Using Astrology + Breathwork to Tap into Your Inner Wisdom - Episode 122

Karen and I are always looking for ways to help you discover more of who you are and why you are here. Which is why we can hardly wait to introduce you to Catie Macken. Catie is an Astrological Consultant, Breathwork Facilitator, and Intuitive Coach. She’s specifically working with organizations interested in investing in unique ways to engage with and support their employees. Her clients are under enormous pressure, navigating change and uncertainty, and feeling disconnected from a sense of purpose and meaning. Her multi-dimensional approach to personal growth is a guide to self-awareness, self-trust and acceptance.

We’ve had a chance to get to know and work with Catie. Her curious spirit, raw authenticity, and devotion to her clients and students is deeply felt. Her desire is to lead you on your path to transformation and create practical rituals for everyday life that inspire you to see life as a gift.

MORE FROM CATIE MACKEN

• Visit catiemacken.com to find out more about working with her and to subscribe to her Substack.
• Follow her on Instagram @catiemacken 

Visit theseekingcenter.com for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:45 Using Astrology + Breathwork to Tap into Your Inner Wisdom

Transcript

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to Seeking Center, the podcast. Join us each week as we have the conversations and we, through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know now, we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life.

Karen: On a physical, mental, and spiritual level, we'll talk to the trailblazers who'll introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences that may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center.

Robyn: And for the best wellness and spiritual practitioners, experts, products, experiences, and inspo, visit theseekingcenter. com. Karen and I are always looking for ways to help you discover more of who you are and why you are here, which is why we can hardly wait to introduce you to Catie Mackin. Catie is an astrological consultant, breathwork facilitator, and [00:01:00] intuitive coach. She's specifically working with organizations interested in investing in unique ways to engage with and support their employees.

Her clients are under enormous pressure, navigating change and uncertainty, and feeling disconnected from a sense of purpose and meaning. Her multi dimensional approach to personal growth is a guide to self awareness, self trust, and acceptance. We've had a chance to get to know and work with Catie.

Her curious spirit, raw authenticity, and devotion to her clients and students is deeply felt. her ability to use her intuition and integrate different spiritual practices Like astrology and tarot customized for you is extremely unique. Plus the way that she's able to teach you about these spiritual modalities as she's giving you soul level information makes your time together even more impactful.

We love that her desire is to lead you on your path to transformation and create practical rituals for everyday life that inspire you to see life as a gift. Let's get going. 

Catie: [00:02:00] Hi Catie. Hi Catie. Hi Karen. Hi Robyn. Thank you so much for having me. 

Karen: Oh, we're thrilled to have you.

We have so many questions. 

Robyn: And I love the word multi dimensional because that really is Yes, you are. And really how we should all be approaching this life, as a soul in a human form. So there's just a lot to discuss here. 

Karen: Yeah, and clearly you're a person who continues to learn and explore and try new things. it's hard to know where to start with you, Catie. 

 Let's start at the beginning. What has been your journey to where you are now? were there crossroad moments that led you to where you are now. 

Catie: So definitely crossroad moments. I grew up in a very small rural community in Minnesota. Farming community Self awareness and self reflective practices were not necessarily a part of my childhood.

I found them much later in life and I did the prescriptive path to success with air quotes success that we are all, taught go to school, go to college. [00:03:00] Find a partner, maybe get married, buy the house, get a job, and that's the route that we all are supposed to take.

And I did that. And I was deeply overwhelmed with the unhappiness. And what I would say now looking back is severe debilitating anxiety and depression, but undiagnosed and really didn't have a language or an understanding that was even not normal because It was what I saw in the environment around me. Through a number of those kind of cross roads, threshold moments, really points of the universe shaking me awake and saying wake up. You are here for much bigger things than what you are doing right now.

I started to just follow these breadcrumbs that were being laid for me. And it was like starting to take better physical care of myself in my twenties where I hadn't really been exercising or moving or looking at what I was eating as a contributor to how I was feeling.

And I started to [00:04:00] really feel myself come. online to come back alive. which then, led me to ending a pretty intense relationship that was not very good for me. Taking a yoga class that then helped me feel like I could quiet my mind in a way I'd never experienced. And then at the time started really running.

And that was one of the ways that I started to connect with my body. And it was the only way at the time I knew how to manage my anxiety. And my late 20s and I was living in the Twin Cities in Minneapolis, working a government job. it was not the worst job ever.

It was actually, I had one of those. best case scenarios in the way of that. I only worked 40 hours a week. I never took work home with me. I really loved my boss. He was incredible. But I wasn't fulfilled. And again, I didn't have a language or even an understanding that was possible at the time.

But intuitively I signed up for a yoga teacher training and started teaching yoga part time and felt that sense of fulfillment that I had never really experienced before and that was [00:05:00] really the first catalyst of me completely 180 in my life and moving towards a greater sense of purpose.

And that led me to, move across the country, pursue a career in the wellness business. Field. I managed a bunch of studios and taught yoga. And then that led me to leaving the studios and really focusing on building my personal brand as well as, working towards a sense of self mastery.

And what that looked like was traveling the world, teaching, training in as many modalities as possible, building community. And. Through that, then ended up co founding a startup that was really focused on mindfulness and wellbeing for a number of years. And then through all that time, how that's gotten me to astrology is really as I started to develop a deeper relationship to mother earth and kind of patterns and cycles that exist in our universe.

 I started studying astrology personally and then met an astrologer and started working with an astrologer personally and really saw the potential of how these tools can help [00:06:00] orient you towards. Your greater purpose or meaning or even just feel a sense of empowerment in circumstances that are incredibly challenging and pressurizing, which I think we all have been in those moments or are in those moments right now, just, existing in the world that we are.

