The Spirit of Harriet Tubman Is Back to Guide Us Now (Spring Washam) - Episode 60

We first became familiar with meditation teacher and visionary leader Spring Washam through Dan Harris’ book, 10% Happier. We then recently heard her on his Ten Happier podcast talking about her new book, The Spirit of Harriet Tubman: Awakening from the Underground and we were blown away. Thankfully Dan connected us –and we had the honor of speaking with Spring on this week’s podcast.

Spring is considered a pioneer in bringing mindfulness-based healing practices to diverse communities. She's one of the founding teachers at the East Bay Meditation Center, located in Oakland, California.

She received extensive training by Jack Kornfield, is a member of the Teachers Council at Spirit Rock Meditation Center in Northern California, and has practiced and studied Buddhist philosophy in both Theravada and Tibetan schools of Buddhism since 1999. In addition to being a teacher, she is also a Shamanic practitioner and has studied indigenous healing practices since 2008 which lead her to create Lotus Vine Journeys, an organization that blends indigenous healing practices with Buddhist wisdom in South America.

Spring currently travels and teaches meditation, retreats, workshops, and classes worldwide.

In this week's episode we discuss Spring’s life changing conversations with Harriet Tubman which dive into The Underground Railroad and how Harriet is now the conductor of a new state of consciousness in the world.

Where to find Spring Washam online: https://linktr.ee/springwasham

Social Media:
Facebook
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Spring’s Books:
The Spirit of Harriet Tubman: Awakening from the Underground:

A Fierce Heart: Finding Strength, Courage and Wisdom in Any Moment

Visit seekingcentercommunity.com for more with Robyn + Karen and many of the guides on Seeking Center: The Podcast. You'll get access to live weekly sessions, intuitive guidance, daily inspiration, and a space to share your journey with like-minded people who just get it.

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Transcript

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Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker, 

Karen: and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to seeking center. The podcast,

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Robyn: Karen and I first became familiar with meditation teacher and visionary leaders Spring wash him through Dan Harris's book, 10% Happier. We then recently heard her on his 10% Happier podcast talking about her new book, The spirit of Harriet Tubman [00:01:00] awakening from the underground, and we were blown away.

We knew we had to talk to her. Thankfully, Dan connected us and here we are. Spring is considered a pioneer in bringing mindfulness-based healing practices to diverse communities. She's one of the founding teachers at the East Bay Meditation Center, located in Oakland, California. 

She received extensive training by Jack Kornfield, is a member of the Teacher's Council at Spirit Rock Meditation Center in Northern California, and has practiced and studied Buddhist philosophy in both the Aveda and Tibetan schools of Buddhism since 1999. In addition to being a teacher, she's also a Shamanic practitioner and has studied.

Indigenous healing practices since 2008, which led her to create Lotus Vine Journeys, an organization that blends indigenous healing practices with Buddhist wisdom in South America. Spring currently travels and teaches meditation, retreats, workshops, and classes worldwide.

Now let's get talking about Harriet Tubman, spirituality, [00:02:00] meditation, and More. Hi Spring. 

Spring: Hi. So happy to join you both today. 

Karen: Oh, there's so much to talk about here. Where do we start? 

Robyn: I think first and foremost, how did this book come to be? What was the catalyst for you? 

Spring: Yeah, I am still, marveling, and understanding my own life and this unfoldment with this great spirit, Harriet Tubman. The book came so unexpectedly. It was in the summer of 2020.

I tell the story of where things happen and as we know, 2020 was this, I don't know what you would call it, a cyclone. Yeah. Yeah, the ground was cracking. Consciousness was shifting. It was, wow. In California we had fires. we had everything. So it felt oh my gosh, all this is happening.

And I was actually working on another book, and then when, the quarantine and the lockdown started happening, I was in California and at that time I just didn't know what to do. So many of us and my [00:03:00] community was in a 9 1 1. I was getting 9 1 1 emails and calls and text message hell.

And at the time I felt gutted. My own trauma was activated and I couldn't figure out what, oh my God, I've gotta be strong here. I've gotta find some resource inside myself to meet this moment, to be a community leader right now, to share and teach and. And it was during these really dark days, right before George Floyd was murdered.

I had a dream about Harriet. I'd been praying for weeks though. Help me universe. What am I doing? What's going on? As all my plans were washed away and airports closed, and all of us went through this was a collective experience. It was during that time that Harriet began to appear.

First in this dream where she was rescuing me, which I write. The first chapter of the book is about that, and then it just began to happen. Where I felt here at Tubman was around me all the time and was holding my hand and was with me. And I would dream about her constantly and I would see [00:04:00] her face in my mind when I was meditating.

