Seeking Center: The Podcast

What is Tarot? And Why It May Be Your Next Therapy (Part One) - Episode 35

May 26, 2021 Robyn Miller Brecker / Karen Loenser / Michelle Nolan Season 1 Episode 35
Seeking Center: The Podcast
What is Tarot? And Why It May Be Your Next Therapy (Part One) - Episode 35
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Tarot dates back to the 14th and 15th centuries. There are many theories as to why the cards were created, but in today’s world, most associate Tarot Cards with divination, which is the practice of seeking knowledge of the future, or the unknown, by supernatural means.

Karen and I have been wanting to talk about Tarot for quite some time. We found that, similar to energy healing, there are many people that practice reading Tarot, and they all have their own unique way of using the Tarot cards as tools to connect with Spirit and help you get to the root of a specific area in your life.

We recently connected with a powerhouse Tarot reader, Michelle Nolan -- who we also instantly feel is a soul sister.

Michelle is confident, compassionate -- and her connection to Spirit is undeniable. We needed to understand how she discovered her gift and to have her help us dig into Tarot.

Michelle Nolan - Tarot Therapist and Astrologer

Michelle is well-known as a gifted empath, intuitive healer and spiritual guide.

Mixing psychology, spirituality and astrology, her talent is rooted in her lifelong connection to the divine which is shared through Tarot readings which focus on each person's search for a deeper meaning in their personal lives.

Her confidential, therapeutic sessions channel guided messages that open minds and break down the barriers between emotions, the spirit and the self – giving those who work with her a clearer picture of where they’ve been, who they are, and what they want to strive for in the future.

Focused on providing clarity, she helps her clients elevate their awareness and feel empowered to move forward on their chosen path with grace, balance and a better understanding of their relationships with others and with the world around them.

To work with Michelle, email her at or follow her on Instagram @miche11e.no1an

Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter

Have you ever wondered about life's biggest questions? Like, why am I here? What happens when we die? Or what else is out there, but we have, and we love to talk about it. And if you're listening, we think you probably do too. I'm Robyn and I'm Karen and we've spent our lives searching for those answers.

And we're seekers, just like you talking to some of the most fascinating spiritual teachers, healers and scientists. And showing you how you can use some of their spiritual practices for you. We'll also be sharing stories of other seekers. They motivate you to live your fullest life. We translating it all.

So the spiritual stuff won't feel so out there. If you're curious, get ready to rediscover why we're here together. Taro dates back to the 14th and 15th centuries. There are many theories as to why the cards were created, but in today's world, most associate Terrell cards with divination, which is the practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means.

We found that similar to energy healing, there are many people that practice reading taro and they all have their own unique way of using the tarot cards to connect with spirit and help you get to the root of a specific area in your life. We recently connected with a powerhouse towel reader. Michelle Nolan, who we also instantly feel as a soul sister, Robyn and I were both fortunate to have readings with Michelle and they left us stunned.

They're unlike any other terrible ratings we've ever had. He was able to get to the core of who we are, why we came here and what steps we need to take in order to achieve true fulfillment and happiness. Michelle has come up with that compassionate and her connection to spirit is undeniable. We needed to understand how she discovered her gift and to have her help us dig into taro.

We're grateful to have her here today. Hi Michelle. So good. So Michelle, tell us what it was like growing up. Did you come from a spiritual upbringing? Well, I'm the only child of a Filipino mother and an Irish father. And I did have a very. Spiritual upbringing because my father used to be a Catholic priest.

So I was raised in a very Catholic household. I would say I still respect as a religion very much, but I don't practice it anymore. But growing up my mother from my Filipino side, She also, not only was she also a very Catholic, but she had a, a cultural background in more of like a tribal culture. Her mother was a healer in her village and her sister was also kind of known to be a medium in some form or fashion.

So there was this. Almost like a lineage, a little bit of a lineage on my mother's side, the women in the family that had somewhat of those gifts. But at that time, you know, they didn't really recognize them as we would today, but my father is also a very spiritual person. So even though he left the priesthood, when he.