There's a lot of things that can pull those feelings up. So that led me to study astrology that then, move away from teaching yoga full time. And really stepping into more of an advisory role or a coaching role with clients. And then that work led me to wanting to be of a bigger impact and working with organizations and helping employees as well as executives.

So that's the cliff notes of it all. It's really been a spiral of these little moments I've really listened and leaned into this deep sense of trust within myself of where I've been guided.

Karen: and it seems like you've come full circle in so many ways, just starting in that almost corporate traditional role and then bouncing out of there, really going to the almost ultimate extreme and then trying to bring all those lessuns back to where you [00:07:00] started. So that's really impressive.

What was it about astrology in particular that really shifted the way you thought about using it on yourself, but also studying it more as a practice to serve others? 

Catie: It's interesting cause I've actually never really thought that granularly about it because it's just been so much a part of my life, but it was really this, I felt seen and really validated for my lived experience .

It's in that first reading that I had. And the astrologer that I work with because it's not just about feeling seen and understood.

 There's also this way of really. Using this instructively and how to work with energies that are present or really challenging experiences coming up in my life, whether that was, the death of my mother, breakups and seeing that there is greater purpose and meaning in that. And if I am able to hold the experience and all of the feelings that come up around it, I can really move through that with a lot of [00:08:00] grace.

 And so it was that understanding of. This isn't just a fluffy spiritual practice, there is really a practical way to use astrology to maximize your resources, your time, your energy money, which I think we're all interested in learning more about. Definitely. And I also 

Robyn: Wanted to ask you, you've used that word breadcrumbs Yeah.

 And how, you followed the breadcrumbs to get to where you are now. And for those that are listening, can you explain for you, cause I think for every person it's a little different and how you were aware we talk about intuition all the time, what intuitively, what that felt like.

Yeah. When let's say you met this astrologer or even when you were taking that yoga class and then you heard about this yoga training and you were like, I think I should do that. what did that feel like in your body that was like, yes, this is the way to go, 

Catie: Great question. So it's interesting because.

It's more now looking back and realizing that I was following my [00:09:00] intuition because at the time I had no idea that's what I was doing. And I wasn't even embodied enough to understand that my body was sending me signals, right? , We're talking about 13 years ago. So there's been 13 years of growth that have got me to this place of deep embodiment.

And, what I can know is when I decided to sign up for that teacher training before that I was what we would call, Oh, I'm type a I'm highly analytical, which is really. For me was a trauma response to control my environment so that I knew what to expect because I grew up in an environment where I didn't always know what to expect, So we know that, And so when I would make a decision, I would overanalyze to the point of not even being able to make a decision. But with this, it was so clear. It was just like a, Oh yes, I'm going to do this. There was this sense of peace and serenity in the choice without knowing what the outcome was going to be, or even trying to control the outcome.

[00:10:00] I often tell the story of when I told my dad, because the training started within a few days. So I wouldn't have normally said yes to something that I didn't have the ability to spreadsheet and pros and cons and talk to everyone in my life about to get their opinion, right? Because I didn't trust myself enough to make the choice.

And so That was like one of the first real moments where I did trust myself, what is now my intuition. But I told my dad about it and he was like, are you going to quit your job and become a yoga teacher? And I said, no, this is just for me. want to learn. I love this. So I want to do it as a fun thing to learn more.

We can say that and diminish it, but I had no idea when I took that chance that it was going to lead me to this conversation with you, to having moved to two different areas of the country and the amount of development and growth and healing that has happened in those 12 years. Now I know very intimately what my [00:11:00] intuition is and how to really pick up on those signs of those breadcrumbs.

But at that time, it was really just this knowing this inner knowing that this is the direction I need to go. 

Robyn: I'm so glad you articulated it in that way, because it was this thing where you didn't have to overthink it.

It just felt natural. It felt peaceful. And that's all you need you don't need to have words for what that is yet. I think there's so many people who are feeling lost for whatever reasun or not fulfilled and 

they don't even know that feeling means that they're not fulfilled, That's what it is. It's an emptiness. It's why am I here? It's all of that. 

Karen: you said, Catie, we often hear people who have some way of tuning into their body first.

Starting with the yoga, starting with running, like you were saying before, really allowing the body to feel that's almost the first gateway to really then being able to listen and tune in. And it feels like all that work that you did in yoga, it just opened the door for more to just an [00:12:00] intuition.

Again it's usually just following what feels right. It makes you feel good inside. And I think that's where you put the yoga that started there. And then you just did that and now to hear where you are. 

Catie: Yeah. It's alignment, it's cause I think sometimes too, is that we get focused on what feels good.

And sometimes what we actually need is to feel uncomfortable in our growth and that always isn't going to feel good. But. We could have this whole conversation about intuition because there's so many parts to it. But what you said that I think is so important is that oftentimes the gateway is through the body.

And then there is also a need to go other layers deeper and to connect on more of that kind of spiritual esoteric level and be the bridge between the two. Cause they do communicate. And that's where I really feel like. As you said, Karen, like I've swung both pendulums where I started in really the more practical earthly financial business [00:13:00] side moved to really that esoteric spiritual.

And then I've now settled in the middle where I'm able to really pull and integrate both. And I think that's what people desire right now has been missing in so much whether that's our work environments or just our personal lives is like a connection to something bigger. 