And I could see the stories so I got interested and everybody at that time, I was like let's do a Zoom class. Everyone was doing that. I thought maybe other people are thinking about Harriet Tubman. Am I the only one thinking about Harriet? Is Harriet talking to other people? And The class viral. How did you know it was Harriet? it. The spirit of Harriet. It was like the emanation of Harry. It was Harriet's face. It was literally when I was walking in the dream, it was clear. I opened the book up telling this dream because this is my first encounter and I'm running and I'm being chased, and.

I don't know what's going on, and I remember feeling my hands burning. I was like, wow, I'm holding onto something. Wait, we're running, it was a kinda like a waking, almost started to become like a lucid dream. And then I realized I was hanging onto the back of Harriet Tubman's dress.

And that's what started this connection. And then I began to just see her face, And I began to feel, especially then, I started listening to a lot of gospel music and studying. And in those [00:05:00] moments, late at night, I'd be meditating, listening to music. I would feel often felt her hands in my hand.

And it was so comforting because I didn't know what to do at this time, and who else could understand the complexity of what was happening better than Harriet Tubman. Harriet Tubman understood this pain, this kind of suffering. We were all in a kind of cyclone of racism and hatred and police brutality and all, who else could comfort you in a way?

And I felt Oh, if Harriet's here, I'm good. Harriet knows how to get me out of it. Harry can conduct this. Where am I going? I trust you, Harriet. And the relationship began to grow from that. And believe me, I was so surprised I had not been someone who. Was obsessed with Harriet Tubman.

Prior to that, of course, I had my five minutes every year in black history class like everybody did. Were the great conductor of the underground railroad okay, thank you Harriet Tubman onto the next thing you know and I watched the movie about her in 2019. Who doesn't love Harriet Tubman? But this was [00:06:00] not someone I had been obsessing about.

I was like a Buddhist teacher and a healer. Doing other practices. So it caught me very much by surprise. So then you start this class? Yes. I start this class. And 

Robyn: at that point, was she coming to you regularly when you started the class or was it. After. Cause I, know one of the key things she basically said to you, you're going to 

Spring: write this book.

Yeah. How that happened was that, so I put on this five week Zoom class and then it goes viral. So there's hundreds of people from all over the world on the Zoom. And unbeknownst to me, my publisher at Hay House was one of the people in the Zoom. When you clicking through all the Zoom people.

They were there. I didn't know they were taking the five week class. They had seen a posting I put and thought I'll join this. And then she reached out to me and was like, you've gotta stop writing this other book and start writing about Harriet Tubman right now. And at that time, Harriet had been coming to me in the same way I was dreaming.

 by that time for my class, I was reading [00:07:00] everything cuz I was sharing all the. We would meditate, we would dance, and I would tell stories about her life. And so the energy of Harry was around me through the books, through the reading. I felt the spirit, and all I could do was just feel this enormous strength that was coming.

It was you can do this. You can ground, you can continue. You can be a leader through this time. Get your Oakland community, get your online community through this period. And then that's what happened is when the, they asked me to write the book. I said, no way. Of course. I was like, are you crazy?

I was like, I'm not a scholar. I have my own interracial things. I have to sort out, no, you need a call. Angela Davis, Tana Hassi coats. I got a list of all these other scholarly writers. I was like I'm Buddhist I'm. Spiritual I'm not a historian I can't do this. This is an iconic historical figure.

No way. So I had basically was like, I can't do it. I'm not capable of writing this. [00:08:00] And then I think that was where Harriet, shortly after that made an appearance. Which I write about in chapter two. And I tell that whole story and it was then that I was like, oh my God, this is real. Okay wait, something's real about, this is getting real now.

Oh, okay. But I feel like she had to do that to get me to agree to take on. The responsibility of writing a book about her heart. That's what she wanted. 

And Spring, 

Karen: when you had these conversations, it felt like dialogue almost at times and there was a period of time where you actually took a break, went off to the woods like you had. Dedicated time that you put aside to really immerse yourself in these conversations can you take us through what that experience was like for you?

I remember you were saying you were drinking your cup of hot tea, and it seemed like those are the moments where you almost prepared yourself for those conversations. Did you. I don't know, spiritually invite her in at those times. And did you literally actually write down what you heard 

Spring: her say?

Yeah. So how this happened. it was new to me, so I don't use the word [00:09:00] channeling, but I guess that is a kind of word I use the word conversation. This was a conversation with our ancestors and people have conversation with our ancestors. Everybody, can do this, It's just it went a little bit deeper with this project because we had a mission, Harriet wanted this book about her heart, and a message to the world to say, I'm back. I'm in a spirit form Here's my thoughts for this period of time. And so there was a real agreement.