Married, my mother, he taught me, can we just stop her? I said, I just got to ask a little more about this because I know everybody who's listening is going to want to ask, tell us a little bit more. I feel like this is a great movie. That's unfolding that you're, you're telling me

How they met and was your father still in the preached it and then made that choice? Yeah, so my father was a missionary in the Philippines. Sixties to seventies early, very early seventies, but more sixties. And so he actually started a radio station that my mother worked at as a DJ because she spoke English very well.

And he started the radio station to really broadcast mass and kind of religious messages to other islands because it was kind of remote. So that's how they were introduced to each other. And then, then the romance unfolded in a very atypical way. Wow. Thank you. That's fascinating. But it just says so much about the different spiritual influences that you had from the very beginning.

I was kind of a rebellious anti religion teenager, you know, so I didn't, I almost found it to be too restrictive personally and because. It was a very conventional religion. The way my father saw the way my mother saw it. I kind of rebelled against that, but I've come to realize. Through, what I do now is that the spirituality piece of it really is what stuck with me more than the religion.

And I think I really learned at a really young age to respect and appreciate having some foundation of spirituality that gives you some kind of anchor in your life. Now, I like to tell people that I believe in all. So when anyone asks me, my answer is I believe in hall. I love that. So how did your spiritual journey then evolve from there?

I get that coming from a Catholic based family, the rebelliousness, I think that's the thread. We hear a lot, but tell us how you got from that place of being rebellious and how you started to fine tune in what your spiritual practice and beliefs were. And. Where did some of these spiritual gifts come in?

Did you start now looking back? Do you feel like you had them from an early age? Yes. So when I was really, really young, my mother would tell me some of us remember some of it I don't, but that I would have a lot of dreams and I would talk about them the next day. And my mom thought they were very detailed and a little too mature, maybe for my age.

I do remember specific circumstances where I would. Remember being at places that I had never gone to and I would describe it. And my, my parents would say, well, that doesn't make sense because you've never been there before. I'm like, oh no, no, I have been there. I remember it. And I can tell you, you know, so I would describe things like that.

So there was this, I don't know if you remember, like in the seventies. Early eighties, there was ESP, like the extra sensory perception was like kind of a, a topic. And my mom at the time wanted me to get tested for it because she thought that I had some kind of those who don't know what USP is. We just want to explain, because I know I haven't heard that term. Yeah, I know no one uses that term anymore. Right. Explain what that claim, what that is extra sensory perception. So it was a very vague term for, you know, psychic ability, I guess. First of all, I didn't know that there was actually a test you could take.

And what made your mom think that you should. Because of the things I would just say out of nowhere, you know, particularly about my dreams and then also about people. Like I would just, I would just blurt things out a lot and say things that didn't seem to have any foundation in our own reality. So, and my mom growing up in the culture that she did, they're very superstitious.

So there is an undercurrent of in any Eastern, I think, culture of being very open to spirituality and any. In any form, even if she was very Catholic as a religious person, but she still had that cultural background, there was a fascination, but then also, I don't know if she necessarily wanted me to be that way, because I think that part might've scared her a little bit.

My father, on the other hand, he didn't really believe in that or he, his structure, how he believed in spirituality was much more of a formalized. So I think my rebellion came in when I drifted more towards. The metaphysical and the occult being a very curious teenager, I wanted to know everything and anything about it.

Astrology was fascinating to me. Tara was fascinating to me, reading about even Wiccan practices were fascinating to me. So, and nature was also a very big component to my spirituality. So I think as. I learned about it. I never put two things together about my gift and those practices. I just had a fascination with it.

When you talk about studying, researching about astrology and tarot, how did you learn? Because this is before the internet. I was a heavy researcher. I still am a big researcher. Right. My mom was a librarian, so I was at the library a lot. Did I would just grab a book and a lot of the visuals. Really resonated with me when I was 17, I got my first tattoo, which I wasn't supposed to write as a 17 year old.

