A Spiritual Medium’s Near Death Experience Reveals Wisdom on Living, Dying + The In-Between - Episode 126

Susan Grau had a Near Death Experience, also known as an NDE, when she was just 4 and half years old. She felt herself cross over into the spirit world and what she was shown transformed her life going forward.

Susan is now an internationally recognized Intuitive Medium and inspirational speaker who has also completed her Doctorate of Divinity with the renowned Dr. Raymond Moody, the founder of the studies in Near Death Experiences. She is also a certified professional with a background in counseling, who offers services in Mediumship, Life Coaching, and as an Intuitive, Clairvoyant, Certified Hypnotherapist, Reiki Master, Spiritual Coach and Teacher of the Metaphysical Arts, along with other Healing modalities.

As you can tell, Susan is a healer and has been a healer her entire life. She believes she’s always possessed these extraordinary gifts, but her first memory began when she was that small child.

In her new book, Infinite Life, Infinite Lessons: Wisdom from the Spirit World on Living, Dying, and the In-Between, Susan offers profound insights into your soul's journey, the process of healing from grief, and the mysteries of the afterlife.

Whether you’re grappling with the loss of a loved one, seeking answers to life's mysteries, interested in near-death experiences, or looking to deepen your spiritual awareness, Infinite Life, Infinite Lessons provides the clarity, wisdom, and solace needed for your journey. It is an insightful guide into the often misunderstood realm of the spirit world. You will gain a deeper understanding of the afterlife and tools for connecting with angels, spirit guides, and souls on the other side. 

Throughout the book, Susan shares her deeply personal struggles, near-death experience, and stories of the thousands she's helped as an Evidential Medium.

We're talking all about it and how you can better navigate your own journey in this lifetime and ultimately understand that you are enough, you are loved, and you are not alone.

MORE FROM SUSAN GRAU
Visit susangrau.com to find out more about working with Susan.
Buy Infinite Life, Infinite Lessons: Wisdom from the Spirit World on Living, Dying, and the In-Between
Follow Susan on Facebook and on Instagram

Visit theseekingcenter.com for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:45 A Spiritual Medium’s Near Death Experience Reveals Wisdom on Living, Dying + The In-Between

Transcript

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

Karen: On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

Robyn: And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com. at four and a half years old, Susan Grau had a near death experience, also known as an NDE. , she felt herself cross over into the spirit world.

And what she was shown transformed her life going forward. Susan is now an [00:01:00] internationally recognized intuitive medium and inspirational speaker who has also completed her doctorate of divinity with the renowned Dr. Raymond Moody, the founder of the studies in near death experiences. 

She is also a certified professional with a background in counseling who offers services in mediumship, life coaching, and as an intuitive, clairvoyant. Certified hypnotherapist, Reiki master, spiritual coach, and teacher of the metaphysical arts, along with other healing modalities. As you can tell, Susan is a healer and has been a healer her entire life.

She believes she's always possessed these extraordinary gifts. But her first memory began when she was that small child. In her new book, Infinite life, infinite lessons, wisdom from the spirit world on living, dying, and the in between.

Susan offers. profound insights into your soul's journey, the process of healing from grief and the mysteries of the afterlife. Whether you're grappling with the loss of a loved one, seeking [00:02:00] answers to life's mysteries, interested in near death experiences, or looking to deepen your spiritual awareness, infinite life, infinite lessons provides the clarity, wisdom, and solace needed for your journey.

It is an insightful guide into the often misunderstood realm of the spirit world. You will gain a deeper understanding of the afterlife and tools for connecting with angels, spirit guides, and souls on the other side. Throughout this book, Susan shares her deeply personal struggles, near death experience and stories of the thousands she's helped as an evidential medium.

We'll be talking all about it and how you can better navigate your own journey in this lifetime and ultimately understand that you are enough . You are loved and you are not alone. Let's get going. Hi, Susan. 

Karen: Hi. Welcome. Thank you. Susan and I are I'm so excited about your book.

We've both been talking about it leading up to today and the genuineness that you tell your story. 

Robyn: And speaking of that, your [00:03:00] story in itself is remarkable. you have walked the seeker's walk already and continue to, can you start by talking about that near death experience as a child?

Susan: Of course. And thank you for that beautiful introduction. I appreciate it. 

Robyn: There's so much to say.

Susan: I was four and a half years old, tipping on five. and I was playing Fort with some boys. And they told me that if I got up in the freezer in the garage and got popsicles, that they would let me play Fort longer. And of course, being that age, I wanted to play for it.

That was the big thing, especially in our big grove that we had. And so I climbed up in the freezer unbeknownst to me, it was not plugged in. And I was a little young to understand there weren't going to be popsicles up there because I remembered it being plugged in the , not too distant past.

So up in it, I went started calling out different, what flavors do you want? kind of, yum do you want? And I got up inside facing inward, trying to reach up. To the top and where I thought the [00:04:00] popsicles might be because I didn't see them and I heard the freezer door close and it pinned me between the door and the inserts, the shelves and I thought I was in on a game.

I honestly thought it was a game and I thought I was part of the game and everything was okay. And then I heard the thud of the garage door. And I realized this was not a game. And I immediately innately knew, I don't know how at that age, but I knew I was in dire danger. I knew I was trapped. I felt like an animal in a cage.

I was terrified and I started screaming. My mother heard the screaming and we had a lot of land and just to be real, the sound of cats and heat is a very high pitch sound and that's the sound of te It's the highest pitch you can imagine. And it is just utter, I can't, it's nothing we do normally or naturally.

And she heard that and she ignored it. She thought it was the kittens or the [00:05:00] cats. My next thing I remember was seeing three lights, three beautiful bright lights. And the freezer lit up, it was that bright. And that was part of the fear was the dark. So I silenced for one heartbeat, but then I went back to screaming at the top of my lungs and I heard stop screaming. 

was a kid. So I thought I'm not going to stop screaming. I screamed louder and higher. And then I heard this very powerful voice say to me, stop screaming. We're going to get your mommy. And it got that, but first feeling, but first, but I didn't say it first. And there I was at the bottom of this stairway.