Harriet was so polite. We would agree okay, for the next couple of weeks we're gonna write together. I'm gonna come and you're gonna write, and we're gonna have what I called sessions. And those were very formal times where I would open myself to the energy and we would be in a dialogue.

So the parts where I'm writing and the book. Interesting to write from three perspectives, I'm writing as the host being like, here you go, I'm gonna take you. But I'm also writing Harriet's words that were coming through and then I'm writing as a student of Harriet [00:10:00] Tubman with all of my freakouts and meltdowns and confusion along the way.

So I was weaving these three perspectives of experiencing this as a person who's this is not familiar experience, but here we are. So the times where Harriet, we agreed, like we would say, okay, then. I would know that we were gonna start early in the mornings. Often the conversations would just start, my mind would be almost like all my thoughts were taken over with images of Harriet, what we were gonna talk about.

Often. She would show me a lot of visuals. As the information was coming through with words here's what was happening, here's the experience. So my mind would start to fill with it, and then I would just start writing. So some of our most profound experiences were me actually sitting at the computer having these dialogues.

But I'll tell you what, initially it was a tremendous impact on me physically. at one point it was like standing in front of a 7 47, because [00:11:00] energy was so strong, it would leave me two places, either completely exhausted after two hours. I used to only be able to do one and a half to two hours at a time.

Or my energy would go so erratic, I would have this restless electric energy that I just couldn't discharge. It was literally, I couldn't ground, it would almost feel like disassociating, I would pop out and I had to. Take long walks on the earth. Even during these intense times, I even started working with a trainer nearby, lifting huge amounts of weights because I felt the weight was helping me ground.

Wow. The heavier I could push, the more I felt solid. Not like I'm disappearing, but I need mass. I need to hold this. So I had to lift. Three or four times a week, like really heavy weights. And then I would feel better I'm not gonna fly away, I'm not gonna burst into electrical, current I've gotta hold this.

And I started having, it was like I was in training or something to be able to have the sessions [00:12:00] and to continue it over time that smoothed out. But in the. Four or five months. Wow. It was a huge, I felt all the time, like my fuses were being blown away. Wow. 

Karen: there were a couple of scenes that really stand out when you were doing that.

For me, the one in particular was the one with the soldiers on the field when you visited them. . Did you feel that you were going literally back in time, or were you seeing a snapshot of maybe your prior.

Spring: Life. That has been a really important question. People have asked me that. Were you going back in time? Were you there with Harriet on the Underground Railroad at different moments? Was that your previous life? Maybe you were a slave and you were with her? I don't feel that really. the first time I had this energetic memory, it's almost like Harriet pulled me back to that time.

I write about in chapter six or seven where she showed me a glimpse of the Underground Railroad and it was a caravan, and I, it was like for a few moments I could enter [00:13:00] into that world and hear their songs and smell the earth. And then I was almost like I was walking with them. But I felt always like that was just a snapshot.

But those experiences were very difficult on my body. I remember after that, I felt a pressure on my chest for three days straight on my heart. Wow. They were actually very emotional too. It was like I was experiencing my body, some of the emotions of the people walking. Yeah. And all that they were experiencing in those moments of freedom and sorrow and love and terror and rejoicing and hope, it was like, So many emotions on this caravan.

So then the experience that you're talking about, I was a little bit more equipped, but that also caught me completely by surprise. And at that time I started to understand the channel better. As we moved toward the end of the book, it got smoother because then I realized that I could never channel in any kind of city.

I always had to be offline. In a very remote place, [00:14:00] wifi signals would interfere. So I often had to go way out, and then I could enter into kind of a different frequency and maintain the connection better. So a lot of this book came out in spurts of me, three, four weeks isolated. Whenever I would try to come back to Oakland or San Francisco, I'd had complete block.

I could never access the channel. And I couldn't ground it there. It was too distracting. It's not like I could have a conversation with Harriet and then get on an email two hours later and then be like, okay, Harriet, I'm back. Or go, it was like no. either I was all in or I was all out, the times where I go, okay, I'm all in. It was like, okay, now we're all in, right? We have three weeks. Let's get this information. It was very organized. So to your point about that chapter, yeah. I try to write very vividly about the experience. I wasn't able to connect to the chapter on the Civil War as I was writing it, I felt a disconnect.

