How do you dream? Do you remember your dreams often? Or, are you someone that feels like you never remember them? What are our dreams anyway?
Meet Dr. Michael Lennox. He calls himself -- an “ambassador to conscious embodiment”. Once you know his background -- and feel his incredible and vibrant soul...you’ll quickly realize the truth in this description!
Michael is a renowned dream expert and astrologer. He also has his Masters and Doctorate in Psychology. He is the author of several essential books on dreams. And he leads workshops and classes, while also keeping a private practice, with clients and students from around the world.
His passion, experience and extensive knowledge on dreams, astrology, and our psyche, make him a frequent guest on many television shows and podcasts.
We do a deep dive into dreams. We cover all the bases. From how to remember them to understanding what they are trying to tell you. And what is the relationship between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind? Then we talk recurring dreams, nightmares — and even lucid dreaming. Plus, we discuss “Shifting Reality,” the trend on Tik Tok that has a lot of parents scratching their heads.
We then jump into astrology. Should we be paying attention to our horoscopes? Dr. Lennox has an opinion on that! And what’s in store over the next 15 years?
We’re honored to introduce you all to Michael. It’s an unforgettable conversation!
For readings, Astro Alerts and more visit http://www.michaellennox.com
Follow Dr. Lennox on Instagram: @drlennoxdreams or on Facebook: @drmichellennox
Visit theseekingcenter.com for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!
You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter
Have you ever wondered about life's biggest questions? Like, why am I here? What happens when we die? Or what else is out there, but we have, and we love to talk about it. And if you're listening, we think you probably do too. I'm Robyn and I'm Karen and we've spent our lives searching for those answers.
And we're seekers, just like you talking to some of the most fascinating spiritual teachers, healers and scientists. And showing you how you can use some of their spiritual practices for yourself. Also be sharing stories of other seekers then motivate you to live your fullest and we'll be translating it all.
So the spiritual stuff won't feel so out there. If you're curious, get ready to rediscover why we're here together.
How do you dream? Do you remember your dreams often? Or are you someone that feels like you never remember them? What are dreams anyway, meet Dr. Michael Lennox. He calls himself an ambassador to conscious embodiment once you know, his background and feel his incredible and vibrant soul you'll quickly realize the truth in this description.
Michael is a renowned dream expert and astrologer. He also has his master's and doctorate in psychology. He's the author of several essential books and dreams, any leads, workshops, and classes, while also keeping a private practice with clients and students from around the world, his passion experience and extensive knowledge on dreams, astrology, and our psyche.
Making a frequent guest on many things. Television shows and podcasts. We're honored to introduce you all to Michael. Yay. Yay. Yes, happy fucking Friday. I was so glad we're doing this. Me too. I'm excited actually. So you hadn't a doctorate in psychology. You were a practicing psychologist, the study of dreams and astrology.
Yes. Really interesting tale because I discovered dream interpretation as a teenager. And then I got my doctorate in psychology in my forties. So the dreamwork came way, way, way, way, way, way, way before I went and changed my life by going to school, like I was working as an executive in the entertainment industry, it was going to grad school that sort of the marking of, I need to do something rich with my life in service.
But dream interpretation started as a kid because I re you know, would be in social settings and people would say I had a crazy dream last night. And I had just read Freud's interpretation of dreams because it showed up on my mother's bookshelf because she was getting an MSW. I was like, wow, dreams, man.
And so I would tell people in high school, well, tell me what you dreamed. I had something to say about it and what would happen when I would do that? Is people would respond that their eyes would broaden. They'd be like, wow, that's fascinating. No, I don't remember what I would say as a 16 and 17 year old dream interpreter.
But I did later learn as I followed this gift that there was this universal language of symbols that I just got my gift isn't that I know things it's that I, my mind just works so fast that as you're telling me your dream. A story about the story is unfolding in my mind so that I can spit back to you the same story you just told me, but in the language of symbol and energy, and that's what would make kids eyes wide in high school.
So I kept doing it throughout my adult life. So by the time I got to grad school, I had already been seeing clients as a dream interpreter. I'd been doing workshops in Los Angeles, teaching people how to interpret their dreams. And I got a lot of flack in grad school about how you behold dreams as a therapist, which, you know, people would say, you should never tell people what a dream means.
And I would be like, no, You should never tell people what a dream means, but I get to, because it's a God given. Yes. That also to me is very intuitive. Yeah. Intuitive. And it's a kind of thinking, it's the kind of intelligence of facile intelligence that I have, which has blind spots too. Like I, you know, I would drive to Playboy my last corporate job and I would pass Elm street, pine street, maple street.
It took me five years to see that there were all trees. So like my mind won't work over here in a precise way, but over here it's like, why do you think retrieve Michael? Well, you know, because I am half scientists, I understand that there's metabolic processes. The brain is creating short-term memory. By re sort of visiting everything that's happened during the day.
There's a metabolic waste removal that happens in REM sleep. This bizarre thing where the brain cells shrink and cerebral spinal fluid fills the spaces in between when the brain cells stretch back up that cerebral spinal fluid takes metabolic waste out of the brain, which causes by the way, scientists to declare the dreams have no meaning.
Because there's this functional aspect, but it's crazy that when we're in this state, we were open to this magnificent field of potential where anything is possible because we are God. So I think if there's a purpose to dreams, it's to connect us to the part of ourselves that is. Greater than our individual embodied consciousness, which is so limited by our thinking.