And I looked up and I'm going to describe it as an adult woman because otherwise wouldn't understand a child sees things metaphorically and very differently, but it all has the same meaning. I saw a Greco Roman room and it had pillars and they were broken and in the top there was this open ceiling and it was.

It's just open to affinity, eternity. And I [00:06:00] knew somehow that at the bottom of these stairs, that if I got to the top inside there would be a hole or what I call a well. And I didn't know why I felt compelled, but I wanted to be there. And the minute I thought it, I was at the edge of this well inside this room and I had no fear, which is so strange because, falling in a well would be very frightening.

I Later on in life, I said to Dr. Moody Raymond, why didn't I see the tunnel? why does everybody else get to see a tunnel? And I didn't get to see a tunnel. And he said, maybe your tunnel's the well. 

Nothing: And 

Susan: he said, we've heard it called many different things, Susan, very kind, decent man, truly amazing man.

He was my bucket list. I was looking down inside this well and I saw words and what I consider to be prayers, which I understood what prayers were. And I was hearing things like my mom has cancer, God, please heal her or don't let her die. It was one consciousness that was coming at the same time.

It's the only way I can explain it. And it was spinning together like [00:07:00] DNA. Looking back. And I heard a kid say, I'm going to turn 16 and I want a car and my dad won't give me a car. God, convinced him to give me a car and just all these different things that my mommy and daddy are going to divorce, please, don't let that happen.

Of course, I didn't know what that meant, but I knew it was one consciousness. And I looked over at the angels the lights, what I call my angels. And I said, do you answer all those? And they said, no, Susie, sometimes what people desire the most isn't good for them. And I didn't like hearing that.

That was something my mom would say to me and I wasn't really sure why they were saying it. And I thought, where's my mommy here? and I saw some other things in that room that were quite profound. And then I looked in front of me and I saw this beautiful road. I called it the yellow brick road because it was golden.

And I had seen the Wizard of Oz. And just to preface it, this later on in life, I was in my late forties, I was in church. We wanted our children to learn everything. And I heard this preacher say, and the [00:08:00] paths were paved in gold. I'm going to tell you, he was reading this from a Bible. I almost fell off because I had never read the Bible.

I almost fell off my seat. was overwhelmed. what? I looked at my husband like, what did you know this? And he said, yeah, I guess he thought I did. But anyway going back, I saw these humans, what I would say humans, spirits, pulling from the bottom of this pyramid.

And they were pulling these papers and they were beginning to pave their path and it was bumpy and crooked and out of sync. And I innately knew that this pyramid was the life journey. And what happens when you pull from the bottom of a pyramid, you unbalance it. And it was very clear to me, my little soul, and again, metaphorically, I didn't even know it was metaphorical at the time, I can tell you that now.

To me it was just all real. and very, succinct. And I saw them praying, please come help me for the love of God, do something. And I watched these beautiful angels come in and start removing the pavers off the path and putting them back to the bottom of the pyramid, knowing they were [00:09:00] rebalancing their life journey.

And they went to the top of the pyramid. And as they would pull from these pavers, I watched them recreate themselves as though you have other choices. And looking back, I understand that now, but I didn't then it was just like, Oh, there they are again. And I watched them start paving the path. And I asked, what are you doing?

And they said, we are the pavers, you are not. All you have to do is walk it. And I said, how do you know if you're walking it right? And they said, and I know they put these questions in my head. I want to say that because I don't think a child I guess a child could ask that. I was pretty precocious, but I still think they did.

And they said We bless and block everything and make no mistake. You can get through a block battered and bruised at best, or you can shift. And if you see another block or wall, shift again. And if you see another one, shift again. And before you know it, you'll see us paving your path. We know what's best for you.

You think you know what's best for 

Karen: you. Wow. 

Susan: Wow. Which is very powerful. Yes. And I didn't understand the power of that of course, [00:10:00] but I do now and I have for a long time. Thank you. And I didn't listen, by the way, just want to say that I did my own journey and it was quite crooked. And they said, what you try to control controls you 

group: and 

Susan: what you run from chases you.

And we want you to always remember. And I never forgot that, although I tried to control everything in my life and what I didn't like I ran from, I did everything the opposite of what they said because I was having a human experience. And I needed to do it that way. That was my journey and my lessons, but I never forgot what they said.

So later on in life, when I tried to control everything in my life, I infinitely remembered everything they said. And that was one of the things I remembered. And I finally let go of control completely, never, mostly yes. 

Karen: It's like , that was your message from them. That was part of why that experience happened, right?

So that they could plant that seed. So when those experiences came in your life, you would have that in the back of your mind. 

Susan: Yes. And it was just such a powerful. thing to hear because even as a little child, I was [00:11:00] trying to control everything around me. I was being abused. So I was trying to control that and watch out where I am and not go to certain places and then go there because I wanted to be loved.

And that was the way I saw love. And so I was always controlling and running and controlling and running. So it made so much sense to me already. But just not to the point of, Taking action on it. So there were more things that they said to me in that space, that beautiful space. And then I flashed into another room called the room of knowledge.

Very powerful and I saw what I would call families Making and I saw there was no virtual then so I don't want to use that word But I have to it was as though things were flying at them very gently, ever so slightly coming at them. They seemed like tablets. And somebody asked me on a podcast do you think that was like the tablets from the 10 commandments, the same look?

And I thought, Oh, how interesting, because I never thought of it that way, but maybe but they were tablets or books of tablets and they were coming at them. And [00:12:00] I knew their previous life journeys and then choices. And they were filling out these tablets, so to speak, in their minds.

And I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do that, and I heard the angels and guides say, Oh no, sweetie, that's a little much. We don't want you to do all that in one lifetime. You have many choices you can make and you have free will there and blah, blah, blah. And I was just overwhelmed by what they were saying because I thought.

 I don't want to do all that's a lot to take on. And they would say, I can do it. I know I can do it. I can handle it. And that's what I call the PhD in hardship on this journey. I can do it. I know I can. And they paused. And they said, you have free will. And then they were gone.

And then another group would be there. And this was going on in all different areas. So I was seeing groups, not just one group, but the one group I was watching and listening to. I always wonder if it happened to be mine. 