The next thing I remember was I was drinking tea and I was making like a joke in my mind, and I just remember [00:15:00] Harriet's face came so close. The hand movement went through my heart. The next thing I know, I was dizzy and I felt like passing out. I put my cup of tea down. I was in this cabin. I laid on the bed and there was a feeling of almost.

I was on an elevator going a hundred miles an hour. And I was terrified. I thought Harriet was killing me. This is it. I'm dying. I knew this was gonna kill me. I knew I can't do it. Harriet. Hell, I remember it felt like I was just I was in tears. I remember I had a prayer to my teacher, Jack.

I was asking Dai Lama. I thought, this is it. I'm going, I'm maybe, I'm between lives and I'm, this is, I'm dying. It felt like that okay, I'm dying. And then the next thing I know, it was almost like the whole thing stopped. And then I was in two places at once. I was in the cabin. and then I just entered into this experience of being in the ancestor world that was like past and present and, I'm still understanding that [00:16:00] vision.

Robyn: it's somewhat astral traveling, 

Spring: Yeah, and I, it's hard for me to use words. We use the words that we feel that we can define experiences, and they feel limiting because I never ashell travel as that. Maybe that's it, I'm like something happened.

But all I know is I was literally on this bed holding on going hell and being like, please, I don't know what's happening. And then all of a sudden it stopped. And then later I could make sense of it, but I was trying to just write everything that was happening energetically to the best that I could describe it.

And then there was this piece that opened up and I think that was just more of meeting these ancestors veterans, 

Robyn: and having that experience. I don't know, it opens up this conversation of parallel. Lives and different worlds. Really different worlds happening.

Are they happening at the same time? It's a different conversation, but it does 

Karen: yeah, we know that we don't die, right? 

Robyn: Exactly. [00:17:00] Yes. 

Karen: In a sense, it feels like you really almost met Harriet halfway, your energies really did come together in those sessions. So probably part of you was.

This sort of dual energy or this dual 

Spring: place potentially? I think so, absolutely. Because I remember having the feeling but first of all, the time collapsed. I remember I looked at the time as it was happening on my computer. That sounds like 1223. Then I'm like, ah, I'm going back. And when I came out of that experience, it was four 30.

And it felt like nothing had happened at all. But yet I had this whole experience and I remember also crying and I was walking in a circle in the cabin holding my chest area so on one level I was experiencing things, but deep in this visionary state that I'm seeing them, but my body is still moving.

In this cabin in Sierra Nevadas, and I remember going, this is so weird, and thinking, wow, I'm feeling my heart. I'm doing it, but I'm fully in this vision. So I'm trying to [00:18:00] understand, as I integrate this experience, I'm sure the rest of my life I'll be integrating it, but now I've gotten since my experience interested in other authors or people who have experiences of channeling.

I never really had an interest in that before, but now out of curiosity, I'm more open to hearing people's experiences. Cause I'm like, wait, this Happened to me. I'm this did happen. This my experie experience. I was gonna ask you 

Robyn: before we keep going about the book, about your experience in terms of, had you had other experiences connecting with spirit.

 Because you are a meditation teacher. You've spent many times in quiet retreats and so forth I would assume have had some downloads, but I, were they ever to this level? 

Spring: That's a really good question because the thing about the meditation retreats, I always had all these mystical experience.

I was always, I don't wanna use the word advance, but that's how I got discovered by my teacher Jack, was my practice and. It was like [00:19:00] what's happening? I'd be on these three month retreats and I would describe all these things and I'd be like, whoa. Okay. And I'd be like, is everybody else having this?

And so I saw that I had a kind of concentration that was unusual. And other Burmese teachers I would sit with would be like, wow, okay, you're really like, this is a unique experience. And I didn't know how to ground that either because. Even in those practices, there was a kind of shunning of those experiences.

Just come back, don't get too lost in that. And I would often feel like I'm hearing Davis, or I'm, this is happening. I think people had fear of that a little bit like, because. It's a different map, but it's the map of all of our consciousness, but not everyone's on that one yet.

And so they, that's right. It was a little bit like, okay, calm down, come back in your body, break out of that. Don't sit eight hours anymore. Come back. And I'd be like it's just happening. Why do I feel this connection? So I have had those experiences, but they were shunned and I was a lot [00:20:00] younger then as I became a healer who worked with plant medicine.

I actually found a lot more connection to the indigenous shipibo people in the upper Amazon region because when I got involved with going to South America and doing healing work, the whole world is of earth spirits. They live in a world of spirits, so I was a really good fit there. 