It's how we survive. If we didn't have our thinking mind, we would, we, how else would we not bump into the furniture? But when that mind goes to sleep, we are able to connect neck to our magnificent divine self. And I think there's a purpose in that that keeps us grounded in our connectedness to our greater sense of spiritual consciousness.
Great answer. Yeah. I mean, I've never heard of it. Explain that way. So then what do you think dreams are? I think they're snapshots of our unconscious mind at any given moment. They are a way of looking into the depths of us that is below this. Remember this conscious mind, like, you know, put on a sweater, it got cold out, you know, you're an asshole, you know, That mind, but the deeper unconscious, which is our greatest part of us is much, much, much, much bigger and richer.
I think dreams allow us to see that to be with it. You know, life is terrifying. Death itself is a terrifying thing about being alive. That people don't talk a whole lot about. I love when I say to people like you to fear of death and like, I don't have a fear of death and it's like, Oh, you mean you don't have an unconscious, you, you know, we're all afraid of death, but in the dream space, We go into the void.
We go into the place where death is not a thing where we are infinite. And so in that place is where our fears and limitations where we say no to life is down there. That's I think one of the values of looking at dreams is that the dream. Scape says, especially when nightmares are present, says, here's where I'm saying no to life.
Here's where I'm saying no to expansion. Here's where I'm saying no to love. And if I spend some time with that dream, that scary dream that has risen up, I believe that that loosens the grip of our fears of being our magnificent selves. So how can we can all remember our dreams? Like I remember maybe.
One a week in some ways, this is technical in the brain. Think about visual stimulus. We are very visual beings. So we see with these things called the eyes and the brain has a spot that processes visual imagery. When we're in dreamland, that spot is quiet and other parts of the brain are expressing, and we are in our inner brain vision seeing imagery, but then when we wake up, We open our eyes and this part of the brain lights up way louder than the part that's been visually stimulated in the dream state.
So it's like, it just shuts the door. It slams the door shut. You can think of this outside of brain chemistry. It just, they, you wake up and you get distracted. So some people are wired to have a looser window between that. Rousing wake experience. And what was present in the unconscious. There are people who are wired to have less abruptness in the separation between sleeping consciousness and waking consciousness.
Yes, it is possible to increase it as it's going to ask you. Absolutely. I would say everybody can move themselves further. Into the, sort of up the continuum of dream memory, the intention is everything right. Intention is powerful, powerful, powerful. So anybody who wants to remember their dreams more, I'd say, start with the intention, make bedtime a sacred act, ask your higher self, whatever that is for you.
Hey dreams please. Second thing got to have the recording device. Accessible. Remember once we wake up, we're going to be easily distracted energetically at one part of the brain is going to shut down and the other part's going to wake up. So you want to be able to reach for the pad or the journal of the recording device quickly, right by your bedside.
But here's the most important thing that I have never, ever heard. Anyone else say, write something down no matter. Well, don't wait for the dream to go to the pad, go to the pad. Even if what you writes is I don't even remember any of my dreams last night. Then you wait a moment and you're like fluffy cat or nothing, but it's that act of going to the pad that I believe signals the unconscious to keep that window open.
Would you say the most important dream of your evening is that last year? Well, yeah, there's a belief. First of all, we do spend longer in REM the later the REM cycle. So the first, second and third, you should see about three in a night. And that last one is the longest spent and closest to waking. So we are always going to remember more the dream we had in the morning.
So then how can we start to understand. Stand our dreams, but we're experiencing what we're seeing. This is the peccadillo of my work. If you come to me and share a dream and I offer an interpretation and you go, wow, that makes so much sense that you have this really satisfying experience of you had a dream.
You told it to me. I told you what I think it means. And you went, wow. Yes. That winds up looking like dreamwork, but it's only one element of dreamwork. Dreamwork itself is a just thinking about wanting to remember a dream and not remembering any is dreamwork. It's you saying? I want to know more about my unconscious.
That's a powerful choice, especially in a world where everybody's going to move it around like unconscious. So anybody saying I want more from my unconscious is doing dream work, remembering a dream and writing it down. That's dreamwork what's happening. There is now the dream is out of the ethers and onto the paper.
It has more life because it's on paper and you're writing it and then maybe you're reading it. That's having a relationship with your unconscious. So that's dreamwork sharing it with somebody else. Hey Karen, crazy dream last night. Oh yeah. Robyn, tell me what it was. That's even greater dream work because now you're taking it from the ethers to outside of you to sharing it with another human being, working on understanding what it means.
There's lots of techniques to do that on your own that are not about going to somebody and having them tell you, but sitting down, you might write out the symbols and words of association. There's all sorts of ways to do. Dreamwork with looking at what the symbols might mean. That's dreamwork. And to me, the most important, valuable richest, most, you know, yummy thing you can do in response to a dream is do something creative that reflects the dream that you had.
Draw it out, write a poem, dance around your living room, acting it out the unconscious. Doesn't understand our linear thought. It's a land of symbols. So if you draw your dream, the unconscious goes, woo. He's getting it. He's paying attention. Let's give him another dream. So the point I'm trying to make is Treme work is not about knowing what your dream meant.
It's about having a relationship with your unconscious, that you do that privately with your dream journal and suddenly out and about in the world. You wind up having a greater appreciation of the idea that we are unconscious beings. So talk about that. What is it, your brain, just trying to give you the same message over and over.
And you're just not, there's an, there's an economical thing that the brain will do. Like it. Busy up there. Right. So anything that it can do quicker and with abbreviation, it will do. So you will have come across some stress related imagery that matches a sense of I'm not prepared. I'm not ready. I don't know enough.