And it came from a book that I hadn't run into at the time. And it was an oral boroughs. I don't know if you know that symbol, the snake bunny, its tail, but I didn't know what it was at the time, but it's the only tattoo I've ever gotten. And I found out years later, That a lot of healers have that tattoo.

There are a little things throughout my life like that. That would happen. You like that? What does it symbolize? Generally speaking it's about inner strength, but from a spiritual standpoint, it's about rebirth. And I know when we've talked before you talked about, there was something that would happen in terms of people reading books.

And you being able to, can you talk about, I'm not going to get it. I want you to talk about that. Yes. That was a very S that happened more in my twenties. So the dreams were more my teenage years. And then in my twenties, that shifted. And particularly with, I had a lot of male friends and so particularly with men in my life, but I don't know why that is.

I would attach almost my energy would attach to one person, friend or romantic doesn't matter. And when that person was reading, like physically reading a book, let's say, or reading something, I would notice for that brief time, I could see what they're reading and hear what they're reading. It would just happen.

And then I would blurt it out loud. So that happened to me a few times. And I started realizing when I would try to focus on it felt almost. Telepathic in a sense, but looking back on that now, I think spirit was trying to tell me, give me a sign that I should be reading. I think it was a very focused and until I really started.

Using tarot is my main tool. I never felt that feeling until I did Tarot, where I could focus that energy that I felt when I would hear what other someone was reading and be able to call that in, in Tarot. So it became a very. Like a gift and a skill where I could, the words come to me as if I'm re actually reading.

I'm thinking about tarot. And I know you talked about reading about it in your teens. Are you self-taught like, did you ever have, did you ever reach out to other people or, you know, other weeders that may have been in your area or anything like that to have a weeding? Like how did that work in terms of terror and as geology strange, I didn't.

I am self-taught so, like I said, I've read a lot about tarot and I also have watched a lot of videos about it. It was definitely self-taught and I, I think that's why I didn't take it seriously until later in my life. It's because I didn't feel like I was a professional. Like, I didn't feel like I was supposed to be, that was kind of your side thing.

And then you kind of did follow a path, right. So you went to college. Can you talk about that? Yeah, I do think it all lends together with what I do now, because I was. The study of forensic psychology in school. And then I also went back to school for higher education for art. So I feel like the combination of that is actually academically very similar to taro because visually the symbolism of taro, the artwork of taro it's highly conceptual and abstract, and then the psychology behind.

Tarot is also based in kind of our connection to our own unconscious and our subconscious patterns, behaviors. And then having this furious connection to spirit is where kind of the divinity, what comes in forensic psychology? What is that exactly in the FBI? So I will get like a profiler who studies the totality of how a person would, why would they would do something.

Particularly in a crime sense, what's their motivation. What's the behavior behind it. What's the consistency in the pattern. Very interesting. Well, and it does actually, as you said, it really does make so much sense with what you're doing now need you really kind of look at the influences, the motivations and inner drives for behaviors.

Right. And I, I know you both believe in this strongly is that we are. Guide in a path and we don't know where it's leading until we get there and then have this aha moment of wow. That all made sense now. So I kind of feel like my path has all blended together to be doing this. Let's talk about what happened to get you to here credit to a good friend of mine.

She really was the catalyst and like I said, timing is everything right. I gave her a reading as, like I said, I would do this for friends, not as much for people. I didn't know. And so I gave her a reading wants a few years ago and she's like, Michelle, like, this is a gift. Like, why are you not sharing this with the rest of the world?

You know, I'm pretty practical as a person. I'm not actually this really big woo person. So I said to myself, yeah, I don't know. This is not something I would do like for professionally, by any means, no, this is doesn't make any sense. Like, I love doing this, but this can't be my thing because it's almost too easy.

Like I almost like this is too, I don't even consider it to be work or, you know, I don't even consider that she pushed me for a few, couple of years. And then she finally said, okay, this is what I'm gonna do for you. I'm going to have a few women over at my house that you've never met, and I want you to give them readings and let's hear what their responses and if they resonate with these readings, I think you should really consider this.