Robyn: was thinking that, 

Susan: yeah. And I never said that in my book, but I always have thought that I wonder if that was mine. They were [00:13:00] showing me my choices and what I had decided on. With my family, because there were so many different groups that they were at a distance and then another one would come forward. And I asked, where did they go?

And they said they went to their next incarnation. Now you have to understand, I didn't know what that meant and I went, oh, okay. Yeah. I was going to say what five year old is going to know that, right? 

Karen: But later. that you still remember so vividly. That, which you had no understanding of, I think, tells us how truthful this experience actually was for you.

Susan: I think what made me remember so much more vividly was when I got back here and I was older and someone said to me, do you believe in reincarnation? My whole body went, wham. Wow. I went what? I've never heard this word. I was blown away because then I, it all came to light. it all flashed in front of me again.

And I had remembered incarnations. So that was like, wow, what a wake up aha moment for me. And this happened throughout my life. It wasn't that I remembered it so clearly and perfectly. It's just that all [00:14:00] the aha moments made it make sense. So then bam, the memory is even stronger. And so my next. Feeling was this feeling of moving I say popped into because I was a child, but moving into another room and that room was the room of companions and I felt this amazing, beautiful feeling and I had never lost an animal that I saw there, like a dog, cat, horse, things like that.

I did lose a rat when I was little, but I didn't see any rats. I just have to be honest. That doesn't mean they're not there. It was my pet rat. It was white. And my dad, he was a laboratory man. So obviously I would walk them on a leash and I didn't see them, but I did see a lot of beautiful creatures and animals and , they would go from this room, what I called a room, but it was really a field and it was covered in daisies.

And those dandelions that you blow on and make wishes. I saw those and I saw these creatures, down to. Honestly, bears and just creatures sitting in these fields. And they were all getting [00:15:00] along and they were all happy. and I couldn't see my physical body, but I can tell you, I knew I was little and I knew I was sitting.

So it was just a knowing. And I saw this beautiful dog. now know was a wolf. I'm extremely attached to them. I actually have been in the presence of them physically one on one they jumped up and looked at me and then sat down and put their ears back and allowed me to touch them.

It was amazing. I didn't want to leave this beautiful giant dog, wolf, whatever, people want to call it. It was, it sounds so woo when I say wolf, I'm almost embarrassed, but it was a wolf . And I was sitting there and I looked to my left and I saw, I probably will cry and I'll have to grab a Kleenex. Sitting on this ground, I looked up and I saw on this mountain, this beautiful being, and it was all love. And all I wanted to do was climb up that mountain, and get up there. But of course I knew I couldn't, and it was light. now people ask me about the light there. And they say, do angels [00:16:00] have wings?

I want to explain that really briefly before I continue is when an angel opens, to you. It is pure light. So if you think about pure light and how it sends rays, what does it look like?

So do I know if they have wings? I don't. Does it look like they do? Yes, because it's just this a light that pours out of every minuscule part of them. So this being I wanted to get up there so badly. I wanted to feel that love. And it started coming towards me like a beam of wonder, pure love. And I remember feeling this feeling of perfect.

I'm perfect in every way. I was enough. I was lovable. I was worthy. I was capable. I was everything you don't feel here. And it shrouded me with love. there was not a single [00:17:00] feeling of being anything but perfect, I was everything, but I was nothing. I was that pure.

And I don't know how else to explain it. To be everything and be nothing.

And then Something was said to me, very powerful, very personal about who I was that I'll never forget as long as I exist . Not as long as I live, as long as I exist, which will be forever. Yeah. And then I looked to my right and there was this beautiful angel, like she was floating and she came out of this beautiful cottage. 

I saw her coming towards me and all I could think of was, I want to float. I probably was floating, but all I could think of is, I want to float. Can I float? . It was just so awe inspiring to see something floating. And it was the first thing I saw floating besides the love. And I felt like the animals were romping and playing and they had legs.

. So this was the first thing that I actually saw floating. And she said to me. It's time to go. And of course there's all this stuff in between this, but it would be hours and then the [00:18:00] next thing I knew I was by a river and she was telling me about my life and she said, you're going to have some hardships, but you will have free will to decide how you're going to deal with those hardships, hence the free will involved in our planned journey.

And I want to say that it's very clear to me what that means. We have doors we can open and what door we choose decides what we learn with our journey. However, the journey will be there because that's the planned event. Yes. So she told me that I was going to have some very big difficulties and I didn't like that and I didn't think I wanted to come back, but then she told me I was going to see my mommy.

So I thought, Oh, I'm going to go back. 

Robyn: would you say this being was an angel or was a spirit guide 

Susan: angel? It was an angel. Yeah. It was definitely an angel. And the light coming off of her was unbelievable. Wow. Expansed. there's no word 

Robyn: just from your own emotion.

That frequency of that energy is still with you on a cellular level. Absolutely. She feels like 

Karen: [00:19:00] your guardian angel to me. Yeah, I love that. and really telling you, reminding you of why you were going back. 

Susan: Yes. My guardian angel's name's Alana. So I think that's very possible. And And she said, we all go through water and we all go through cleansing. And I was like, why do you need to cleanse? I'm like, I'm in this really great place, but I guess I'm dirty. I was sitting in the field.

My mom won't like me dirty. I had all these thoughts going through my head, but I understand now what she means. is that we come into this world pure. It's a pureness, but the world taints us because it's meant to, but we start out pure and we leave pure, is amazing, and then I also, later on in life recognize that I came in a womb filled with embiotic fluid, which is like water, so that made total sense.

Then later on, I was looking at the English translation for the French word. I want to say that because a French woman who was very upset with me because I [00:20:00] said this without saying the English translation of the French word, Claire. Which is clairvoyance. Claire, that Claire is a very powerful thing in our field.

It means clear. It also means water. Oh, English translation. I blew my mind. Look at, see, I did the same thing. I did not know 

Karen: that the French word for water 

Susan: is yes, but in the English translation, literally says clear. And then in quotations, water clear, like water. So that's the English to help you understand what clear is.