Right. So it might be you're in your twenties and you're at your first sort of job. And then you wake up from this horrible dream of I get by my locker. I didn't graduate from high school. Well what's high school. That's where we learn how to be accountable and responsible. So that image winds up being a good image to reflect an anxiety of I'm not ready to be accountable and responsible when the brain recognizes that that stressor and this inner image.
Match each other, the brain will say, good, great. I got the shorthand. So it's like every time I'm stressed, that dream will come up. That movie inside out is like a primer of how dreams, memory and the unconscious work. Right. And so there's this whole little dream factory and they're like, Oh, get the clown.
Get the clown. Because the clown matches, you know, the fear. Everybody will have some version of this. So when someone shares that with me, I say, here's how it works. When you have that dream, your job is not to try to figure out what the dream means. Cause we already know what it means. You're stressed.
You're afraid. You're, you're anxious. You wake up and you go, okay, what's triggering this. What circumstance, what relationship, what obligation is causing this anxiety that brought this particular image up? Would would you say that's the same for going back to your talking about your unconscious and when something from decades ago, a person that you haven't seen since you were five or six years old comes up in your dream and you, and you remember that when you wake up, like, why did I see that person?
What do they represent for me? What is that about? It just is making me think about like, is it. Have to do with stress or have to do with something that you didn't deal with. One of the things about this question is it does point out that there are multifaceted ways to look at like the why as a person will come into a dream.
So when I answered this question, I want to make sure that I'm also acknowledging that. This is not the right way or the only way to work with the who shows up in your dream. But it's the most valuable way as far as I'm concerned, we go immediately to the idea that if they're in your dream, they're reflecting an aspect of self.
I don't care if you know them. I don't care if you're related to them. I don't care if they're a stranger to you, the easiest way to sort of figure out what that means is. Give yourself like two or three adjectives that describe the energy of that person, you know, are they warm and nurturing from when you were five, then you're dreaming about the warm, nurturing, safe parts of you.
If they were awful or critical or violent, then you're there. You're dreaming about that aspect of self or that aspect of life. So there's ways of distancing yourself from the personal. Experience and get into the universal experience. And that's the dream work that I do now cut to that. They mean everything else as well.
A dream about a person from your life is also reflecting your relationship with that person or your relationship with qualities that you experienced because of who that person was. I call that the outer circle of interpretation. So the inner circle of interpretation, where it's just all you. And then that outer one absolutely is valuable and beneficial to look at, but because of the way that I do dream work, which is really usually fast and furious with a client here or workshop there, I'm not interested in that outer circle because that's too, I need to know too much about you to be helpful and valuable, but this inner circle to me is actually more valuable because it's just you with you thinking about who you are and then the work.
That the dream might be reflecting. It's very easy to identify as opposed to when the dream you're looking at the dream, meaning about the relationship itself. I just think that everybody, as you, it gives more transformative. Are there universal symbols though? Like my mom had a book too about dreams, and I remember like that, you know, You're losing your teeth.
You can't run away. I think one of the things speaking to Karen is the standard universal dream image that everyone had. Like everyone at some point is going to have a falling dream flying dream of being chased dream. Possibly a teeth falling out dream. I would say teeth falling out was about the fifth, most universal dream.
But yeah, because like I had it from one to five to 35, it was the worst. And think about it. This is our center of communication. Teeth help us attract love. With a smile. I smile. You get not, not that smile. That was creepy smile, but in a warm, yummy smile and get a draw. Love to me. I'm going to use my teeth to nurture myself by processing food.
This is chewing by the way, in case you were wondering what that gesture is, they also help protect ourselves. You can re we don't do this as humans really, but snarling. Is also a team thing. So this is such a powerful place of sovereignty and expressiveness. And so to have teeth falling out is to express insecurity, especially about the power of your voice.
So falling. Why do people have fallen dreams? It's the one thing that can kill you out of the womb. It's the only fear that's like pre-installed is like loud noises. And because we born into gravity. So the moment you take your first breath falling is something that's built into the body is dangerous. So it's one of the most common, frightening dreams in the same vein.
It's a facto flying is in that top five because it's. Antithetical to follow me. I even like to think of gravity pulling you down as like a symbol for shame as a flying is to be free. Those challenges of being in a body that looked like shame. Yeah. And despair. So everybody is going to have at least some, experience of one of those five major recurring dream symbols.
And then the sort of other side of the answer to that question is back to the notion that for me, The truest, bestest universal, meaning behind any symbol has got to connect to what it does. What's its use. What's its essence. What's its purpose that will tell you how to behold its meaning. And that's something you don't need before you can just going back to intention.
How can we receive specific information or guidance from our dreams? Petitioning is what that's called. I love this. I do believe in the dynamic relationship between conscious and unconscious. And I do believe that dreams is where it is most vibrant. It's like literally visiting the other party in this binary world that we are in conscious and unconscious.
You literally go into the unconscious and dreamland. So if that's true that. Portion of our psyche has all of the answers to everything. It also has all of the mystery and all of the terror and all of the void and all of the everything. So it's not clean to get the answer down there. Cause you got to dive into the void, but you can ask for information from your dreams in the similar way that we talked about you set the intention, you got to ask it gotta be specific though.
I work with clients who petitioned their dreams, just in a general sort of. Please give me a dream that tells me what I need to know at this moment. The tricky part of that work is to trust the dream that comes. And if you say, Oh, I don't know. I don't think that dream answered my question. It's like, yeah, that, yeah, that's a manipulation.