So I said, okay, I'll do it. So she had the party, it was like six hours of readings and they all highly resonated with them. And in that moment I said, wow, I believe I really should be doing this for people. As soon as I said that in my mind. It was like the universe heard me and said, okay. And then before I could even blink people were contacting me and still to this day they contact me and I don't even really advertise myself at all.

Never looked back, you know, this is something, cause I know you're also very into astrology as well. Do you ever look back on that day that, that it clicked for you? And look to see what was in your chart. Oh, I should. I've never done that Robyn. That's a brilliant idea because I give it to Michael Lennox.

Who's an astrologer because you are an experienced astrologer as well. You'll be able to see were certain things supposed to happen on that specific day. So you'll have to let us know. I don't have to look at that. There's something so validating about it. Yeah, that's true. And for someone who is a big believer in that, I'm surprised.

I never looked at that for myself. Well, there you go. Thank you. So why tarot? I'd like to know definitely something I experimented with as a kid when I decided to take it more seriously, which probably was more about even six, seven years ago. I was guided, I think to tarot because one, I understood it, but I also am highly visual.

And the depth of the art in tarot is extremely profound. So that was part of it. And then the other part of it is the history it's systematic, which I think a lot of people now don't really, even though it's become popular, I don't think they really know like the history and that it's a system that's actually lasted.

600 years, which is really interesting in itself. I mean, there's, can you talk about, can you, you know, people, you don't even know what tarot is, but they've heard, they've heard the term. Right. And as you just said, it's become very popular in the last several years, especially, even though it's been around forever.

Can you talk a little bit about what taro is and a little bit about the history and the purpose? So it was, there is a debate as to what the origins are of tarot. But it was. Said to be established in like the 14th century. So very old predominantly there, the origins what's debatable, but Turkey, middle east Egypt.

And then there are derivations of it that also relate to the I Ching Eastern, you know, the Eastern tradition of I Ching, but the hardcore taro that DEXA we use now, the writer wait. The system, mainly from the middle Eastern parlor game, really, it was a parlor game that they used to just to play cards was like a bridge game called a to RoCE and in the Renaissance period in like the 15th century, 14th, 15th century in Italy, in Europe, there was a huge resurgence.

Christian symbolism, mysticism, the esoteric connecting with the divine, and then that got transformed into some of the decks that we know. There's these beautiful decks. I mean, the museums you can go to and like some of the oldest texts, I think from the 15th and 16th century, they're highly ornate and they are, the symbolism is really deep.

So it's a lot of religious, sacred geometry is very big and taro and then numerology is also important. So the numbers that are of the 78 cards. And then it's split into there's the major Arcana, which are the 22, usually call the universal archetypes of the tarot. Okay. And then there's the 56 other cards that are the minor Arcana, which is more of like the supportive energies.

So the system itself of the 78. Cards actually hasn't changed that much. The words have changed. Some of the words have changed and the meetings have changed behind the cards. And then in that to give you all the history, but in the 19th century is when probably the last big evolution of taro happened, which was.

The Rider-Waite Smith deck and then the Alister Crawley who are both from this golden Dawn secret society, actually in England. So like Brahms, Stoker, William Yeats, the poet, some very big names are part of this secret society. And it's one of the first secret societies that allowed women. So the Rider-Waite deck is actually the art was from a woman and will Smith.

So this combination of. These really big thinkers, right? Philosophers, mystics, psychologists like Carl, the Carl Young, the founder of analytical psychology used tarot. They were big believers in this system of tapping into the unconscious and then having this divine guidance that we can't really explain, but the symbols have lasted for 600 years.

And I like to look at it. As kind of this living documentation of religion, because it takes in the Kabbalah, it takes in hermetic iconology, there's, there's so many symbols that actually go from many religions and they've kind of all been. Formatted into the 78 card deck, which is very rich in history. So that gives you like a snapshot of it or heard it described so well.


Yeah. I mean, I know a lot about the history. That's a part that I think the modern. Tarot readers, which I love that people are getting into it as a, their own use for meditation. But the symbolism is so rich and it really is a documentation of how our society as a whole has connected to the divine it's yeah.