Anyway this whole time, my mother was hearing you babies in the freezer, your babies in the freezer, and she's hearing this 

Karen: telepathically. 

Susan: She's hearing, I can see my mom, by the way. Really? Yes. I think it was my first real understanding of how to connect. 

Nothing: Wow. 

Susan: You were remote viewing without.

Yeah. Knowing you were remote viewing. Yeah. I was seeing her and I was talking to her and I could tell she was moving around when I was talking to her, [00:21:00] but I thought she was hearing me, but I don't know for sure. She never told me that. So she said The third time she heard it, she decided she better do something.

And this was a long time later. She couldn't tell me how long, but she knew. Yeah. I was going to say, how 

Robyn: long were you in that freezer? 

Susan: They say anywhere from 20 minutes to two hours. I'm sure it's somewhere in between. 

Karen: Oh, 

Susan: and they only know that because the boys went out to play. Then they went home. 

Karen: So the boys never said anything at all?

Susan: No. 

Karen: Wow. 

Susan: My mom came out now. I don't know this exact. Next step, I have to say, she had a thought, because I remember her telling me this, but she's not here for me to verify. I couldn't open that garage door, it would be too heavy for a little girl. 

 So she thought, I'm just going to turn around.

And then she decided against it. Something in her gut told her to open it up. So she opened the garage door. She went to the freezer. It was supposed to be bolted and turned around towards the wall, which it was not. We weren't allowed to play in there. There was a boat in there with nobody parked their [00:22:00] cars in there.

And she said, she opened up the freezer door and I was facing inwards, turned me around and I was ashen with blue fingers. 

Nothing: And 

Susan: she said she panicked. There were no cell phones. There were no garage doors. She's dropped me to run to get a phone in her panic. I fell and hit my chin. I still have my little scar and hit it hard enough on the cement to crack it open and I took a breath.

Wow. Wow. And here I am. When I felt better and, woke up from all of that. I could see spirits everywhere. Now, prior to that, again, I remember seeing animals float when they would die. we had creatures on our land, so I had the, ability to see those things happen in the wildlife.

And I would see them float. And that was normal for you, right? That was probably, yeah, I didn't think anything. 

Karen: so following this experience, then Susan, when you say you saw spirit what does that mean? I saw 

Susan: people, I thought they were people looking in my window under my bed saying, hello, the corner of the room.

I heard [00:23:00] hello, the rest was all mumbling these people were looking at me and they were looking again through the windows into the bed and the corner of the room down the hallway. I would literally stand and cry for my mom to come get me.

And even though they didn't hurt me, I thought they were the boogeyman. Not boogeyman, boogeymen, and women. And I would cover my head and say, go away. And I would beg for them to go away. And I know they backed away, but they didn't go away. And this kept happening for a long time.

Then it started to be, wake up. I just died. My name is blah, blah, blah. And you're going to hear so and so sister's brother's best friend died and I'm that person and they think I killed myself or they think I did it and I did not. And you need to tell them it was an accident and I would be okay, but I never wrote it down because I was still young.

Or I'd be playing with friends and I'd say, your grandma wants to play. And they'd go, you're so mean. And I got punched for it and told I was really mean and her grandma just died.

And how could I be so mean? But she wanted to play with us. And my mom would [00:24:00] tell me, don't talk about it. . My mom was locked up because she saw things and she had a nervous breakdown. 

Robyn: Wow. know in your book you are able to share that with your sister, but other than that, you really 

Susan: had to keep it 

Robyn: quiet.

Susan: Yeah. My sister had the gift. My brother had the gift and my, but my brother became schizophrenic. So they say, so they medicated him. You can't talk about those things and those things weren't real and fortunately that's changing. Thank goodness. 

Nothing: Yes. 

Susan: I used to play with them though, in what my family called the creepy room.

And I used to play like the Beatles and we'd rock out and have all this fun, and I'd be married to Paul and they'd be married to Ringo or vice versa, and we'd have kids together. And then I'd realize they, they weren't there. And I would pretend my dad, as if they didn't know this, I'd pretend my dad was in the shower and I'd go, I know you're an expert in judo karate and Aikido daddy, which he was.

And I know you're in the shower and that, that would make them realize, Oh, she's scared. Cause they knew he wasn't in the shower. They know what's going on and they'd move away. And then as [00:25:00] soon as I'd calm down and start playing again, they'd play again with me. And so that's why my family called it the creepy room.

Cause I was talking to things that weren't there. Yeah. 

 . My sister doesn't have the same, she's the one that's still here. So I do want to preface it that with my sister does not have the same exact gift of mediumship, but she is a definitely what I would call a medical intuitive.

Wow. And she doesn't do it for a living, but she used to, and she's a healer. She helps people heal everywhere she goes. So you know that's the power of my sister. So my brother of course died by suicide and that's been, both of my brothers and my mother, and that's been a long journey for me and my sister.

So we became better people for it. 

Robyn: When you talk about that You survived so much trauma and grief and that through those experiences. They opened you up. Obviously, you already had this connection and that experience, but for others that trauma and grief can lead you on this path of trying to [00:26:00] understand more.

Karen: Susan to people who are listening. I think many of us understand why you would want to shut that down pretty radically and not look at it. what got you to that place where you were finally able to open up to the fact that yes, I am a medium and own that and try to get over that judgment that may or may not have come as a result of you being out there telling your story.

Susan: so I don't think I had an option. I don't think I did anything special. I think I was a medium and I couldn't not be. So I became a grief and addiction counselor. I'm a grief specialist and that opened the door for me to say, Oh, this happened and they'd go, I didn't tell you that.

And I'd I'm sure you did, and I'd start backing away just in stress. And I didn't want to be locked up or had my license taken away. But then people would say, I'm sending my mom to you. You can't know this. My mom needs to hear this. And then it would just travel from there. So it came naturally, but I didn't talk about it.

I got married, and I would have a [00:27:00] visitation, and I was wide awake, always. Very rarely now, later on in life, they have to wake me, because I know they're coming, so I'm not wide awake. I go to sleep anyway. But when I was young, I was wide awake, and my husband would be sleeping next to me, and I'd have this visit and then I'd wake him up and say, I can go to sleep now because 

I because I needed to tell someone something. because it was so overwhelming. The way that I actually got into some acceptance of it was that it became evident to me that the evidence was real. People would say to me that did happen. 

