. Yeah, what is 

Robyn: the yoga 

Karen: of 

Robyn: self love? mean to you 

Ramaa: So yoga is traditionally the means to connect, to connect.

the masculine and the feminine inside of you. Now the God and the goddess Shiva and Shakti, And there are literally hundreds of ways of doing [00:59:00] it. And I also think of it as connecting the left brain and the right brain, so many different ways of looking at it, but all those activities that help to make those connections.

 That is what is yoga. So in the West, usually people have this misnomer that yoga means the postures on the mat, which is asana. Which is definitely a part of yoga, but it is not what yoga is about, it's much larger. the original vision of yoga thousands of years ago was to make us whole, And there are so many ways of doing it, 

the intention has to be to attain wholeness, and my intention of attaining wholeness. I might be journaling. I might go for therapy. I might talk to a friend. I may up for a class. All of these, I am driven by the fact that I deserve a life of wholeness.

And that, according to me, is the highest way you can show your self love. Because saying [01:00:00] self love is going and getting a manicure and, getting a party. That's all fine. That's wonderful. Go buy yourself things if that's what you need. You can start there, but don't end there because you deserve to be loved much more than that.

Karen: I want to just say one more thing, which really struck me at the end of the book for you, which is that when you and your friends went to India and they wrote those letters , they put it in a book for your mom to be able to read. I want to cry because I feel like so often, so many of us do these things.

we go through our lives? We do things for others and they're not always recognized. in such a profound way. And I just love how this yoga of self love came to life for you in this way through that. And what a wonderful full circle moment for you to be able to share that with your mom, but also to receive.

That from others. It was just so beautiful. And I'm so happy for you that you had that moment because I think we all need those where we can be surrounded by people [01:01:00] that we've touched and helped. And, we walk through streets every day and don't realize the impact that we have on others.

Ramaa: in some way, I believe that it is directly the result of the yoga of self love. When people have unhappy experiences. of somebody treating them badly, speaking to them badly. I've also had those experiences. 

It always comes back to, how is it that you have been treating yourself? And as we continue relentlessly, like I'm not going to stop until I love myself. Not just in a way of self indulgence or, no, the truest form of love is one that uplifts you.

Otherwise it's just, whatever, when you love your child, you want your child to do very well in the world. You don't just spoil them by giving them gifts. Sometimes you have to say, no, I'm not doing that for you. in that kind of love, which many of us know how to show to another and then to bring it to oneself.

And then you see yourself thrive in so [01:02:00] many ways you never thought you could or would. And you realize, that's what love does. Love helps you thrive. 

Karen: I just feel like this is such a well timed. conversation it is that reminder and the power of love, not only for others, but for ourselves.

Yes. 

Ramaa: So true Karen. That's what it is. The power of love. 

Robyn: and that we all deserve it, and that we actually have the ability to love ourselves. 

 , most people aren't loving 

Robyn: themselves in such a whole and pure way. We have these conditions to love ourselves. And this is when you can actually let go of the conditions and 

Ramaa: just such an unconditional love. Yes. To be cultivated. Yes. You don't that. No, you 

Robyn: have to really uncover and dig deep.

And that's what this conversation. That's what this book, I feel like it's really a movement this yoga of self love is a movement. And if we can continue, and because of [01:03:00] what you've created one person at a time, 

the more 

Robyn: we can continue to raise that vibration. That is what we're talking about when we talk about love.

Yes. 

Karen: And for those listening who might be in a dark place right now, the reminder that Ramaa, was a teacher of all of this work and was grappling with that as well. Unbeknownst to so many and was in that closet of despair and was able to walk the walk and find herself and find love of herself again.

So just remember that all of this is here for all of us. And thank you being so open about your journey and walking the walk through it to be able to share it with us and to be so inspiring for all of us. So thank you. 

Robyn: Yeah, that is love of yourself and love of all of us because we all are one.

So thank you. 

Ramaa: Absolutely. Thank you both. Such a great conversation. 

Robyn: I look forward to continuing to grow and learn with you. Thank you. 

Ramaa: [01:04:00] Amen to that. 

Robyn: You can find out more about Ramaa at full bloomed Lotus. com. and purchase the yoga of self love on Amazon. we'll have that link in our show notes.

 Thank you.