This could yield. Great, great results. Again, this fixated need to cognitively understand what it means is not the point. The point is to be in relationship with the questions to be in relationship with the mystery and the deed to have it makes sense is an obstacle. You want to think of those moments of great clarity as like the fun benefits that happen now.
And then. The relationship is the point. And now, and then the, the, the relationship will yield something clear, precise and yummy. I don't know. I know I needed to hear this, so I'm sure others did too, because you know, we don't stop and really think about. This relationship within it, a relationship within ourselves, a relationship you can for granted, right?
It's like, Oh yeah, it just had the stream. And you just kind of move on parents, kids all the time, which I would like to stop every parent from ever, ever, ever, ever saying this. It's just a dream or imagine you're a child you're in your beautiful unconscious relationship. And it's terrifying because it's a nightmare.
And you're having a real experience of your own self with self it's powerful. It's profound. Yes, it's scary, but it's a profound, intimate moment. Self would show. And then the parent who is God comes in and says, Oh, it's nothing granted. The parent is doing the right thing. They think by saying, I've got to come up with my child, much hard and scared, but the richer response would be to join them, to echo and mirror them.
That's to say, ah, you've had a dream. You've had a dream. That's scary. I'm so sorry. You're scared. I'm here. You're safe. That doesn't dismiss. Then the rich beautiful relationship. That's natural and organic for us to have with our dreams, which actually leads to our next question, which is about nightmares.
What kind of insight do you have about nightmares that nightmares are the unconscious his way of making sure we're paying attention has still sound like an oxymoron in the unconscious to reach up into the conscious mind with some information. The nightmares, like a guarantee that the waking consciousness will pay attention.
Right. So I don't know if that's true. How would I know if that's true, I'm just a bozo on the bus. Who's having dreams. Right. But it makes some sense to me based on what I've watched. Not only myself, but others. Have powerful awarenesses or paradigm shifts. Our thoughts about life as a result of looking at a nightmare instead of dismissing it, I behave as if I believe that a nightmare is because the unconscious wants you to pay attention to or not.
It certainly gets your attention. Doesn't it? It does. And it seems like more likely to share about it with another person. Life is terrifying. We're all doing this job of saying, Oh, I got this. I'm good, but it's fricking terrifying dreams. And nightmare specifically allow that fear to have a voice. And without that, how would we wake up the next day and face the terrifying world?
If we didn't have some way of letting that fearful sensibility? Have its day. Well, I think if you start to look at it that way and realize that is your way of dealing, then maybe it's not reoccurring. So then you're not scared to go to sleep. You know what I mean? Yes, yes. Yes. Cause I I've known people who have been afraid to, to, to go to sleep because of that.
You know, one of the things that I've seen over the years when people have been sort of stuck in a chronic nightmare narrative, Is that as soon as I introduced them to working with some of the imagery that was chronic and repeated the dreams changed well, let's, let's talk about lucid dreaming. I want to know what you think about that and advice for those of us who might want to try it.
Sure. So I personally have never been really drawn to lucid dreaming as something to chase. I will say this, I have had to. Full on lucid dream experiences in my life. One of which was like, so numinous, it is one of those things. Like I could die the next day. Like I could die happy after that experience because I was in a dream as awake.
As I am right now, it was unbelievable. And I was even like, I'm in that room and I'm sleeping, but Oh my God. I'm then I had another one. Wasn't quite bright. The reality, there was CPS, it was like sepia tone, but it was just as conscious and lucid. There were six. Men sitting around a picnic table. And I went up to them.
I said, you know, we're all dreaming, right? Like we're all actually dreaming this. And they were all like, yep. We know, wow. I get why people would want to chase that because those experiences were amazing. So what is it? I'm not sure. I know, but there is this idea that this conscious mind that goes to sleep when we're dreaming, somehow can wake up a little bit or become sort of dialed online and that's lucidity.
The lowest vibe of that would just be, Oh, I'm dreaming. And then it just, I think can raise up to the top of the experience that I've had twice, which is full on wakefulness inside of the dreamscape. I certainly believe that this speaks to the notion of the relationship between conscious mind and unconsciousness at the unconscious really is the bigger part of us.
Our, our soul resides in the, in the unconscious. And the consciousness is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm talking about a relationship that goes both ways. There's brain chemistry that happens in there that causes the awareness to wake up a little bit. Ho how did you get into that lucid dream state? Was it like just before you woke up?
I couldn't even, I couldn't even answer the question. Like, I don't even know. It was just a regular dream inside of my sleeping experience. That was like that there was no thought about it or prep for it. I woke up and I was like, wow. And that was sort of it. I receive that as, thank God. I know the possibility so that when I'm interacting with it, as somebody who is interested in lucid dreaming, who does want to chase the experience that I know it.
So there's one technique that most people have heard of. If they've looked into this at all, which is the idea that you look at your hands. During the day with the intention to seeing your hands in your dream state so that when you do, you'll be sort of shocked into an awareness that you're lucid dreaming.
What I love about this. When I first heard this. I was like, Whoa. Okay, sure. Whatever I get. I never practiced. Cause I wasn't interested when I went to grad school and I studied brain chemistry and learned that in REM sleep, one of the things the brain is doing is going over every single thing, the brain collected in data during the day.
It has to, because we've collected all of this material through our senses. And if we don't offload some of it and turn some of it into memory, we can't function the next day. So one of the things that the brain is doing, he's like, Oh, this is important. That's a memory. The rest is irrelevant. And to know it's irrelevant.