Karen: And what you said about astrology, making you feel seen.

remember the first time I had my chart done. I was 12. My mom was ahead of her time. And all of her children had them. And I, that was literally the exact feeling I had as a, almost 13 year old thinking, what the heck am I going to do? I'm not that smart. What do I have going for?

And this person just literally read to me all of the amazing qualities that I had and what I was capable of and the talents that I would have. And it gave me hope and it energized me at a time in my life, obviously when I needed it, . Even if you have your astrology chart redone, if you've had it done before, it regrounds you.

It's Oh yeah, that's who I am. That's what I came here to do. So it's [00:14:00] such a wonderful gift. 

Robyn: And speaking of, can you define in your own words, what an astrological Birth chart is.

Catie: so the birth chart is a snapshot of the sky at the moment that. You took your first breath and this is really the birth of anything. So astrology can be used to look at world events. When something happened in the world, it can be used to the birth of a business when that was brought into existence, but for an individual, we're looking at the time that.

The soul came earth side that it moved from this really liminal space inside of the mother, the womb, And then is coming out and being invited into this earthly plane. And we look at the sky as a reflection of pattern and a way to give meaning to the patterns. that are there. I say this often in my readings because I love it.

Carl Jung, I think it was that said anything born at a moment in [00:15:00] time has the characteristics of that moment. And so that snapshot is The highest potential that the soul came to evolve into in this lifetime. And within it, it holds the past, the present, and the future. And we use it as a map or a blueprint or a compass to orient the individual, the business to its highest evolutionary purpose.

And as Karen said, to really reground or reawaken to who you are. Because we can get really confused by who we're told we're supposed to be. Again, these ideas of success , and these metrics and these outlines of this is the one way. This is the only way to be happy.

But for so many, that isn't the way. And, We come here with this purpose and this meaning and the soul wants to evolve. It wants to grow. And so we use that to help understand the different patterns, the certain cycles that are there. And then also to look at where [00:16:00] strengths are and how to integrate certain challenges.

really to reawaken the individual to that essence or that sense of self. 

Karen: One of the things that I found so beneficial in the reading that you did for us was that you literally took us to our chart, that snapshot as you mentioned when we were born, and you really broke it down for us to really help understand how you read it and how it's calculated, how it's deciphered.

Can you just give a super high level of what the chart is and how it's broken out for you to read that map? 

Catie: So my job as the astrologer is to take what's there and unravel the patterns that exist and then reflect them back to the individual. If you are looking at your chart and if you are listening to this and you want to pause it and pull up your chart a site, you can go to astro.

com or something and get it so that you can orient yourself as we're looking at this. There is a hemisphere line that runs east to west, just like the hemisphere on the earth. And so we first look at [00:17:00] what is above the horizon and what is below the horizon. So everything that is above the horizon, the houses six through 12, is essentially us in relation to the external world.

So it's everything right now as you are sitting, are you both in the Midwest right now? And I'm in California. . Actually. Karen's traveling. She's in the East. Oh my gosh. Okay. So we're all over the world, but on the East coast, it's 5 PM. So the sun is in a different place than it is here right now at 2 PM in California, but everything that's visible above us.

That is everything that's in the top hemisphere of the chart, and that, again, speaks to our external world. Now, everything that's underneath us, that's on the other side of the planet at this moment, which is in darkness, because they would be experiencing night at this moment, is the lower hemisphere of the chart, and that really speaks to our internal experience.

The houses one through six are very personal. They are more about us as individuals and us really making contact with that internal state. And the pie chart are these little kind of [00:18:00] segments. Those are the houses. And we look at that as like the arena of our life. That is where certain energies are being activated.

And if you look at your chart and you see you have empty houses or houses that are full of different planets and points, Neither is better or worse, good or bad. It's just simply part of your mission. It's what you agreed to. And oftentimes a full house, an overactive house means that you came here to really master whatever the lessun is of that sign house combination.

And houses that are maybe empty have less of an emphasis, meaning that it's not as big of a focus for you in this lifetime. It's still important. But it isn't going to be where a lot of your tests and lessuns are learned. So Houses 1 through 6, again, very personal, and then 7 through 12 are like career, relationship, community, our belief systems, etc.

Now the planets are essentially the main characters of the story. It's what part of you we're talking about specifically, whether [00:19:00] that's your mind, your value system, your sense of identity, how you regulate emotionally. things like that. And then the sign that the planet is in is the needs and motivations of that specific planet in that sign combination.

So astrology in general is one part destination and one part journey. It tells us, How to get those needs met, but then how do we get those needs met along the way? What can we do to really meet the needs that we have? And so the sign is really important because it helps us understand a planet in a different sign.

For example, if we're talking about mercury, mercury is the mind. It's how we communicate. It's what we think about. And mercury in cancer, thinking about things. Having really nurturing communicative style or really connected to a sense of intuition is very different than my mercury and Virgo, which is really precise and analytical and my mind sees in pattern.

Part of why I'm really good at what I do is my chart because , I [00:20:00] was born for this work. But I can really see how those patterns exist and how to move something from A to B, right? So if we're looking at personal growth and development, I can look really honestly at where we are, where we want to go, and then know the steps that are necessary to get there.

 I think we covered the main overview of what the chart is. You 

Robyn: did. And I just want to say what an unbelievable teacher you are. So not only are you able to translate and give clients the steps and guidance to follow and rituals and practices and all of that to incorporate and integrate into our lives.

You also are this just magnificent teacher. And just even the way that you were able to express that to everybody listening right now, who I really think will think about astrology and the chart. In a way that they never have before. That is just such a testament to who you are. Oh, 

Catie: thank 

Robyn: you.