Nothing: That's 

Susan: exactly what our last conversation was.

How could you know that? And I'd be thinking, how could I know that? So the more real it became, the more I accepted it. and to answer the question about why we go through the things we go through, I think was 

Robyn: yeah, it was really about the trauma and the grief 

Susan: and how to get through it. I learned that pain was my greatest motivator for change.

So pain and joy are equal in value. They both teach us something. And in fact, I learned more from the pain because I want out. So I'll do anything to [00:28:00] learn how to get out of it. Do I feel that pain is part of our journey here? A hundred percent. Do I feel that we plan that a hundred percent? Do I feel we have free will of how we'll look at it and what we'll do with it?

A hundred percent. Now that might sound contradictory, but it's not. What they showed me was, is that we go through experiences. So looks like this. If you plan to be married, you'll be married. You might be 98. But you'll be married who you marry, how long you're married, the kind of marriage you have is free.

So you have doors in front of you and people tell me the doors are closed. I don't know what to do. And I say their doors open them. It's that simple. And when you open a door. You find that experience teaches you one thing and you might go, I don't like this. I'm going to go to the other door.

You open the other door. This feels about right to me. I'm going to let this teach me. Yeah. It's how it works. And that way in that marriage, our soul expands because without choices, there is no expansion and every door we open and every choice we make creates more expansion to our souls. And that's what they [00:29:00] taught me. 

Karen: Experience. Do you believe that we call in as we're planning our soul's journey in this human form? Do you believe that we also invite a certain number of grief opportunities or pain opportunities as well? Can you talk about that for just a second? 

Susan: I know that I hear a lot that people tell like parents who lose their Children, especially to dying by suicide.

 that this was their karmic event and they made this decision together. I think that's the furthest thing from the truth. I believe that they are going to learn about grief. The kind of intensity of grief that they're going to learn about has to do with the free will of the world. So my path has tremendous amount of suicide in it.

That's the truth. And I know that Maybe I wanted to learn about what that felt like to lose someone that way. I can't tell you for sure how that unfolded was not my planned event. And I really [00:30:00] believe that. 

Robyn: And you would say too, , in the case of one of your brothers, let's say, that wasn't necessarily part of their planned event, 

Susan: No. I don't. And I get a lot of flack from this, but I can't say it any other way. Maybe I was going to learn about suicide through my work. Maybe I was going to have a lot of clients that had that happen. Maybe that was the way it was going to happen. I believe we have free will and I believe that drugs and alcohol were not what they planned for us here.

And I believe that us killing ourselves is not what they planned for us here. Do we have exit points? Yes. So why did it have to be that one? That was a choice, and I do say this and I know right now the buzz is committed suicide is such a terrible thing to say because committed means crime. 

No it doesn't. I commit to my marriage. I commit to my children. I commit to my animals. I commit to my journey. I commit to a lot of things. That's one meaning of it is crime. And I believe in following the lead of the [00:31:00] person. That's speaking about it. So all of the therapists that are out there saying right now, it is wrong.

You have to say unalive to themselves or whatever it is they want them to say. It's the new thing. I feel very insulted by that because I am a survivor of five suicides, three of which were in my body. immediate family. If I say committed suicide, that's because that's what's comfortable to me.

Follow the lead of the person. So if a person comes to me and says, my daughter unalived herself, I'm going to say, I see that your daughter or my daughter died by suicide. I say your daughter suicide. I follow the lead because we have been judged so immensely and intensely, and we judge ourselves for having all of this loss.

We don't need more judgment on how we speak of it. . So I do want to say that, that be careful what you teach people out there. You may believe you're doing the right thing, but please follow the lead of the person that has actually experienced it. 

Karen: That's a really good point. Just in what you were saying before, I [00:32:00] think a lot of people just wonder, did I sign up for this?

I hear that all the time. Did I actually sign up for this? And I don't think that's true either. I think we came here to have experience, like you were saying before, and look at the profound teacher now that you are because of the grief that you've been through, right? And whether that came through suicide or multiple other ways, it was the intensity of that.

Experience that allowed you to become that experiencer, right? So you can relate to other people. So 

Susan: right. I think that I watched parents when they're told that their children made a pact with them and this was a planned event for their karmic growth. I watched their faces. 

And the pain and agony, I would never want my child to die that way and make that plan.

I'd be a monster. Yeah. Maybe the spirit world loves us. They don't want us to go through something so horrendous. Yes, we have to learn about death and grief. We're learning about it our whole journey from the moment we're [00:33:00] born. We grieve coming out of the womb. And, so our grief begins and it never ends.

We grieve when our mom takes our bottle away and yes, there's small when people say to me, I have no touchstone to understand how to grieve. I say, Oh, but you do. You've been grieving your whole life and even though there's small griefs, they have led you to this and to understand this.

So let's tap on that. Let's go into that. Or they'll call me and say, I'm frozen. I can't get out of bed. And I'll say, you don't have to today. What I want you to do. Can you move your foot out from under the covers? Oh, I can do that. Susan. Good. That's your next right step. Call me in 15 minutes and they call me again and I'll say, can you move your leg out from under the covers?

I can do that. Good. Call me in 15 minutes. That's your next right step. And I do that until they're standing. And I do that until they're walking into the shower. What you find is you just have to take the next right step to heal.

And I know this from my own experience. Exactly. Because when they first [00:34:00] pass anyone we love, the hustle and bustle keeps you moving. Your adrenaline's going, you're lacking, your denial, which is what you need, which is given to us. Thank you. God was given to us in order to get through that first stage of the funerals and whatever it is we're doing celebrations of life, but then when that's over and everything starts to fade, all the friends are gone and the family goes home.

It's just us and the reality. 

So we want to move them through that. And does it sound depressing? Yes. Does it sound like there's a way out? Yes. So there is a positive to these changes and these things that we need to do. 

Robyn: You use the term exit points and for some people listening, they may not have heard that term before.

Can you explain what you meant by that? 