It has to re-experience it. This is why so many dreams. It at night include material from your waking life. So if you look at your hands every day, maybe 20 times and go, Oh, I'm going to remember this in my dreams. Ooh, I'm going to remember this in my dream. Ooh, I'm going to remember this in my dreams.
Eventually I'd night asleep in your dream state. When the brain is going through data from the day it's going to go, Oh, and you're going to go, Oh my God, this is it. This is what I'm waiting for. I'm lucid dreaming. Yeah. I have some friends who are going to really love hearing that I had a client or, or a six week lucid dreaming class where a group of people were in constant consideration of this over six weeks, the goal was to interview a dead famous person.
And this client said it was Marilyn Monroe. I don't know why I'm getting emotional. Tell you the story, Joe. He spent six weeks intending, intending, intending, intending, and I'm sure there were probably techniques of writing and meditating, but specifically focused on like a maniacal intention idea to have Marilyn Monroe come from.
For an interview, not like just Marilyn Monroe in my dream, Marilyn Monroe to come for me to interview her. And after about five or six weeks again, this makes me emotional. He had the dream and Marilyn Monroe came up, sort of had a chair and said, I'm here for my interview and sat down and. She interviewed her in his dream.
I have the chills. I got emotional telling you this story. And again, if I try to figure out why it's, because I, I love the fin veil. There's something professionally there's resonance there's truth in that I think we all believe that we can. Yeah.
If somebody wants to interview their higher self or their grandmother that passed away, like people that are looking for specific guidance in their lives, right. And instills into them an idea that, ah, I can in fact use my intention to have a higher, greater experience in my waking life. So it might be about what I want to have in my dreams, but you come out of that experience with a greater belief in the veils between worlds and the greater sort of trust of your own unconscious.
I think there's value in doing the work that's way beyond the amusement park ride of remembering a lucid dream. Definitely. I think it gives hope. Oh honey, you nailed it. We need hope right now. Yeah. Well, I know this question came actually from somebody that knew we were doing this episode and they asked, do you believe that dreams could be connected to deja VU?
So what is deja VU? First of all, we got to start with a time is an illusion. Time is an illusion that every quantum physics knows this, right? So this isn't even woo that we are in an experience of linear time that we experience in a certain way, but that every moment exists infinitely deja VU is not that we've been there before, because.
That's not possible, but time does not exist. And the sensation that I can imagine if I could live in that consciousness would be, I've been here before. Why? Because I'm here in eternity. I am infinitely in this story. The moment of opening my door while the car screeches and the bird flies by. And so the veil of that perception.
Rips open for a moment as I opened the door and the car squeegees and the bird flies by, and I say, I've been here before and we call that deja VU. If, if that's sort of what deja VU is, it's the conscious mind, the waking mind that is time it self. This part of our consciousness is a day to day to day to day building of time.
It's not real, but it's how we navigate the forward movement. And so this goes to sleep and we are then connected to the infinite consciousness where there is no time. And so in that way, I could comfortably say dreams and deja VU are like, Cousins. Wow. That answers it. I think of deja VU in that same way.
And then I always say it's a blip in the matrix, the matrix that, that is. The short answer to the long answer. It's up, live in the matrix. All right, Robyn, you have to ask them. I know, I know it comes because I have a 12 year old daughter and all of her friends are talking about shifting reality. And it's this trend on Tik TOK.
I don't know if you've heard of it. No. Okay. So 57. Well, I see the share on Facebook daughter and her friends. And I think for anyone listening that has a teenager, they're hearing this from their kids. My daughter will write out a script on how, what she wants to happen and what people are going to say in this altered state.
And for her, let's say it's being in Hogwarts. Having a dialogue with one of the characters in Harry Potter and she will write the whole thing out. And then she listens to a meditation. I actually talked to a friend who is a neuropsychologist, and I asked him if, if I should be scared,
Well, I would be delighted. I'm like, what is she doing? You know? And he said, you don't have to be worried about this, but I thought I would ask your opinion on that too. Oh my God. First of all, and it gets me excited. Second of all, it makes me want to talk to young people. I know this is extraordinary.
First of all, that idea, that's sure playing in the unconscious feel that that is a sacred act. Maybe it's done in, you know, cute. Teenage like imagery, but the idea is I create my reality with my thoughts. We've been trying to teach this to humanity for about the last hundred years. Ernest Holmes came along and created a science of mind about a hundred something years ago and took what, you know, the sort of throughout the things about Christianity that were dogma related and said, change your mind, change your life, change your thoughts, change your life.
And then that, you know, so Abraham Hicks. Is directly back to Ernest Holmes. There's no separation between that. So this is an acceleration and an extension of something that the human race has been working on for over a century in terms of expanding the power of the dynamic mind. That creates reality.
That tells me we're going to have peace for humanity. It's that's how we'll have. Peace for humanity. When enough people on the planet understand that their thoughts are creating their reality and thoughts in congruency with the heart and the feelings become form. And when enough people know that, then enough conscious people can say, well, let's create a new world.
By more people joining the inner experience of outer expression of peace for humanity. And it starts with 12. They haven't been on top that they do believe in the possibility, you know? So there's a thing about people in my generation that we are expanding. Consciousness from a very scientific understanding of it that emerged in the latter part of the 20th century, your kids are growing up in a world where woo is much more ubiquitous than it was when I was a kid.
There was no Google except outside in the fringes where today it's just everywhere. Not only that, but. Harry Potter itself as a new mythology. That's the new mythology? Well, one of the star Wars, star Trek, Harry Potter, and Harry Potter water is the newest, the most modern, the most reason mythology. And what does it say?