Karen: Maybe just one thing it might be interesting to people are the north and the south nodes, because I didn't [00:21:00] know until recently about how the impact of past lives are relevant to this one and how they can come up in your birth chart. 

Catie: So the north and south node are two points in the moon's elliptical. So it's essentially where the moon's elliptical crosses over, we're getting scientific. This is not necessary. I'm over explaining, but to understand what it is and how we denote it, it's where the eclipses happen.

 And so we're all more familiar with eclipses, especially this year, as we've had two that have been visible from the United States. , maybe even three, definitely October and this most previous one in April. and of course, now if you are listening, you're like, I don't believe in past lives.

I don't prescribe to that realm of thought. That's totally valid. And you are absolutely right. Okay, to believe what you believe, but we also come in with a lineage with a connection to our ancestral wounds, ancestral need for healing, We have this connection on a cellular level to the past. [00:22:00] So if we look at it just as that, there is a cellular memory within our bodies, our minds, our souls, our psyches that is connected to the past.

The south node is that point. It tells us about where we have really spent many lifetimes or where we've really connected to in the past. And we are looking to evolve away from and towards the opposite polarity because everything in life and astrology is mirrored, It's not one or the other.

It's this. And we're always trying to integrate competing priorities, competing energies. And through that integration is where we find a sense of fullness. So the south node we're really trying to stretch and grow towards the opposite polarity. And that's our north node. It's a point of evolutionary purpose in our chart that we can look at to, create a sense of understanding of what is one of the main things we really did come to evolve towards.

And you would look at both the sign [00:23:00] and then the house as informing of that. But we use the past to inform the future. So we don't want to get stuck in that archetype or in the motivations of the past. But we really want to use the gifts and the experience of what we've learned through that path to evolve towards the north node placement.

Karen: I love that. And I love that additive information because many of us have come into our lifetime to fulfill a purpose based on a past life, right? Some things we didn't achieve or things that maybe we didn't do as well as we would like to. We almost set ourselves in motion in this lifetime to try to continually evolve towards that or to try to heal that in some way.

And I just find that information so helpful because Sometimes we may even with our chart may be confused. Like, why did I pick this? Why is this lifetime so challenging and can be really helpful to look at the North and South nodes to reground us on the reasuns why we may be going through some of those challenges and lessuns.

Robyn: And I also [00:24:00] want to point out for people who, what they know of from astrology is. really their sun sign. they haven't really looked at their whole chart. And you can't really understand who you are unless you really do look at your whole chart. Because, someone can say, for me, I'm a Taurus there's so much more to that than just, yes, I was born on April 22nd and that happens to be a Taurus and that's my sun sign which again, that's where the sun was when I was born, right?

So that's part of the snapshot but your sun sign only represents one part of you and you need to understand all the other players. and then really look at where you are in your life on any given day or moment To understand how it's all working together, 

Catie: wouldn't you say?

Yes, you're bringing up a lot of really important points that I haven't touched on yet. One of which is that would be like trying to get my face through just looking at my right eye. Exactly. The whole [00:25:00] picture through looking at one piece. That's right. And oftentimes people will ask me like, guess my signs, guess my big three.

And it's okay I'll throw it out for funsies, right? To just. 

Laughing: And by the way, 

Catie: you're intuitive, so you might guess it yeah, sometimes it's just fun for me to play the game, right? And I'm like, I'm open to being wrong, too, okay? This is not a perfect science of guessing, but what is interesting is that There is so much about the holistic chart because just like everything in life, nothing happens in a vacuum.

And so if we're only looking at one thing to draw the entirety of meaning in your holistic being, we're missing a lot of the picture here. 

. And if you think about the reasun why sun sign astrology is so prevalent, it makes sense because it's the easiest way for everyone to feel. Most people know the day they were born.

They know the day, And so on a mainstream level, everyone can for the most part find their sun sign. Unless you're on the cusp there are really no cusps, by the way, [00:26:00] because dependent on the year that you were born and the exact time you are one or the other, your sun was in one of those signs.

But again, we're trying to make something approachable for a mass audience. So in order to do that, because the sun shifts. year to year into when it moves into that sign, the solstice shifts from year to year. And so that's why there's a range on those cusps. It's it could be June 20th, but it could also be the 22nd.

that's a little fun 

Robyn: know that. 

Catie: Yeah, most people don't. Also something that I didn't mention in this first discussion of astrology is that you will see all these little lines in the center of the chart, and those are the relationships or the communication styles between the individual planets.

And that can. Change or flavor or influence how that specific planet expresses itself and can show us what you said karen about challenging circumstances coming up. Is that often in charts with what we would call harder aspects or [00:27:00] relationships that soul just came here for exponential growth.

And in order to do that, they're actually needed to have some harder circumstances. And I also want to be really clear that, there are things that are happening oppressive systems within our country and across the world that, I want to be really respectful of that, right?

We're not talking about that. That oh, things are hard and this is just what you chose. There's also things beyond our control that happen that we want to be respectful of, but there's just like life relationships really impact how the whole thing expresses itself.

 And that part is important and then we take this final piece, which are the transits and that's where the current planets are at this exact moment in time to understand where the energy is really expressing itself in terms of our birth chart. So if you think about birth chart is a picture of a still picture of a moving sky.

The [00:28:00] planets are going to continue to revolve around and activate different energies, different opportunities for growth, different challenges, certain limitations. , this is the fun part for me. It's like really supporting people and okay, cool. This is what's coming up for you.

Here's how we are going to work with this energy to really create the most ease and this experience. 