Susan: So I was suicidal until I was 36 years old, almost. I'm probably closer to 38, but it's in my book. I'm not ashamed of it. I didn't like being on this planet. I didn't understand, but I knew I had to hold on. And that's what I want to tell people who want out, hold on because everything changes.

[00:35:00] Emotions are, they're up and down and up and down. They change. Things change. Everything changes. Give it a minute and you'll find that you may feel differently. And we think we're stuck in that feeling forever. We're just trying to escape the feeling, the pain. And this is the thing about suicide. The pain doesn't go away.

It simply is transferred to the people who are alive, the people you love, the people you want to love and take care of. So you have to think about that before you make those choices. And I want to say that it's so important. But for me, everything I did was. Covered in this feeling of, I hate it here. I don't like it here. I I'm in pain. All these things are happening. I'm suffering. And I just kept having to tell myself there's a new happening going on and I'm growing from this and I'm making changes from this. So I could have very easily had that exit point every single day.

I had a brain tumor. When I had my surgery, I remember having an experience where I had the chance to take that exit point, but I didn't. 

group: I 

Susan: knew my husband and children needed [00:36:00] me. I actually woke up from my surgery. I find this so funny and it was dark and I know it's not black there, but I thought maybe I'm in the tunnel.

And I said out loud, Oh my God, am I dead? And my girlfriend, who I didn't know was in the corner in the dark said I certainly effing hope not because if you are, it means I am. And I busted up laughing and it just brought me into the now, we have choices and I do believe we may have more than three exit points.

 , do you think you're, when 

Robyn: you were four and a half, when you had that experience, do you think that was potentially an exit point? Oh yeah. I do. 

Susan: Someone else asked me if I was meant to come back. I have to say I was because I did, but I do think it was an exit point. Absolutely. But it wasn't time.

Exactly. I think that's such a 

Robyn: great example. 

Karen: So Susan, for people who are listening, who may feel in pain themselves, who are going through grief, how, I love the phrase in your book when you say we can use grief to transform our pain into our biggest power. How does this work for you and how can that help others who might be also [00:37:00] navigating their grief?

Susan: Think about how empowered you feel and how powerful you feel when you get through something. If you're a painter and you finish the painting, how empowered you feel and how the feelings you have inside that happens to people with grief. And even though the grief doesn't leave, they recognize the power of the human spirit, the power of the soul.

We're not just souls having a human experience for humans, having a soul experience. So we have to blend those two. We have to recognize that. And when we do the power of our soul to survive anything. And everything is where the empowerment comes from. And when you get to that point that you recognize, I'm not just surviving, but I'm laughing, I'm dancing, I'm thriving, I'm loving I'm eating I'm doing life again.

How is that possible? Because a year ago, two, three years ago, I didn't think I'd ever breathe again. That's the power of the human spirit. Beautiful. And it comes naturally to us because we have a soul that is never damaged. Yes, it feels the wound, but it is never damaged. So I want people to [00:38:00] know that because if it was damaged and yours was damaged and mine was damaged, there'd be nowhere to go.

You can go inward into that soul source. Your soul is the divine vine to the divine. you take a leaf and put it in your hand. And it's just a leaf, right? It doesn't mean it's not special, but it's just a leaf. But if you hold it up to the light, it's full of veins. It's a vine to the divine. It's a vine to lifeblood.

That is your soul connected to the spirit world. It is filled with vines, filling you at all times with answers and safety and love and the mechanisms you need. To heal. And so it is always there for you. And it steps in once you get through the traumatic part, overwhelming part, it is there the whole time, but it steps in then because you allow it in to help you get to the other side.

That's very empowering. 

Robyn: And you also, you're talking about souls. You say there are no evil souls. And some people may be surprised by that. 

Susan: [00:39:00] First of all, they created it and they're the lifeblood and they'd have to be evil to pump evil into our souls. That's number one.

Number two, evil is in the minds of mankind and humankind. Evil is our experiences that we choose here. It is what we choose to do with it. There's a brokenness in the heart. There's a broken hearts. They're so powerful that you can die for one. Think how powerful that is. There are broken spirits. Spirit is the breath of life.

Our spirit comes in when we take that breath. Our soul is already there, but our spirit is the breath. 

Robyn: Ooh, I love that differentiator. 

Susan: And the mind. is always broken because we're dysfunctional and we live in a dysfunctional world. But the soul is not. So evil seats in the mind and in that breath of life possibly, and I believe evil actually comes from a broken brain.

That's what I believe. So I worked with sociopathy. I worked with narcissism and I worked with psychopaths as a counselor. And I can tell you. that [00:40:00] the evil was not in their soul. It was in their minds. They have cut off from their soul source. Their minds have shut it off. It's there, but they can't reach it.

There is no integration where a person who thinks bad thoughts is integrated with their souls and they go, I feel so bad. And so that's the difference. But the soul, when it crosses over has to face, unfortunately, what the brokenness did. We step into that and we have to look at it, but it's not a punishment.

It's something we choose because we want to understand our choices so that we don't repeat them. So we do see it and it goes by very fleeting. It's like moments. It's like a shower that washes over us. And I think that's what they mean by the cleansing by the way, but as a shower that washes over us to cleanse us and we remember every harm, our journey goes through us.

Do we suffer? No. It is to say, Ooh, I wish I would have done that differently. And I can on my next incarnation. Don't want that to happen. [00:41:00] Now, I still believe that the brain is broken. We can make choices. A psychopath can decide not to kill a sociopath, can decide not to cause total damage to the people that love them.

They may not care about love, but they can learn. A narcissist can learn how not to respond to their narcissism, and I will tell you they do. Wow. I know people who are complete narcissists that go to therapy their whole lives and they still feel like reacting like a narcissist, but they don't react. They learn how to take a different action.

Now the psychopath doesn't learn that, but they don't all kill. They don't all need to. And some of them don't want to. They may feel the need to and want to, but they don't want to outwardly. So they learn not to by getting help. 

Karen: Another thing, I've just never looked at it that way before.

That's really mind blowing. They still think about it. 

Susan: Do you think something 

Robyn: causes from a psychopath perspective, do you think that they were born that way? 