It says we are magic and we can create anything we want by simply focusing our intentions in that direction. This gives me great. Hope for the future. And I believe in peace for humanity, but when I speak about it, I'm thinking generations ahead. And most people think we're going to see it or not see it in our lifetimes.
It's like, if you're, if you're working for peace that you want to see, you're doing the wrong work, you got to plant a tree. You're never going to sit under. Wow. All right. Let's talk about dream circles. What are dreams? Circles? Circles are gatherings of people. We share dreams at the community level.
They're rich and beautiful and fabulous. When I do a dream circle, it's a little bit different than, than what's considered a dream circle out of the tradition of what's called depth, psychology depth. Psychology is sort of modern. Youngian psychology. It's based in archetypes and mythologies and all of the things that are part of the collective consciousness.
I do dream circles a little differently because I have this gift of interpreting dreams. When I, which I'm doing a lot digitally now I do, I do two months right now, the circle gathered. Everybody brings a dream. I work one-on-one with each dreamer for about eight or so minutes. And I'm doing two things.
I'm interpreting their dream for them as an experience to have some insight based on what they're bringing, but the more important and much richer experiences, the collective dream, I call it like a Toro reading where each dream. That someone brings is like a card in the layout so that while I'm working, one-on-one I'm like, well, yeah, duh, this is about this and this and this and this and this.
And for the group, it fits into this sort of group interpretation that winds up being valuable for everybody gathered because that circle of consciousness is a one time. Big expression of, of souls gathered in by divine appointment. I'm once I started making sure that the order that dreams were shared in was random and universally connect that's when they started to cook with gas, it always happens that the story that's told by the gathering circle is driven by the order that God chooses.
The dreams are going to go. The thing that I love the most about doing dream circles is I think we've been doing this for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. What did we talk about around the fire before there was, you know, the real Housewives of the Serengeti? I never thought about it that way.
So level we have talked about 10,000 years ago, dream. Two things, the hunt and our dream and rises up from this. The idea of an afterlife rises up from this. A connectedness to spirit rises up from this. This is what I am imagine was happening 10 and 20,000 years ago. And when we did start to gather around the fire and communicate with each other, what will we talking about?
And what did it lead to? It led to some extraordinary development of a connection to something greater. And so I think that's happening when I get 10 people together in my zoom digital space, it may not be conscious, but I think unconsciously we're tapping into something fundamental that humans recognize as commonality and connection, because we share this intimate space inside of which we're all dreaming the same thing.
Wow. Wow. Do you feel Michael, now that people are dreaming more that they're home? Yeah, absolutely. I know this because it being chatted about out in social media land. So I put a gene circle announcement out, sold out in an hour. So I was like, I put another disc in my car, you know, another date and I set out a second email.
I was like, all right, I'm doing another one. It sold out in two hours. So I created it as a schedule. And it's now scheduled double months in advance. And the idea that this year is the year that because of shelter in place, people are turning within. People are dreaming more. Oh yeah. I know everybody who's listening right now wants to sign up because third, Wednesday, well, now we're going to turn to astrology.
Which is another one of your gifts. I know I've been very polyamorous. You are. I am, I Amaras. I love dreams. And I love astrology. We talked about how you were really in many ways, gifted with the interpretation of dreams. We didn't really talk about astrology and how that came into your life. So let's just start there for a second.
Let me first say this. Astrology is interpreting symbols, planets signs, houses, and angles. They each have a different meaning. So one of the reasons why I'm good astrologer, isn't like, I'm so fricking brilliant with astrology it's that I know all of the meanings and that facile fast mind. Doesn't have to wait to think about what I'm going to interpret and say, I just start talking and there it is.
It's. Channeling part of it. It is a challenging experience. I don't talk about it in that way, but I feel it as that. And in fact, I can go into a spin of channeling when I'm working, where it's like, Oh, wow, just generally where the hands start to fly around and eyes closed a little bit. So that's important.
I think for people to understand that that's what astrology really is, is just the archetypical interpretation of astronomy. Similar to dream interpretation, which was something I simply discovered I could do. Astrology was a little bit the same way for me. I was about 25 and I was gifted in astrology reading with Rocky gardener, this Frogger from the LA weekly.
At the time, she would make a copy of the chart for the client. Which you had to do by hand back then, you know, it wasn't like a computer. He had to sit with a book and say, Oh, there's. So I'm sitting here with the chart while she's giving you the reading. So I have a visual to look at now when I was a kid, my mother was a feminist.
And so as a result of being a feminist and a member of the national organization of women, I knew that circle with the cross below, it was the sign for feminine. Turns out it's also the glyph for the planet. Venus. I also knew that the circle with the arrow sticking up out of it was the sign for masculine.
This. I learned as a kid because of my mother turns out that's this, the glyph from ours. So Rocky's like talking about stuff about Venus and Mars and other planets, and I'm looking and I'm like, Oh, there it is. Oh, I get it. I was just getting it. It was like, I was remembering something. Yeah. And so that was, you know, 1987.
Put it aside, cut to the nineties, I guess internet happened and astrology.com. Happened. And I started looking at the back ends of any sort of astrology material that I could find. And Kelly Fox, who was the astrologer who started astrology.com, started a astrology one Oh one section and I ate it up and anything she had in it, I ate up and then I connected to the astrologer that I had met a little bit later.
70 is Aria. Astrologer who's out. There was my sort of first teacher. So in those years I became so obsessed that I just spent every free moment studying reading the internet was expanding and people were putting material out there. And then I found Stephanie and I had some private lessons with her and I took some classes with her and she did a daily thing that I do myself now that I read for years.