Karen: Yes. Because as you were talking. I was trying to get my head around that one when you were , doing my reading because you forget that, yes, there's that snapshot when you're born, but then the planets keep moving year after year, month after month changes 

and they impact me differently they impact you so it's just such a miraculous science. Yes. 

Robyn: I'm excited to hear about how you're incorporating this type of work with executives and within a team environment. 

Karen: Robyn and I both were fascinated by this, coming from 

Robyn: corporate.

 and as we build our team and so forth, it's something to keep in mind that I [00:29:00] think most businesses don't look at it , from that space . Not yet. That's what we're seeking center. 

Catie: Exactly. Yeah. And it's, it's really evolved through, as I said at the beginning, a big guiding principle for me has always been, where can I go to be of the most impact?

How can I. With the finite resources I'm one person, I have 24 hours a day and only so much energy. How can I take this to work and impact on a greater level? And that's, of course, in one individual one on one work. And that is always going to be a big part of my work. But there's also this opportunity to really look at the relationships.

And work is, For most of us, where a lot of our primary relationships are, whether they're our most intimate relationships or not, because we spend so much time in our careers and in our jobs. And if that whole environment is not doing well, or if those relationships are not built on a sense of mutual [00:30:00] respect, openness, curiosity, that's hard.

And we've all been in that position before, it impacts everything in your life. And this also started before I built this business about a year and a half ago, but in 2021, after the pandemic, as we were really seeing organizations take a very reactive approach to employee wellbeing of Oh, we don't have anything in place now we've got to like work really fast and really hard to support.

People because they're really struggling. And that's a very, patriarchal approach to this experience. And what I'm wanting to bring in is a softer, more feminine, more intuitive and proactive approach to employee development and wellbeing. we know the statistics are since the pandemic, even specifically, which was really just a breaking point, we've definitely struggled more since then, but the struggle was there prior. It just wasn't really illuminated. And at this moment, the. The statistics from the past few years [00:31:00] of the number of employees that are quiet quitting the, the engagement of the employees in the organization and just even in talking to different people about how so many organizations are still really stuck in the old way of doing things.

And. I've said this and I say it with a lot of respect, but we're at this moment, especially as Pluto has moved into Aquarius, where it's you have to evolve or die. it is time to look at things differently. Aquarius is the sign of innovation and technology and our ability to really honor the individual.

And. What if employers and organizations created a space where employees could really deepen the relationship and understanding to themselves in order to create a deeper relationship to all of their life, which includes their workplace, because again, there's so much time that's spent there.

So the work that I do is really threefold. There's the one on one coaching [00:32:00] with executives because A lot of leaders have a lot of power and their power impacts their entire organization. And so I want to be in a space where I support conscious embodied, evolved leadership. How can I learn more about myself so that I am embodying empathy, embodying and modeling the type of leadership that we all desperately seek from. the people that we are in engaging with . So we use astrology as a framework to understand the self and work towards self actualization, which is always a moving target, of course.

But then in team dynamics, how can we create opportunities for whether There's rupture in the team due to whatever experience create opportunities for repair. I've been studying relational dynamics for a long time, so I bring in a lot of that work. Also just fun opportunities for team engagement.

So through, different communication style through the lens of your mercury sign and where it's placed so that you get to understand people's [00:33:00] strengths and how they communicate and that we can all communicate better. It can be as simple as looking at value systems and really helping teams develop an understanding of what they do value so team dynamics is really obviously dependent on the team and what that team needs But I have a lot of fun with creating content and experiences that are really unique and innovative and as The younger generations come into positions of leadership.

There's also going to be a need for innovative ways to engage with your employees, The old kind of we're just going to help you become more productive. we're sick of that. Like step . We're looking at fun, engaging, and also inspirational.

Like, how do I connect? Because it always is coming back to that individual being seen, heard, validated, and celebrated for their unique contribution. 

And then the third kind of avenue or service line is really about creating inspiring experiences. So whether that is team off sites, retreats executive leadership, I do a lot of public [00:34:00] speaking on different topics, how to unlock your unique potential through self awareness, emotional attunement, how to build emotional capacity, and the list goes on and on.

So that's. how I bring this work into organizations and really bridge that mundane and mystical, practical and magical worlds into a really exciting future for corporate culture. Like I do really believe this level of responsibility is the way of the future. 

Robyn: And do you think that companies that still operate, in those old traditional ways that are very patriarchal.

Do you think they'll self destruct? What's your view on that?

 Karen, did you have something else to say? 

Karen: , so it's very fresh for me coming out of corporate and really seeing these exact examples of everything that you're talking about. On top of the question that Robyn asked is how do you break that door open?

How do you get in the door to places That may not be receptive. And then the other part is that energetically within these [00:35:00] organizations that Robyn just described, there are people that are wanting that and will leave if they don't get that. So It's a dynamic that seems to be almost to be energetically opposed.

And so you get in there and try to balance that? , 

Robyn: Because we know some of those people, right? , who's running these organizations and , how do you get in there?

How do you start to make that change? Yeah. 

Catie: so I'm going to speak first to Karen's and then comes to Robyn's the thing about Karen's question is I'm not here to prove it. I'm not here to try and convince those organizations that are really stuck. In their old ways and have no interest in evolution.

I'm not here to do that. 

Robyn: here. ,

Catie: And I'm going to answer your question. Robyn two is the individual because it is the micro and the macro, When I work with clients, I do a lot of healing work as well. Like a big part of my development is astrology, but it's also in like, how do we heal what is there in order to feel a [00:36:00] sense of courage and confidence and moving forward and like really unblock us from certain patterns that hold us in those specific cycles that are very traditional or it's one way of being.