Susan: I think psychopaths were born that way.[00:42:00] 

I believe sociopaths were partially born and created by whatever happened in their life. And narcissism is a creation of their journey. I think they have a propensity for it because I had a very hard journey and I didn't become a narcissist. So I think they have a propensity for it. There's something missing in the brain.

There's something not quite there that connects them to the soul. I'm so connected to my soul that I couldn't possibly cause harm and be happy with it. 

If you are a narcissist sociopath and or a psychopath.

The why doesn't really matter. It's the how and the what at that point. If you want to do it differently, you have to figure out what is going on with me. What are these thoughts I'm having and how do I change them at the moment? And if you can do that, you're going to not take the action. So the goal of teaching someone who has these things is to try to get them not to take the action. Does it always work? No. It does not. That's why we have them out there killing and causing harm to children and so on because it doesn't always work.

But if they [00:43:00] truly desire, which some of them do, I've seen it. Wow. They get therapy. They continue therapy. They make shifts. They don't change, but they change their choices. Remember the doors, the free will. They can open the door and go murder someone, or they can open the door that says, I'm going to call my therapist right now because I want to murder someone, 

Robyn: can you talk about what soul contracts are in your opinion?

Susan: A soul contract is something that you pre plan to experience here. in some form that has free will involved so that you can open different doors to learn different ways. What that looks like, because there is nothing that I've ever done that I've learned only one way. I can change that at any moment.

I can be on the phone with someone and be angry. Like maybe I'm on the phone with my kid and I'm having an argument at any moment, I can say, pause. I am reacting instead of taking proper appropriate action. I can pause and say to my child, I don't like what's happening here. We're going [00:44:00] down a wrong road.

I'm judging. I'm reacting. Can we start over? So a contract might be, again, I have a contract to have a child, the age I'm at when I have the child, right? who I have the child with, et cetera, et cetera, might be my free will choices.

 I'm going to be real, real here. I may want one, but at 19, I'm not ready. And I have an abortion, That's a free will choice. Now, does that child feel that? No, that child already knew it wasn't going to walk this planet. So the child that came into you, they know the beginning, the middle, and the end.

They already know they're not going to walk the planet with you, but you don't know that, So you're opening up a door and making a choice. So see how free will together mixes also the planned event. Yeah. 

Robyn: Wow. And I go to your. Visual, like what you saw in your near death experience and you saw those tablets coming at whomever.

That's what I picture. Do you want that? Do you want that? And then when you talk about soul family, Those are people that would you [00:45:00] say we have agreements with to come in and you may or may not have certain relationships with 

Susan: them? Yes. And so a soul family is one of the vines.

 I said there are vines. Soul family is one of those vines into our soul. So we have a soul tie with them. People always talk about soulmates and I go you might want to think twice about that because a soulmate teaches you your hardest lessons, Think about the soulmates you've had.

Where you just Ooh, man, they're painful because we're meant to learn lessons from them. But the soul tie is our soul family, has a lifeblood that never leaves. 

Karen: you talk so much about intuition and what that means and how that really is the gateway into understanding while we're here, if you are interested in learning more about mediumship, it all really starts with intuition.

Intuition, and I think everybody can understand that at that level, and that's even just starting there for people to even know how to tune into [00:46:00] that is a huge tool to give to people 

Susan: I think everybody needs to understand the difference between fear and intuition. It's the hardest thing we do. It's is that my fear or am I intuitively getting, and just to shorten it for just one second, is dark.

Fear is frightening. Fear is ugly. Fear tells you're in trouble when you don't need to be. It's like somebody walks out of their house and they stand on their porch and you go, he's here for me and you start running and he's still standing on his porch or somebody's following behind you and you take off.

That is good fear. Illusory fear is, I just got this feeling, oh my God, it's, oh, what if it's real? What if is your fear base? Projection is fear. Okay. Being in the now is intuition right now. you get a hit. Ooh, that person isn't safe. Takes action on it. Your fear will change your mind.

It'll actually tell you that he is safe or she is safe when they're not because your mind gets in the way. So you go by that initial hit. Intuition comes in smooth and easy. Fear comes in dark and heavy.

Robyn: That is so good. I can't wait to actually to even share [00:47:00] that with my daughter who has major anxiety and can't sometimes tell the difference. That was really helpful. 

Karen: That was a real takeaway for me in the book because a lot of people prevent that.

They're like, what does your intuition tell you? But then their head immediately clicks in with the fear like but you better not, but I'll do that. Did you hear your 

Susan: starting of your sentence? 

What does your intuition tell you? That's what I'm talking about. It's it's a knowing. It is not a what if, or what does, or what do you think?

That's your brain. The knowing is, boom, there it is. Yes. And it's almost like a boom, but it's gentle and soft and easy knowing intuition is a knowing I know I cannot get in my car right now. I know that person is not healthy for me now. What am I going to do with that? Am I going to listen and back away and pause because you're not judging, you're in discernment or am I going to actually jump into my head and convince myself that I'm wrong?

Yeah. Which am I going to [00:48:00] choose? 

Robyn: We've been talking about some of the concepts that are in your book, and what everyone should know is throughout your book you have these exercises and questions for the person reading to really Start to investigate their own journey and their own beliefs and how people can apply so much of what you have learned to their lives so that they can have this more fulfilling journey and we say fulfilling fulfill some of these concepts that they came here to achieve in this lifetime. 

As someone who actually has been a seeker for quite some time, I still, even though some of these concepts familiar to me, those exercises I feel have been Very helpful in my own life because it's obviously coming to me at the right time. Do you have one?

Exercise that you would be able to share with people that are listening right now 

Susan: My goal is to get [00:49:00] people to have affirmation work Self love is the true soul purpose when you get down to the bottom line, knowledge and self love.

Those are the two most important soul purposes. So yes, our life purpose guides us to that, which is, getting married, having children, all these other things we do, buying homes, marrying people, those kinds of things. And then you have your soul purpose, and that's to learn to be.

In self care, self love and have knowledge about who you are. And so affirmations help you get there. to understand the value of you. I will tell you that when I felt that pure love coming towards me, I was affirmed and there is nothing more powerful than that. And when you can wake up in the morning and say, I have value.