I'm not quite sure how it happened, but there just became a moment when it just exploded loaded, open for me. And I just crossed the threshold into being able to hold space with a person in their chart. And that was about 20, 25 years ago. When I went to get by doctorate in psychology. I just knew I didn't want to be a psychotherapist.
Certainly not a full-time one. Suddenly I had this. Way of holding space with people and a little bit of ballsiness started doing it and found that something happened that made people feel like they were having a valuable experience. I suspect that the level of which I was operating 25 and 20 to 25 years ago was very paltry, but I did no harm.
And I must've had some coming through me that was helpful and value, you know, half of what happens in a session is the wisdom, the intuition that comes through and that doesn't need astrology to astrology meetings is like the bread and butter of my business and how I work. And I love astrology. Well watching you give Robyn a reading.
Robyn was, she shared with me. I did fantastic. You and action is first of all, so fun to watch, but it was so clear that you could, you were following the points of the chart, the minute you and Robyn connected, you were getting so much more information than that you were given to her. That was so on target.
So you were taking the information, but you are clearly. Utilizing her and being sort of with her to pull that in and really bring it to life for her. Well, I mean, I know for me, I was in shock that you were able to pinpoint this specific day and I'm going to have, it's a 10 minute piece that I'm going to have up on YouTube for anyone who wants to see it.
What was incredible. It was. Part of within this two year period for me, where I really changed my life. And so when I talked to you in 2019, I had already started making those changes. And right when we got on the zoom call, you said, what happened in this year? And then what happened in this month? And I was so freaked out because you had no clue how, I mean, you would have no idea.
I knew the day for me, that was most transformative in 2018 was a reading with my friend, Lisa, who's a spiritual medium, and she helped eliminate things that I'd already. Started happening and then definitely it was illuminating what would be happening? And you written, you looked at that date and you were able to circle, like you were supposed to talk to a medium that day and you know, you're, you are intuitive to like, it was all this stuff and you were able to actually show it.
Yeah. And I think the validation that comes along with that gives me personally, and then I can, can give others the motivation, right. That we are on this path. They're all the question. Yeah. Making no mistakes. I can't tell you how often when I say something like, Oh my God, God, this is a shit show moment for you and people go, Oh, thank God.
Because people think it's their fault. They think they're doing something wrong. It's like, no, you're just in the trough. You're not at a peak. You're in this. You're in some work. You're in some lessons, you're in some astrology. The precision is crazy. Like, I just love being able to say bam. And then someone says, yes, then it triggers the conversation.
It's not about me being magic. I don't, you know, have the answer necessarily. But once we lock in to something important, my intuition takes over and the forthcoming this, so the client takes over. It's not me. It's us is clear. That was clear and anyone who watches that just even that specific piece can see that.
And it's one of the experiences that I highlight from in my life in this, in this two year period. So thank you. And which leads us also to one of my daily spiritual resources is your Astro alerts. Yeah. People listening or watching. They're not horoscopes. Yeah. They're not to score. So eerily accurate.
Yeah. Well, because it's real astrology. First of all, let me say this about horoscopes. Horoscopes are nonsense. They came about because princess Margaret was born last century and an astrologer wrote a prediction based on her chart about her childhood interference was turns out to be. Her uncle abdicated the throne and it was accurate.
And suddenly the tabloids were like, Oh my God, we got to do something about astrology. And some astrologer would have come around and said, well, you know, no, the sun sign is something that's calendar based, which means we can actually alert people to what their sun sign is based on their birth date. And so now.
The world starts learning about sun sign astrology between like 1935 and 1950. Cause every newspaper in the world by 1950 had an astrology column with the birth sign and months associated with those signs that makes the world think that sun sign is. Everything in astrology, but it's not. It's one of the least interesting planets in the chart.
And I will spend very little time on chances that hit the sun in a session because it's just not that interesting. Now synchronicity is one of the most powerful forces that consciousness has. The, the simultaneous rising up of unrelated experiences that seem powerfully related because of their simultaneity.
You get a horoscope, you read it. It resonates. That is synchronicity. That is not astrology at all. And this other thing about Scorpios or Capricorns, when did it become a noun? Like if I say Scorpio, I'm thinking about the archetype of death. And rebirth and change and transformation, not Marcy. Who's a bitch and not Frank who is secretive and awful.
So the daily Astro alerts are powerful because they're describing the actual energy of the day involving all of the planets, including the sun, but it's not guided or directed towards you and you and you, and you I've had people cancel because they thought they were getting a horoscope. It's like, it's not possible.
First of all, if Pluto is out there doing something heavy, And the horoscope writer says, well, this is going to be good for Virgos and Tauruses because Pluto's in Capricorn an earth sign. That might be true if their son is placed anywhere near where Pluto is. But it's like, if you're a Virgo born in the first half, the political thing, isn't touching you at all.
So. Completely irrelevant. And what is Pluto is squaring moon, your emotional center and your unconscious architecture. And you're wildly depressed because of that. And you read the horoscope, it's like, you're a Virgo, you're going to have a plan. And it's like, Oh, I don't feel like that. Why? Because it's not accurate.
So what I'm writing about is the detailed explanation of what the planets are doing. Day to day. And when retrogrades are present, I'll say go back to August 2nd and look at, you know, September 3rd, cause it'll relate and people like, wow, this is accurate. Now it takes a while. Learn how to read them. Yes, very, very dense.