Like I knew what they were talking. I'm like, yes, whole Amazon's alive and that tree has a spirit and this one. And they would tell me, this plant told me this and I understood everything. I was such a fit there. So I knew that and I had so many experiences there. But this was the first time I wasn't in some kind of sacred ceremony.

this was like wait, we've crossed into a different level. This is I'm not in a ceremony. I'm not asleep. I'm not doing, deep samati meditation. I'm just sitting here. it was like a different threshold, a different level of interacting with the spirit world than.

I was used to.

Robyn: in many ways because of all [00:21:00] the other experiences, it seems like an evolution yes. I feel like on some level, Harriet, who seems like she travels between realms, 

Spring: absolutely. She knew that you could handle.

Karen: I was just thinking about she communed with nature. She was able to understand herbs. Culturally you are aligned. I can just see you're both women, you're both seekers. I can just see like she could, was just waiting in the sidelines for you to be ready.

Spring: I agree with you that Harriet, first of all is an incredible mystic, And I was already in communication with, talked about the her whole life in this communication with this higher power in the SP world and God, or however you wanna call it. But yeah, I do think Harriet was waiting for me and was very patient with me through the process.

And worked with my fears and I think it's everything became more normalized. Because what's interesting is in the Buddhist tradition, it's full of magic. The Buddha woke up to a 10,000 world system and [00:22:00] saw beings everywhere in the higher realms and angels in the animal.

This is not unfamiliar. We're so used to living in our one little box, me, i, this earth it's hard even when you know it intellectually to actually experience something it jars you open, and I think it is actually a 

Robyn: perfect segue to talking about the metaphors of life that Harriet very much wanted to bring to our attention through you.

 it makes me think about the fact that you even say this in the book that the Underground Railroad was a very 3D earth related passage. It was obviously a thing. In our world at that time, but she's coming back and you can talk about this and what does that mean for now?

What is the metaphor? And so my point being how so many of us live in this very 3D reality based world when there's so much going on at the same. 

Spring: Yes. And I think [00:23:00] that's what I was trying to describe is that there's this 3D form realm, where it's all this material and matter, But that's just only Harriet would keep saying that. Oh, so much more. You have no idea. Like it's not. 3D to 5g. It's 5G to 50 D. This thing is vast and much bigger. And consciousness. We know we only use the smallest part we know that.

So scientists has, we're using a tiny part of our brain. We are looking in a little microscope. And Harriet was always trying to expand the consciousness, expansion, and that Underground railroad, was a physical experience, but she often talked about being on the physical underground and also on the spirit underground, which is through consciousness and people are having parallel experiences.

even in this moment, there's probably someone leaving a desperate situation on a boat trying to escape something. They have to journey on an underground experience, Somebody right now. And then there's people who are in consciousness [00:24:00] awakening and they're on the spirit underground, And the journey now is internal in the prisons that we're awakening are here, they're in the mind. And Harriet really wanted to stress that the inner underground, the spirit underground. And that's where they're conducting still. That was the thing. I'm still a conductor, but here we're moving through consciousness, using air and light and.

Spirit. We've moved on from the outer underground. Not that we might not have an experience of that, but that's a whole journey. And people weren't ready for the spirit level when she was alive, that nobody was. It was such a different experience, different time. And 

Karen: there's so many things that you brought through of her that I'm sure so many people didn't know.

She didn't just do the Underground Railroad. She went on, to be a leader in the Civil War and women's rights. She did so much. But I think. All the way through her co was her bravery, was her willingness not to accept the status quo or what everybody felt [00:25:00] were the limitations of life.

 She started off as a slave, , as a woman. And there were so many limitations that. Implied in her life from the very beginning, and yet she never accepted any of those. And she was a leader in showing about how to be brave, how to take off into the night, not knowing always except having that north star of where to go.

for me in reading this book, I was surprised by the messages that I received and how inspired I was by her. we can talk about even slavery and imprisonment and all those things are so physical for so many, and yet they're also so emotional and so mental for so many as well.

And just really being able to lean in, in her example of how she, no matter what she was facing, she never allowed that to limit her and. I'm getting choked up, which I don't get up, but I feel that I feel like she can be such a role model for so many of us, no matter what walk of life we're in or no matter what our [00:26:00] experiences are looking like even 

Spring: today.

I love that and I think that is something that why Harry does back is to give a kind of transmission of strength, like we're in The great turning. And with the great turning, there's destruction, Harriet lived through the Civil War. The United States was destroyed for four years, It was in ruins the South, Everything was crumbling systems, old ways, laws, everything was, we are in a period of that. I feel that you're right. Harriet's bravery is trans and Harriet also is a protector spirit. She's a protector, and Buddhism, and Tibetan Buddhism, we would call them a wrathful deity, like a wrathful compassion we call on a protector like help.