I am worthy. I am lovable. I'm capable. I'm enough. When you start working those tools, I call all of those questions, a toolbox. And it's their tools when you work them to fill your [00:50:00] box. So when something happens. This is how it works for me. Something happens. I picture a toolbox. I start throwing the tools out.

That won't work. That won't work that well. There it is. And I grabbed that tool and I'll use it because I tell people, if I give you a broken screwdriver and every time you walk past a light switch, it shocks you. And you take that screwdriver out of your toolbox and you try to get that to not shock you.

It's going to keep shocking you over and over because you have a broken tool. So the whole goal of those. Questions and those exercises is to give you tools, the most important one being self love. So I love the one that says, I feel, I am, I experience, and this is later on in the book when you've done all the other work I wish, I have dreams of, I hope.

These are powerful things to know because we just say, Oh, I wish this and then it's gone. Everything's fleeting that goes through us. But when you write that down on paper and you recognize here it is in front of me, this is what my dream is for my journey and for my soul. It's very powerful.

Robyn: Yeah, [00:51:00] and you're important enough, those listening and watching know you're important enough to have that recorded, however that is for you. You're writing it down or wherever you save that. Take the time to do it. It's important for your soul. 

Susan: Yes. Someone told me they read through the book and went back into the exercises and it was wonderful for them.

And I almost did it that way, but I thought, no, when they go to do the exercises, they won't know where to go. So that's why I did it the way I did it. But if you read through the book and go back, it's really helpful. I think that understanding what those exercises mean and why they're so important to apply to your journey comes with doing them.

That's why I have integration moments before that, because it makes you think before you step into those exercises. 

Karen: and they're very simple. they don't take a lot of time. They're very insightful. It's a beautiful book, Susan, so much information in it, but it was a really painful journey for you to go through all those experiences. Again, for you to revisit all that.

So why did you write this book and what were you hoping that [00:52:00] the takeaway would be for the reader? 

Susan: I wrote the book because I knew this message needed to be out and spirit told me, when I heard you have to write that your book now it's time. I said, are you crazy? I'm not a writer.

And they said, it's time. And I said, I'm not a writer. says to me now you are now so interesting. My goal was to reach people with truth, spiritual truth, the spirit world's truth, That I saw. And that doesn't make me right. I honor everyone's belief system. I truly do. But I just know what they wanted me to say and I listened to them the whole time I was writing it.

It was so important to me to hear what they wanted everyone to hear. I wrote it because I know how broken this journey takes us to the breaking point. I wrote it because I know that some people feel like they don't want to be here. I wrote it because I knew there were mothers out there suffering. I wrote it because grief is so prominent in our journey.

I wrote it because we [00:53:00] fear death and I wanted people not to have to fear it. It's just like birth. have to say this birth and leaving this planet are Exactly the same. You fight coming out of the womb. You're scared. You don't know what's happening. You pop out and you're grabbed and it's cold and you're prodded and you're poked and then you get wrapped in a blanket of love and you're set into your mother's arms and you feel wonderful and beautiful and safe and secure.

Death is the same way. You're fighting it. You're scared. You don't like the unknown. You don't know where you're going. You get there. They wrap you in a blanket of love. And you know right where you are and you know you're safe. And I wanted people to know this and really hear the details of that. , 

Robyn: I love the way you put that and the way that your book takes people on a journey and you do, you make it all comfortable. You give people such knowledge about what feels so unknown. And then also it gives them knowledge of [00:54:00] themselves ultimately, which really every person watching or listening.

We can't recommend this book enough. it's important. Karen and I are always talking about this beginner seeker journey, someone who's just opened the door. They may not even realize they're opening the door, but they're at a crossroads in their life for whatever reason.

And they're starting to just wonder what else is there? Why are they here? we believe. From reading your book, you give them the tools by sharing and being vulnerable about your own journey so far, and then also giving them these exercises and questions for them to then start to investigate themselves and why they are here, because we know we're all here on purpose, we all chose to be here to evolve as souls.

So what you've done is so important. 

Susan: Thank you. And I think the person that does understand it all, I really believe [00:55:00] in honoring and looking at and learning from other perspectives. And we are never done until we're gone. And then we're not done. And I was gonna say, and then we're not done.

And many people who are on their spiritual quest , like my students who have been doing this a long time, they'll literally say to me, I never thought to do this. I never really looked at it that way. I never, even though they're in a room with me and I'm talking about it, you forget it goes through you.

Karen: It's an incredible book and thank you for taking the journey, Susan. We know that it was hard, but it's going to help so many people, inspire so many people to seek more, to learn more, really.

Robyn: how can people work with you in addition to getting the book? 

Susan: I'm still doing private readings which I don't know how long I'll be able to do that. I do teach also. They go to Susan grau com, press the schedule now tap and it's there for them. And I'm Susan grau official shares everything.

So if I have discounts going on and I do a lot of free, I want to. I'm going to say this because [00:56:00] people go there and they go, Oh my gosh, I can't, afford this. I do a lot of free work. I only have certain amount of hours I can actually work to support myself. So my free work is with mothers who lose children.

I do a lot of events for that. I don't charge. I go away for four and five days. I pay for it myself. Just know that yes, I have to charge for my gift in order to offer it to the public. But I'm always there to work with people. 

Robyn: Thank you for all that you're doing. And just a reminder, the name of the book is Infinite Life, Infinite Lessons, Wisdom from the Spirit World on Living, Dying, and the In Between.

You can find that on Susan's website or wherever you buy your books. And we're just so grateful to be connected to you, Susan. 

Susan: Oh, thank you. And I just want to say I am doing the Grove in Los Angeles on October 26th. So I hope people watch my social media to do that with me. And if you love the book, , please review. it means so much that because other people then say, Oh, this book is light. I'm going to get it. And I want it to get out [00:57:00] there. 

Robyn: they're adding that to our list. We're doing that. Thank you. 

Susan: Thank you. I appreciate that so much.

Thank you, Susan. Thank you. It's been wonderful. I love you guys.