And I cannot want the healing for my client more than they want it for themselves. because I'm not. Doing the work. I'm here to guide you. That's right. 

Robyn: I think for everybody listening or watching, that is very key. When you are a healing practitioner, but the person who actually does the healing and does the work is the individual.

And that is something that it's important for people to understand that you have to want to do the work because you will be the one doing it. You're just helping facilitate it. 

Catie: Yes, exactly. They have to want it. And the only way that there is going to be sustainable growth and change is for them to take ownership.

And I want that for my clients. I want them to feel empowered. they don't need me to do their work. My [00:37:00] role as a facilitator, as an astrologer, as a breathwork practitioner is not to create a codependent relationship where they need me to. Move forward. Let me help you.

And then we may always do check ins for astrology because the astrology is always changing, but. I want you to feel empowered and really embodied and confident and courageous in your life. So that's the answer to Karen's question. And there's so many, there's so many organizations out there and executives that are into it and are interested.

And I think, this Pluto and Aquarius transit is 20 years. Like we are going to be. Dismantling these systems buckle up. Cause we're going on a ride. Be a while, this isn't like overnight change. And I don't know if at the end of those 20 years, we'll be at the exact change we want, but I know we're going to be making some breakthroughs.

And so think about in 20 years, who are going to be the executives at the organization? That's 

Robyn: right. 

Catie: It's going to be a very different landscape. 

Robyn: Yeah. Growing up like you, Karen, my daughter is [00:38:00] 16 right now, but she's growing up in a home where we talk about her birth chart.

We talk about crystals and energy healing, and those are going to be her tools and resources. So I think that's a really good point. 

Karen: And Catie, my heart is so full because I know how needed it is. ,

Catie: and so this is because I want to make sure I answer your question, Robyn, and how I see it is that, and they may not fully self destruct.

It may not be like that organization ends up. Completely going under, but it's just like the individual you can operate at a super numb, really. I operated here up until I was about 27 years old, just really numbed out, barely getting by thinking that this was as good as it gets. And I wasn't even gracing like a fifth of my potential.

But if you are open to change and growth and evolution and bringing in new ideas and fresh perspectives and truly breaking through where you are stuck as an individual or as a business. That's when you really start to maximize [00:39:00] potential. And yeah, these companies may still exist, but they're never going to really be able to thrive from a cultural perspective, from a bottom line perspective, because we know that engaged employees when you are in a position where you feel seen and celebrated and people want you there.

You want to be there, right? 

So you're going to have an organization that is maybe not meeting its potential financially, not meeting its potential from a cultural perspective, and it's just existing at the level. 

Robyn: one question too, when you're with one of the aspects in which you work with these teams, are you actually looking at each person on that team's chart, and then how they work together as well as also the company's chart? 

Catie: depends on the exact client?

Because, if there's a team that has 20 people versus a smaller team, and we have to adjust and adapt a little bit of the content to [00:40:00] be approachable, but we would have. In some instances, that everyone has their individual chart. And so just like I walked through everything with you, we would be walking through.

And if we're looking at like how we communicate, we're looking just at Mercury and we're going to talk about Mercury through different signs and different houses. And it's not only fun to learn more about yourself, but it's engaging because that. In and of itself creates a connective tissue or fabric that is felt not just in the individual, but on the collective kind of level.

 I also do a lot of reflective work. I like some of the team dynamics are reflection circles where it's really just They're coming there to have a safe space, to be vulnerable, to process what they're going through, whether that's at work or at home that work in and of it's has so much power and potential.

But , a lot of these team development sessions are dependent on the needs of the team, what they're really working through [00:41:00] and creating a really nurturing and Very feminine, receptive approach to growth and development. 

Karen: Can we talk for a minute to about another subject that I think our listeners will be really excited to hear about and that's in relationships, partnerships in particular, robyn and I did ours together because we're partners. But even from a, regular, romantic marriage partnership whatever. How do you approach that? And is it an overlay of both? 

Catie: Yeah, I love partner work, by the way. It's like a big part of whether that again is with intimate partnerships or in co founder relationships or business partners and For fun fact, the seventh house in your astrology chart is all intimate partnerships. So that is your spouses, your romantic partners, but that's also your closest one on one relationships and your closest working relationship.

So the patterns and the dynamics usually play out in multiple areas. But I look at, cause this is another question I get frequently is, are, [00:42:00] Tauruses and Leos compatible? And I do not look at compatibility in astrology because you can take two seemingly compatible charts and have two individuals who are not willing to engage with, invest in, and grow with the relationship and it doesn't really matter that there's compatibility.

You can take two seemingly incompatible charts and have two individuals who really desire depth of intimacy to connect and to really grow together. And that changes the game, right? So it's really that sense of personal ownership that we all have in our individual as well as our relational lives. So I don't look at compatibility, but there's two ways to look at partnership charts.

We can look at what's called synastry astrology, which is essentially where you take both charts and I have software that does this luckily, but you would calculate the midpoint between every planet and it [00:43:00] creates, because both of you lean in and tell me more. Because I've always looked at relationship as one plus one equals three.

There are two individuals and they create a third entity, which is the entity of the relationship. And that energy is its own thing. It's its own individual energetic frequency. And so that's what Sinistry Astrology is. I never thought of it that way. Yeah. Yeah. And if you think about just investment, feeding, building, growing something, if you have two individuals and the third is the relationship, if one of the individuals is withdrawn, is not invested, is not interested in change, the relationship itself gets really stagnant.

So we have the midpoint between all of it. So for, you both, you've got a Taurus sun, a Leo sun, we would look at, you would probably end up somewhere between around a Gemini cancer sun. 