And evolve through these hundreds of years. Right across so many different cultures either. What is geometry? I've I actually haven't turned it's about, so in like Egyptian do study like this, this is in Egypt, the higher glyphs and what they can, that's why the pyramids are shaped as they are, is, is that the that's a sacred geometry, like the most stable form is a triangle.

So like even in astrology, they use a triangle as the most energetic flowing symbol is a triangle because it's stable, but it also continues. Circle, which is also like, if that's where just talking basic is about an epiphany like infinity, right? It's something that doesn't stop. So those are basic things, but there are thousands of different types of, and it's all related to energetic paths.

It's really all related. It's just, we're associating a certain snapshot of time. In our life and our society and what we deem as meaningful, but that has also happened throughout history. It's just looked at wow. And I love that thinking of it as an evolving, yes. The living like a living system, because there are, if you were to pick up a deck today which I have like some modern decks, the artwork is very modern.

It's very cool. Like, you know, like the. Even though some of the words they use now are different, but it's still sticking to that 78 card system and the artwork is still modern and the words are still modern, but you could interpret an old deck and a new deck the same way. I just want to ask one question too, just going back for a moment.

When you first started working with the cards, did you find it with an intuitive kind of. Or did you find you really had to study them? I think I had to study at first. And that's what I liked about tarot is that, is that there are specific meanings to every card. So you can pick up a book and anyone, and this is what I like about Tarot too.

Anyone can take it and use it for their own meditation for their own guidance. Right. So they can read about all the cards and understand them, probably memorize the meanings, but where the. Divine comes in where the spiritual gift comes in later is once you know that knowledge, then your intuition and your connection with the divine starts being more released and unlocked.

And that's when those interpretations become much larger than what the cards originally described. And then it's also this connection of a story that comes out with the spreads. So that piece of it in itself is. A very abstract and conceptual thing. It's not just about the one card. It's about how the cards are talking to each other.

My attitude intuitive got to answer your question about that is I think that came with practice like a, it was an instrument is where I became more gifted in becoming a reader. So I think that piece of me was always there, but that was there was that unlocking that needed to happen. Speaking of how this came to be, we find that every practitioner.

Depending on the modality has their own method. And so you call your sessions, guidance, tarot therapy. You talk a bit about your session because while Karen and I have both had tarot readings before we've never had a terror reading. Like the one we had with you. So I know we're going to talk a little bit about our own readings and you're going to do a mini reading for us today, but I would love for you to talk about how you ended up creating the type of reading that you do.

Now. I realized very early that the. Type of reading I would do would not be short. I tried, I've tried many times. Can I do a short reading? So my readings are very thorough. They're very deep. I've had this overwhelming sensation from the very beginning that what I was tapping into was really someone's soul.

I get, I feel like I, I hear, hear and sense. Messages from my guides, but more importantly, what I really feel is a direct link into someone's soul and how that soul is speaking. Okay. So that has a bit of psychology to it that has a bit of kind of a spiritual, energetic resonation of what. What I feel like is happening in the moment in the present.

Okay. So my readings, I don't feel like are hyper predictive as far as this is, what's going to happen to you. Plus I don't really believe in that anyway, because I believe that we all have free will, but I do believe that our souls are here to learn lessons. And we're continually  pulled onto a path to learn a lesson.

And if we're not learning it, then Spirit's just going to be like, well, okay, well throw it at you again. Let's see if you can learn at this time, you know, so it's really not about whether or not. Whether or not, there's a predictive outcome. And I kind of tried to get away from that in my readings, because I wanted it to be more about diving very deep within your own soul, and then bring this kind of unconscious subconscious feelings, behaviors, patterns, thoughts to come consciously.

So that that's where I feel like people are empowered. So it's like therapy. It feels like it's very similar to therapy. And I would say I'm like a tarot therapist because that's really the feeling you should have when you leave. It should feel profound and deep and heavy, but you feel lighter because you're bringing something from deep to the surface, and then now you can deal with it.