But I'm a teacher at heart I'd heart. That's what I call myself. So I write to teach, keep reading within a couple of months, you will know what I'm talking about, and I love it. I love doing it. I love it. I'm so grateful that you do them some days. I read them at the beginning of my day, at the end of the day, sometimes at the end of the day.
And there's just. So much truth in them. And I think it goes back to even what you're talking about with the dream circles, because I think what you, what you're, you're able to have the collective collective and you are channeling. I mean, in addition to the real astrology that. What I write is a channel.
Like I read old Astro alerts and I have no connection to the words I do not read what I wrote. I will research can't believe I'm going to say this out loud. I have read lots of shit that I have written and said, wow, ah, I get it. I'm just, I mean, I don't feel ownership. A funny thing that happens a lot in the dailies when certain energies are present that.
Claus me to say, warning warning day, watch your mouth. I cannot tell you how many emails, direct messages and responses on Instagram that I've had is like, thank God you said that if nothing else get the daily Astra alerts to know whether you shut your mouth. I was just going to ask you, like, how does astrology influence your day to day changed a lot over the years?
One of the things that is true about like, This body is that it is wildly animated, which you've probably figured out by now. Thank God, because I came up with some shame about how big this energy is. Right? How many times was I told quiet you're too loud, not too loud, just loud. So because of this wild, energetic sensitivity, I have, I grew up with a feeling sensation that I was.
Always sick. Like that was a narrative I had, my father was always sick. He had syndromes, he died at 62 with all kinds of bone softenings and no villain. I mean, he was, so I had this like, Oh, I feel sick all the time. And dad was sick all the time. I'm sick all the time. It was a real struggle until I discovered astrology.
And then I began to see, Oh, I feel this way when the energy is intense on my chart and the moment the energy of intensity drops away, I feel differently. I'm not sick all the time. I just highly sensitive to energy. What I began to recognize is that we all know you're not all sensitive. Like I am, you're not all going to feel it physically, but what I'm experiencing as, Oh, I'm sick all the time.
That's universal being meaning. People make shit up about what they're experiencing from their trauma, from their fears, from their, what they were told from their dog mama. Right. And astrology allows a universal sensibility that, Oh, the stories I'm making up are just my mind talking to me. My buddy knows what's true.
And my body is just responding to this big energy and then it'll pass. I used to want to like predict with astrology, but I remember what I was, I had to this TV show thing that happened in my life. And that it's a, it's a long, frustrating process. And part of what goes on when you're in such a process is you're like desperate for the phone to ring right.
For months. Like when's the Greenlight call gonna come. And so one Friday afternoon there was a transit on my chart that was about communication and career. And I was like, the call is going to come on Friday. That call is going to come on Friday. The call is going to print. I'm like waiting and waiting and waiting Friday comes the call.
Doesn't come. But my neighbor knocks on my back door and she says, I want a date with this guy. And he, I told him about your TV show. He's really excited to meet you. Could you come out and meet him and talk about the television show communication about my career. That was a seminal moment for me. I was like, Oh, the value is not to chase the prediction.
The value is to know how to be with the energy that's coming. That evolved over time to now I got to say, I don't look at my chart much. But I know when I need to, that's really key. That's helpful for people. I like that. Not chasing it. Yeah. You and I are the same, Michael. I didn't have a lot of this as a young person either.
There weren't a lot of resources out there for, for those of us who were super interested in it, but now there are so many out there. It's everywhere. Pluto. The destruction planet has been in Capricorn since 2007 and eight, by the way, that's when the markets fell clue to the planet of death, moved into the sign that invented markets.
And they felt that was an astrologist wet dream. So Pluto we'll move into Aquarius in a couple of years and spend about a decade and a half to two decades. And Aquarius. What I believe about the next couple of decades is Pluto and Capricorn is helping create enormous numbers of movements. Look at it.
Look what happened this year. Oh, my God. We could not have had all of the movements that are rising up with all of the destruction that created them, but they're separate, they're segregated. We've got this movement and that movement and that movement and that movement Aquarius is the energy that created one unified.
Consciousness one world, the new world. So when Pluto moves into Aquarius for the sort of 15 years, that starts in about three or four years from now, I think we're going to start to see a coalescing of movements, become a movement, a humanistic movement towards care for all. I agree. I really believe that.
I hope so. I believe it too. Well, look at this year, this year has been a shit show and yet. So many marvelous things are rising up out of that. So remember that definitely it doesn't come without the destruction. And if you think it's gonna, or you want it to stay asleep because it ain't going to be that way.
But those of us who are operating in that world, we will take that energy of Pluto and Aquarius, and we will make peace with it while the world is also. Falling apart into destruction, both have to happen. You can't have one without the other, and I'm going to focus on the people. Definitely. And you think about that individually on our individual journeys.
And if you look at someone's birth chart, you can see where the destruction individually. Happens to happen. You have to have the destruction in order to have the breakthrough. Right. And so that's where we are collectively. We're just seeing that in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you.
So much, but the energy that you bring to this, Michael is so great. It's, it's totally somebody who is tuned in, or the Abraham says tuned in tapped, in, turned on to their purpose. And we just feel that. And it's just so great to be able to share that with people so that they can see someone who's had this sort of seeker journey and has just embraced who they are and the gift that you give.
It's a light, it's totally a light that you're sharing with us. So thank you so much. I moved. To hear that and I receive it completely. Good. I look forward to talking again. Yes. Any time. Thank you so much fun guys. I can't wait to share it with everyone. All right, let's talk to you soon. Okay. All right. You can find out more about readings after rollers classes and Michael's firstname.lastname@example.org.
You can also follow him on Instagram at Dr. Lennox dreams. .