Laughing: We 

Catie: would hit the midpoint between them because that is the 

and so we can look at that [00:44:00] relational chart to just understand the relationship as a whole. But then we can also look at again the key individual elements. So we can look at how T Express themselves differently, what part of the chart it's in so that you have a deeper understanding of self and then a deeper understanding of the other person.

So, when I do partnerships, they're beautiful because I offer opportunities to then reflect to one another the beauty that you see in one another. 

And it's very therapeutic and it's about me seeing them, but also them seeing one another. 

Karen: I just have one more question so can you look at it like when the partnership happens? So if you're looking at a marriage, for example, or a partnership when they come together or two business partners. Do you actually take that date of that official incorporation My question is because you spoke at the very beginning about the chart being about the potentiality, It's not saying. This will happen to [00:45:00] you or you will do or be or achieve any of these things, but it's the potentiality of kind of what you came to do. And so is that also true in a relationship? I think about like people who might be listening now who might have a romantic partnership, and who might be thinking it's Oh when the union happened, everything was great.

And all the alignments of the stars were, as they say, perfect. But then As their astrological paths actually evolved and unfolded and as that potentiality of who they are evolved and unfolded, then often it can either be an alignment or a disalignment. 

Catie: Yeah. 

Karen: , I'm getting a little mind blowing stuff going on here. Just thinking about how astrology can impact your relationship in that way.

Catie: I love that your mind is blown because it is mind blowing to me every day. It's like never ceases to amaze me. And what I love about what you said was that the chart Expresses a potentiality. And so here is that self responsibility that we've been talking about and toying through [00:46:00] this whole conversation of Yeah, there is potential.

This is the greatest potential that these two partners can have. And there's two parts to this. So when we do the synastry astrology, it's actually taking the two birth charts and combining them. You can also look at a marriage chart. And I've actually consulted Couples on when is the best time for them to be married to create the highest potentiality of the union.

I haven't felt 

Robyn: I this is just really cool. So good. 

Catie: And , everything is really very simple in life. We just make it more complicated than it needs to be. A lot of times. the potentiality of the relationship is fulfilled and then it's time to move on.

Or it's never fulfilled because they get stuck at some part. Or it's fulfilled and they are together forever, There's a lot of different ways to success and it doesn't always equate to till death do us part. Totally. And [00:47:00] that some people are going to be really upset with that because they have an idea of what, that the commitment of marriage of what it is, but we're in a time where people can come together for a certain cycle and season and Still truly and I get chills because you still truly love one another, but you know that in order for you both to actually then meet your individual potential, it's actually best if you move your different directions.

Robyn: I agree with that. 

And I think in those situations, it'd be super interesting to look at your personal chart, then, to see what tests did you give yourself in this lifetime? would assume that they line up. 

 It's giving yourselves permission to acknowledge and accept what is and what is for your highest potential as a soul. 

Karen: And potentially see that partner in a completely different light now, again, with the astrology and being like, , Oh, now it makes sense.

There's lots of aha moments because [00:48:00] the snapshot is being given both to the person as the individual, but also to their partner. 

Catie: and I love to look at my own chart of like when certain relationships have come into my life and what was happening and then when they ended and if you've gone to couples therapist, which I have in the past with past partners, and she said at the beginning, I'm not here to keep you together.

I'm here to help you uncover if that's what you both want. And help you understand yourselves and then make the decision that's best for you. And traditionally, if a marriage fails, it's that you were wrong or there was something wrong or that failed and , I think even just in how we sometimes use language now of consciously uncoupling and coming to agreements about, yeah we both love each other and we just decided that it's time to separate and that's okay too.

When I work with clients and couples, For the most part, it doesn't always mean that there's a problem, right? So typically when couples come to me, it [00:49:00] is because they do deeply want to grow and evolve together . Sometimes they, have created these containers also to be about couples that want to build intentional intimacy with one another and do fun and innovative ways Like what a fun date night to do a couple's breathwork session or, do a breathwork session and then an astrology reading and the next session and it's just creates. new ways to connect that are not always how things have been done in the past. 

And again is everything we've talked about but it's that there isn't just one way there isn't just one right answer. It's about developing an understanding and accepting of what is true for you based on your lived experience, not based on what you've been told you need to believe or do or be in order to be successful, happy etc.

So astrology for me helps to uncover. And create, even if it's just a [00:50:00] place of contemplation, what do I want and what really matters to me, what do I value and how do I want to be as Mary Oliver says, like spending my one wild and precious life. How do I want to be spending that time because. This life is such a sacred gift and we can forget that when we're really focused on hitting the metrics and checking the boxes.

And then we wake up one day, you have that real reckoning of. I need to get honest about where my life is and where I actually want it to go.

Yes. 

Robyn: So we know breathwork is a significant practice for you. It's been transformative. Can you just describe what breathwork is to people and how you integrate that into 

Catie: Yeah. And just to clarify, because I know it's confusing, my teacher David has coined breathwork.

There are many ways to do breathwork, even just conscious breathing is breathwork. But the specific technique that I utilize is a deep breath. Two part inhale, one [00:51:00] part exhale. That's all done through the mouth. So the first inhale goes into the low belly to stimulate the deeply held stagnant energy and emotions.

And then the second inhale comes up into the high chest to help move the energy up as well as clear out any grief, sadness, depression that's held in the heart. And then the exhale is there to release. And so you get into this really steady rhythm with the breathing pattern that helps to override the executive function of the brain, the need to control everything and to control what we feel and think and believe.