Now you can consciously deal with that and decide for yourself. What path do you want to take? And I know we're going to talk about our readings later, but what I would love to add to that from my own experience that I saw you do is, you know, for those, for those people who are not comfortable talking about their feelings or afraid to voice what they know is in there, that was the beauty of what you were able to do, because it wasn't just like.

You know, three things, three little cards that said something very surfaced to your point, you went like you were like that deep tissue therapists that really went in there to pull out the important things. And because you use the cards to kind of drive the story and like tapping into my soul guys and your own, it felt like.

It felt like you were kind of telling a story of my life, but I wasn't having to drive that drive it. You were able to kind of drive it for me. And, and, and I could acknowledge what I felt about it, but you were, you were driving it and that was the gift and actually giving a voice to your soul and giving it a voice in this 3d realm so that you can hear it.

And then process that instead of letting it sit in a place that you're not really accessing well. And in the more technical sense you also literally use, what, how many decks is it at once? I usually read, yeah. I have a bunch of deck and I just kind of use them as I go. But yeah, I mean, there's readers, there's some really good readers on YouTube and they do use multiple decks and that's.

That is, I would say, I don't know about the readers who do it in person as much, because again, I have actually really never done that, but I know that some of these larger YouTube readers do use multiple decks. I use them in a very specific way because I very much feel that if cards come out from this, the same car comes out in different decks, particularly.

Two three times then it's a very loud message and it's something that's fair. It really wants us to focus in on and pay attention to, well, we both had that happen. So we'll talk about one other question too. In regards to the reading, how does spirit come through you? I definitely think majority of it is.

Claire cognizance for me that I can feel very deeply feel that person's energy and the mix of that actually sparks a lot of intuition for me. So I think Claire cognizance is probably the biggest one, I would say clear sentience also because that, that is becoming stronger in My own, my guides. And when I call them in now in a session, I can energetically feel and hear them come from a certain place.

And I had, and they always come from my left and it's all. And I feel when they're here and then when they leave, I think that piece of chemo a little bit later, that claircognizance piece, I feel like it was always there from the beginning. Do you sense or feel the person that your readings guides as well, or is that source information coming from your guides only.

Yeah, it seems to be more so coming from my guides first time reading a few weeks ago where I sat down with somebody who I never met. And within five minutes I told her that someone was here that just passed away and that's D doesn't normally happen for me. And I can't say that won't happen again, but he was very strongly in the reading and he was speaking to me.

It was like this very strange. Reading because I had my messages and then I had his messages that he was trying to tell her at the same time. So it was, it was the first time that happened because I don't normally say I'm a medium, but I do think that I'm an energetic medium. And I definitely think I'm a.

Like psychological medium. That brings me to the question that I had, which is you've had, you've done so many readings and you are so forthright about really fully sharing exactly what it is that you're feeling. But I wonder, has it ever happened to you that you have felt or received a very strong message?

For someone that you felt would be really difficult for them to hear or accept. And how, how do you deal with those kinds of experiences when you're reading somebody, maybe who's not used to getting a terrible reading. It doesn't happen. I'm very often. Do you have a few circumstances where it was pretty heavy?

I do always tell people right up front, whether they believe me or not, that no energy is good or bad, that there's high vibration and low vibration and the energy wants to shift and change. And so. We can't ever isolate that as something bad. Like there's nothing bad. That's going to come out of this reading.

You're not going to be scared. I'm not going to tell you that the worst case scenario is going to happen in your life. That's not going to happen, but I did have a reading. I would say it was my worst reading in the sense of it was the scariest, maybe for me and for the person that was hearing it. And it was mainly because she was a friend of mine and I've done readings for her for many years.

And she was pregnant at the time. I have thought ethically about whether or not I should read certain things like medical and pregnancy falls into that, but she really wants to do this reading before her baby was born. So in that reading, I sensed that the labor was not going to go well. And that it was to the point where I didn't even feel like either her or the baby would survive.