And then it's Moses, right? Get me out of here. And then I feel like Harriet's energy. It is so nourishing and I'm sure when I, had these experiences when she was showing me the underground, I know people that were with her were terrified, of leaving and going into the dark, [00:27:00] into the totally unknown, leaving everything and her strength.

They were able to rely on her not only to leave them, but to get them on the other side of whatever the inner battles were to leaving. There's not just the physical, It's the mental, and I feel like Harriet is back to hold our hand through some portal that we are entering into.

We've probably been entering into it, but it's intense. I don't think it's gonna lighten up anytime soon. And also to say, one of the things I love about what Harriet's message was that she's I'm everybody's ancestor. Yes. I came as Harriet Tubman as a black woman, as a slave.

Yes, I had that experience. But I am a primordial ancestor. I belong to the people of Earth. And also something I really wanna keep telling people, because some people might not open to Harriet as much thinking, this is only for black people. No, this is an American ancestor who is connected to everyone who lives here and is born here so I, keep wanting to broaden that, because people could actually cut themselves off [00:28:00] from.

Having this connection to the spirit of Harriet if they think they has to be from African American tradition, this beyond that, it's connected to that. And it's bigger than that too. Oh, 

Karen: completely. 

Robyn: And you think that she chose at that time to come in as. Very, actually 

Spring: small. Yeah. African American, five feet tall. 

Robyn: Think about that in itself. what I would love for people listening, to hear from us is this idea of actually having a choice in what we come into as we're souls in these bodies.

But we actually are very specific. Who and what we come in as in our lifetime, and she. Chose to be this small African American woman with all of this 

Spring: fierceness Yeah. And that's so interesting too because I do believe, as you all believe that we come, everybody debates about do we choose our parents?

Do we choose this? Do we choose that? I believe we, we choose all of it to evolve, but the problem is as soon as we get [00:29:00] here, the 3D effect. Blocks are memories. even Harriet was showing me memories that first time where she, I read in chapter two giving me the task. It was like, oh, I remember yes.

Okay. I'm remembering I have this thing. I need to do al always, it's always been somewhere in my being, I think we forget who we are. It's almost like that's the real spiritual journey is To metabolize what we need to metabolize and then to remember our task and who we are and that we are spirit incarnated and we're here to awaken.

And it's hard to understand this collective forgetting, like why is this so hard for so many people to remember? And that's what we're doing this with, this conversation helps people, I think. Yes. And to 

Robyn: your point about how Harriet. Is an ancestor to all of us. And this idea of her leading people on the underground railroad, physically.

But then this idea that we can all relate to walking and not knowing where we're going [00:30:00] it's not literally, but that sometimes we don't know where we're going. And it does feel like we're lost in the dark with blindfolds on, right?

Yes. And we don't know. And we all go through periods of life like that. And so , if we can know there is a conduct. 

Spring: Out there. Yes. Yes. Then we feel like we can call that in as a guide. Help me get through, because I think so many people over the last couple years have been blind in the dark.

Where am I going? Where is this going? Where are we going as a world, what's happening to the earth? it's so many blinders, What are we creating? what are our communities? How do we wanna live together? What. Systems. Are we in cruel injustice systems? Collectively we're walking together.

But it does feel like blindness. I don't know if there's a clear guide to any of this. Is this the universe relating to our minds? Yeah. And 

Robyn: then you think about the fact that physically Harriet and the others who walked that underground rail, Found their way. They found their way.

They [00:31:00] got to Philadelphia. They were freed, yeah. And they didn't have maps, and they 

Spring: didn't have a phone. They 

Robyn: didn't, talk about being completely blind in that dark. when you really embody and feel that, 

Spring: Now the symbolism of it, the symbolism of the Underground River and I write about it, is symbolic.

Now, yes, we can go back and look at the historical sites and look at where people slept and walked and ate, but it's also now we can honor that, but also how do we see this as relatable to where we are in consciousness? Are we moving toward freedom? Are we moving toward this collective awakening and love and compassion?

Understanding our family as being the rainbow family. Everybody is included. So that feels we're, we need faith right now because, I think there was probably so many moments where Harriet thought, we're gonna get caught. It's not gonna work. We're gonna lose the war and the faith.

That's also the courage is a transmission. If you hold Harriet's hand, you [00:32:00] will feel stronger. No doubt. She gives that freely. It's like Quan freely gives compassion. Harriet freely gives her courage. she's like a dei. Like here's, how these different dedi have their magic, She's the one that is for this time because of this wound, of hatred. And are we gonna move toward more hatred or are we gonna just finally embrace everyone, everyone together. That's the battle right now. And it's very similar to where we were in the 18 hundreds. Not strangely, time is.