And when we override that function, we can really move into the somatic. Body and connect with what is held stuck, stagnant, and then move that energy out and integrate it. And so it's very powerful and potent practice. I talk about this frequently as being probably one of the most healing experiences.

That I've had in my lifetime and I work with this breath daily just to help release [00:52:00] trauma past experience, repressed emotion and also just daily stress and anxiety, that charge of existing in a technological world where we are consuming so much. information all of the time. With the conscious mind, we are only really accessing again, a very limited amount of our potential and a lot of our energy gets really bound up in ensuring that we don't feel and think about or relate to everything that's held under the surface and trauma has many different expressions, but I was just training with my teacher and we talked a lot about this and he was like, who in here.

Feels like they have had trauma in their life and every single person raised their hand. So there's all of these I think Gabor Mate calls it like big T trauma, little T trauma, and the big T traumas are like the really living in war environments critical, like life. [00:53:00] death experiences, near death experiences, things like that.

 But the little t trauma is like just also not getting your needs met as a child, or even in a relationship in your adult environment. So there's all of these different experiences that can impact ourselves. And when those aren't really processed and felt, the unconscious deeply impact. It's how we experience our every day.

And so this breath work helps to get in contact with that in a really safe way and create a safe connection to your body, especially if maybe feeling emotions, hasn't been a safe experience for you. And then a way to really release and integrate them so that they are not running the show because if 80 percent of your energy is bound up in repressed emotion or unconscious experience, then you're That really only leaves 20 percent to make contact with a sense of vitality and joy.

And as we know that it's life is a spectrum, So we can't just experience the good. We [00:54:00] also have to be able to be in the discomfort of what is really challenging and the grief, the anxiety. And it's a practice that I have truly witnessed miracles, both in my own life, as well as in my client's life, as well as.

in the community. Being with my teacher, there was multiple conversations this weekend about people who have healed, cancer, healed brain injuries, healed autoimmune conditions through a dedication to this work. But it's work like it is uncomfortable to have to feel the, immense anger that I have of, experiences in my childhood and grief from other experiences in my life.

It's not easy, but I do hope that I hold a really beautiful space for people to experience that within themselves. And it does then open us up to new ways of thinking, new perspectives, this like really creative expression that we don't always have access [00:55:00] to because again, our energy is really bound up in this unconscious space.

Robyn: I think most people don't realize what you can access from breathing, that you can actually get downloads of information.

As you said, you can be healing parts of yourself on a cellular level from this kind of practice. So it really can be miraculous. . 

Karen: and we all have access to that. Yeah, exactly. We don't need to be anything but ourselves to really access that.

And I think that's the beauty of it. I know I speak of this all the time. 

Catie: One of the ways that breathwork has impacted me because it is, it's really about us being in a deep relationship to our nervous system, finding ways to regulate.

But I tend to freeze, like that's my response. And so I've unthawed a lot of functional freeze through this breathwork. And I do, I've trained in many different modalities. It's just, this is the one that has made the fastest, most rapid change in my life and healed a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But I noticed as I started to do this work [00:56:00] consistently, how often I wasn't breathing during the day.

Like I would be holding my breath and that's also the simplicity of awareness. it's not the most monumental change. It's the like simplest thing can completely change the game for you. And hearing one thread of your chart being reflected back to you that can change how you see your whole life.

And yeah, breathwork, I would talk an entire session on that. 

Karen: feel like we could talk to you literally all day. I great at explaining and breaking things down. Just been so fascinating and you bring so much dimension to everything that you do.

Thank you for sharing all of this with us and all the work that you're doing, particularly for me, it speaks to me on the corporate side, being so fresh and leaving that environment and knowing how needed that work is. 

Robyn: Yeah. I feel like this is the first of many conversations.

Karen: I 

Robyn: hope that we will have with you Catie. you're full of so much wisdom and guidance and as you continue to learn along your way [00:57:00] you have such a wonderful way of sharing what you're learning and then teaching us all so and really helping to facilitate the healing as well which is appreciated. So thank you. And for anyone who wants to work with you, what are the best ways that they can find you work with you? 

Catie: so I'm on social media as my name, Catie Mackin. So Catie is with a C, and people will see that when they're listening to this.

I have, my website is the same, Catiemackin. com. There is booking information there. if you're working with an organization or your HR representative, just reach out, email me Catie at Catiemackin. com. I'm also on LinkedIn with my name. It's pretty much my name everywhere. But those are the easiest ways to connect and I share different things in different places I also have a sub stack where I do send out emails that are both like diary entries of my life and also how I work with the astrology and what's coming up for me as well as supporting in an [00:58:00] understanding of what's happening collectively so people can be connected to the moment.

 And I do different containers throughout the year. I have a lot of different offerings, but just find me, reach out and I'll be open to conversations from there. 

Robyn: Yeah. And we'll have all of your links in our show notes. And I know one other thing I did want to point out is that you do monthly breathwork circles And then people may be interested in wanting to try breathwork. That may be a really nice way to begin. 

Catie: Yes, that's a great place to start to get in a feel for the practice and a group environment. I do have one on one sessions, but it's nice to just have an introduction. And those are in conjunction with the moon cycle.

So we do breath work on the full moon, which is the time of release. So it's the perfect time to release that emotion. And then the new moon is more of a sort of guided visualization intention, setting ritual that we do each month with the new moon. So the day It's just dependent on when the moon is, but it's all in my booking calendar as well.

Robyn: Thank you so [00:59:00] much, Catie. This was a conversation we knew it would be delivered. So so much. Thank you for having 

Catie: me. It 

Robyn: was an honor.