So it was. A very scary moment for me, because I was contemplating whether I should even talk about that with her. And I was very honest and I said, I'm, I'm, I'm getting something that I don't think we should talk about right now. And I think we should end the reading. So, but she wanted to, and she said, no, I really, whatever you're going to have.

Say I want to hear it, but she brought her husband into the reading as well, because it was that intense. We finished the reading. I second guessed myself whether or not I should have even done that. And her husband was great. Actually, he's a very spiritual person too. And he said, you know, I do believe strongly, whatever was said in this reading, we were supposed to hear whatever happens happens.

It's not in your control. You know, you're not controlling this. And I'm like, thank you. I, that's not how I feel right now. I feel guilty, but okay. But for that time period before her labor, I was very scared. And so was she, and because we've done so many readings before, I haven't really been that off, but what happened was she had her baby and baby was beautiful.

Everything was great. It was perfect. And I was like, wow, this rocked me. Like, it rocked me to my core because it, I said to myself, I don't know if I should do these anymore. I actually very much second guessed whether I should do these at all, feelings were so intense. Like, didn't understand how so off.

And then I went to see her baby when they got home from the hospital, like the day after they arrived back home and everything was great. And then that evening she felt very ill. And then to the point where she kind of collapsed and they had to rush her to the hospital and she had preeclampsia. Host labor, which is kind of rare to have.

So she actually almost died in the hospital that she was in a coma for a couple of days. And then they didn't really know if she was going to survive in those those few days. But you did. Everything's good. And we're, or everything's healthy and happy, but her husband actually died. And me from the hospital to tell me, and then the next day or two, couple days later when she was, well, she texted me and said, She said, when I was laying on the floor, you said something to me in the reading that said, I don't know what feeling, what the feeling I'm getting is.

I just know that you're going to feel like you're going to die. And she said, I was laying on the floor in the bathroom and it's the only time I've ever felt like I was going to die. And I, that literally popped in my head. Or you said, I feel it. You feel like you're going to die. And so she's texted me and said, please.

Don't stop doing readings, please don't stop. And so I continue. Wow. Such a dilemma. I just felt you that story, the chills up and down that emotion and the energy that we could feel even via zoom from you telling it, the general consensus I hear. If people have not done terror ratings is first thing they say is, well, I'm so scared.

I don't want to hear what's going to happen, or I don't, I don't want to hear. Something bad happened. It was like the very first thing they thinking like for tarot, I think that is in general, right? Like if you're going to see any sort of intuitive or a medium or an astrologer, I've never personally had that experience in, in the cases for the people that I know.

They've heard things that actually have validated. When they've been going through a dark time or a challenging time, it's only validated it rather than invoked fear. Yes. And that's what I tell people all the time. I am a big believer that at least my sessions are supposed to be healing. It might rock you for a little bit, some truths, but generally correct.

And I think if you walk away feeling scared, then you might need to question what you're saying. Seeing as I think what it's done with love, and it's done with this intention of healing, you wouldn't leave scared. I think you could do a session like this, and then let's say, go to therapy and then work on how to really deal with what came up in that session.

Right? Like how do I now move forward knowing that I want to do X, Y, Z, and then the traditional therapist could give you those skills. To be able to try to change those behaviors or those patterns often do people come back to you on a regular basis? I think if you're going through something, just like when you were to go to therapy, right.

If there's something specific in your life that you're, it's weighty, I think going once a month is great. Like I think, you know, kind of having this. Consistency being able to sit for an hour and a half and really work through what's happening in your life is important or not. And it's just kind of a general spiritual check-in like, I would say that I think like once every three months is good, once a season to kind of like refresh and kind of get in touch with.

Where you're at in your path and where you're headed. I wonder when you were talking about your decks, do they have personalities to you? A hundred percent? Absolutely. I mean, I find almost every deck beautiful, you know, and has its own energy to it. And I picked them intentionally. I tried to pick them in relationship to the person's energy and what they are like and what they, I think that we're trying to get out of it.