Circling back and forward simultaneously like the future and the past and the present or intersecting. 

Karen: This ability now for her to get her message out that it all transcends that on the human. Level that we are all connected. We are all our one in that sense. To be able to get her message out in that way, I think will unite more people than ever.

What did you learn spring about yourself when you wrote this book? 

Spring: Yeah, that's a great question. I think one was that [00:33:00] the role of the feminine in this new time, Harriet Tubman being five feet tall and about a hundred pounds, right? Her whole life, she was pretty thin, actually, according to her. Malnutrition, not eating, being a soldier, not eating very much but it's beyond that.

I think the thing was, we're so much bigger than we know. That was something that, it was the drum beat of every conversation and it, I realized I had a lot of blocks to that. It was like, okay, we're so much bigger than we know. And this was like going in and I think somehow by the end of the process there was an expansion.

We need to hear these things over and over. This helps us remember who we are, Because the forgetfulness is so pervasive and we help each other forget by pointing out, going in passive delusion. But I think I felt like. Women are so much more powerful than we know. Like the feminine Harriet really felt like it would be women who will save the world, but only if they believe they can.

The [00:34:00] feminine spirit. And I think that's just like the mother, the earth unless. Makes a healing stands up like the feminine energy on the planet. So there was something that went really deep in me around that, and I'm still integrating that. And then of course through here at Tubman, you don't really realize how strong you are until you.

You're tested in some way. Like every warrior needs an initiation. Until then you're not really know your power. And I felt like this was an initiation for me writing this because it was all my traumas. It was like, oh no. Now I'm back in time. I have to study slavery. Ah, I avoided all that for a long time thinking.

I don't wanna go into that cuz it hurts too much. But there was something about facing the historical trauma collectively to try to alchemize it, not just for suffering sake, but there's something about getting close to the wound in order to bring compassion to it. And believe now more than ever, this wound from [00:35:00] hatred and racism and slavery can be healed.

I have an optimism that through individuals together collectively, we can metabolize it. felt hopeful after the book. I had not a lot of hope going into it. I was trying to leave to go to South America. I was moving to Costa Rica. my stuff is still on a shipping container. It just hasn't set sale.

Now I'm going to Atlanta, but I was abandoning the us I'm getting me outta here. In here. It's no, there's something. Really good here, and all of us see it. There's a seed. There is. So the patriotism that Harriet felt was infectious. It got into me. I was like, really? There's something good here?

She was like, don't give up. Don't give up. There was a patriotism that shocked me about Harriet Tubman. I was like, how do you become, you're a slave. You had to fight. You had to, and she was like, but there's something really beautiful at the core of this country that's beyond. Don't leave, It's something worth taking a stand for. So that changed me. That was life changing. 

Robyn: And I also wanna point out too, in all that you're talking about, in [00:36:00] all that she did, in all that she faced, that she lived till she was 

Spring: 91. Yeah. I was actually really surprised by that. Yeah. 

Robyn: I don't know, there's something about that even now that it makes me think she had so much to.

And so physically she was able to your feet, a hundred pounds most of the time, malnourished. And yet she lived till she was 91. that's amazing to me, cause it's not the norm even now. 

Spring: And she took, oh, I know 

Karen: She took on roles that really weren't for women at all. 

Spring: I mean her, the near death experiences and the injuries that Harriet Tubman has had.

She was beaten up on railroad. She's had all broken arms, limbs, cuts, wounds. Her head, no medical. Ha, yeah, her blood out of her head a concussion. She had to. Surgery later in her life to fix her headaches. And there's the whole reports about that where she went to the doctor later to help with her migraines and she didn't even use an [00:37:00] anesthesia, any kind of, they just did a brain operation on her while she just sat there.

She was just present with the pain. This again demonstrates a kind of superhuman, and even the last few years of her life, before she even got sick, the last few years, she became more immobile. She had already raised money for. Her own care ahead of time, years before she knew that she would be in a wheelchair.

So she raised money for an African-American home a place to treat people who are elderly care home. She was raising money for that years before she already knew she would need that the last few years of her life, she prepared for that. So even that, she was like, okay, the last few years I'm gonna need this.

Let me start raising money now. For her own yeah. So there was a lot of clairvoyance, but it was also humble, She's I can't really stand out too much. But even in the face of saying, I don't wanna stand out, Harry was a legend as Moses back then. She was the most important person the most.