But I also, like when I get a new deck, The creator of those decks, they have put a lot that person or multiple people have put a lot of work into and thought into the artwork into sometimes they add cards in there that aren't in other decks. And so you have to really understand that deck before you're using it.

So there is that, you know, again, the studying the technical piece and then there's. This kind of intuitive nature of just like art is it's conceptual, it's abstract, and you get an energy and a feeling from the specific colors and the, the way that placement is the composition and that kind of stuff. You can't really, you can't get from a book.

Right. You're getting that from the deck itself. So yes, every, every deck definitely has its own unique energy. For sure. Let's talk about our sessions. I know for Karen and I, we left. Our readings with you, just so in awe of what came through for each of us. And we did them separately and they were, as you described, so in depth and they were for sure, our souls talking to each one of us.

And which is why I know we're talking to you today because I also have to just, I kind of want to pinch myself, Karen, because Karen and I have talked about wanting to find somebody to really talk about taro and for us to have a relationship with someone who we really trust. A long time. It wasn't until this reading with you for each of us, that we were like, Michelle is our terrible person and we know there's other terrible people out there, so don't get me wrong.

But I just wanted to say that we're so grateful to Alice. Hers who introduced me to Michelle. I really just thank you both because I, that's just amazing affirmation for me, which I think I've both said to you, but also I just, I mean, I'm just thankful to spirit too for just bringing us together because that is, it did all seem like it just.

Came in at the right time. So many ways. I mean, here's the other thing, I think if we hadn't had other readings, we wouldn't know any better. Right. Like that. True. And what I think we've been talking about, and what we learned is that the experience that you offer is just, it is a soul changing experience.

It's not just. A parlor game. It's not just, you know, shake that magic eight ball and tell him, you know, read it. And it's the depth of understanding and work that you've already done. Enter gift. Karen took during hers when we were done, I was bummed because I typically either record the reading or I take it.

Notes and I didn't in this case. And you said to me, you don't need to worry about it. Your soul will remember what it needs to remember. And I think that is such an important note for people in general, when you're in a specific reading, you don't take notes and it's not recorded. Remember what Michelle said?

Which is your soul will remember what it needs to remember and it, and it did. And we also took a picture of my spread. When I refer back to that picture in a second, I'm able to remember the whole chain of events and where things are going and that snapshot of my life. So of my soul, I should say. And I think you both have experienced this now is that it really is a journey at the end.

You just have this really wonderful way after your mind is blown. And there's so many things that you're trying to take away from it to kind of bring you in for a landing, just for anybody who's listening. It is a very deep, long reading, but at the end of it, you really do come out of it with very clear understanding of what the key message is.

This is an aside side, but my daughter who's. Seven years old is also a very, I feel like a very spiritual being herself. She recently said that she saw my grandmother who has passed, and she's never done that before. She's she's talks about some things, but she's never really said that specifically. And so I had a conversation with her about it.

She was telling me things about my grandmother, that she would not have known. So I was pretty confident that she was speaking with her and she actually told me, she said, Lola, that's my Filipino grandmother. Lola is telling you very specifically that she's the one sitting next to you on your left telling you these messages, because she knows you're also a healer.

So very surprising. So now I'm, I feel like I'm more connected to her in that way. We'll get you. And I can just, I hope you see what an amazing teacher you are and how you are helping. So many people lead the way into learning about this. So many people who would maybe never, or may have kind of pushed it off to the side, thinking it, there wasn't really anything to it.

It's deep and it's. Thought provoking and you will feel better afterwards. Do a mini. Tell me what you're comfortable with. Cause I know you don't know. Let's let, I mean, I'm always willing to try. Can you tell people how they can contact you? If they're interested in a reading? The best way to contact me is my email, which is M at.

M T as in Tom Nolan and O L a And if someone wants to follow you on social, is Instagram the best place to find you? Yes, Instagram, which my handle is Michelle dot Nolan, but all the L's are ones watch or listen to Michelle, give Karen and I are reading about our journey together in part two.

What is Tarot? And Why It May Be Your Next Therapy (Part One)