Slave Imagine the 4 million [00:38:00] people in slavery. They all knew about this. Moses taking people on the Underground Railroad, she. Was already influencing them. So it wasn't even about the people she carried on the underground. It was the million more she inspired to leave. That is the consciousness that was more impactful.

I can't take you, but you can go now. You see I did. Now you go like all the people, it was like a mass amount of people running away. A hundred thousand or more. They estimate traveled on the underground railroad. Wow. So her spirit even being humble, yeah. Was still, she was still famous, legendary and awe inspiring when she was alive.

Karen: Has she come through at all to tell you what she thinks of the book now that 

Spring: it's out? Oh, the last chapter, I was just wailing and Harriet was so proud of me. was like, you did it. This is good for right now. Because it was like all I could do, I was like, har, I'm done.

I got nothing else in the. Because it was like, so each word I was feeling it, each word was very [00:39:00] important. It was nothing haphazard in there. There was nothing that I didn't go over. Every word was placed which is, some authors do that, some don't, so I felt that Harriet was very proud of me, and Harriet has said you did your task and the ancestor world is in relationship with us.

They need collaborator. And to bring information through to bring these channeled books through to bring information through. And so I think the main thing was that I agreed to the task, I completed it, and that I feel like that was something we had agreed upon. So I do feel like Harriet's happy with it.

I wouldn't have printed it, had I not felt that I would've waited. I would've waited 20 years if it took that. 

Karen: It is beautifully done. 

Robyn: Oh, thank 

Karen: you. I feel her. In every quote that you put in there of her, I felt that dialogue back and forth. I felt the relationship that you have with her, it really came through and it didn't feel, not knowing what it was gonna be going into it.

I was wondering how it would feel, and it just came [00:40:00] through as such a loving. Conversation. That is inspiring. So thank you for doing it Spring for all of us who read the book and just were so inspired by it. Thank 

Spring: you. Oh I love this conversation cuz it inspires me. Cuz when people were able to receive the message and really feel it, it's oh yes, okay.

My task was done. 

Robyn: you really did. You did it beautifully. And in a way that. Now I feel like Harriet was coming through even to us. by coming through you, not just through the book, but the way that we found you and the way that we found the book. That was so on purpose. And now where Karen and I wouldn't have necessarily been calling on Harriet for guidance on a daily basis.

We're now calling on. And for her strength and her guidance and show us the way in whatever way she can, and so you've now introduced that into our lives and our catalyst for us to use somebody that we wouldn't have 

Spring: thought in that way. And 

Robyn: we're thinking about her [00:41:00] on these different levels in this other realm.

That to me is 

Spring: magical. that was the goal. I think that was what Harriet really wanted. Like connects, I want to take, go out to the people, and I'm moving literally to Atlanta, Georgia to bring this consciousness. So not only did I not run away from Costa Rica, I'm going toward the storm and tell us what you're working 

Robyn: on and how people can find you.

We just dove into the book, but you've had quite the history, so that's where maybe another conversation. Yeah, 

Spring: that's another one. But 

Robyn: what are you doing now? How can 

Spring: people find you? They can find me through my website, spring Washam dot com. I have everything there. On my new website, there's the books, there's my other book.

There's events, the calendar, and yeah, I'm basically just going to Georgia because I feel that I wanna share this content more. With Southerners, and be closer to, the Civil Rights Museum and closer to Dr. King's stomping grounds and to [00:42:00] just make this accessible for more people who that I might not normally ever meet Alabama, Georgia.

These are not places I'm from California. Stayed pretty much California girl. So now I feel like with Harriet, I'm going out so people can, yeah. Connect to me. I'll be having courses coming up, starting toward the end of the year while I'll try to take people through a six week journey.

 And with the end result being they feel this connection to their ancestor. And that they take it with them. Wherever you go, you've got this ancestor with you. 

Robyn: and if you can walk through life knowing that you have that support, think about how much more courageous you will 

Spring: be.

Exactly. And I think that's the point, is that, and I do believe Harriet she always said, and I think this is such a good ending, is I've never lost the passenger. Yes. I always, I kept my train on the track and never lost the passenger, which is something others can't say. And I was like, wow.

I'm sure there was missions went wrong, but there is something about that, I'll watch over you. So I feel like. That's really [00:43:00] important. So thank 

Robyn: all. Thank you, spring. We're so grateful. 

Spring: thank you. We're great. We're grateful for the book.

We're grateful to now be connected. Yes. Aw, I love this. Such a 

Karen: joy. We are really walking alongside of her, these I 

Spring: love that. Me too. did. Every day.