When we last talked to Vanessa Lynn, Ph.D, she introduced us to her daughter L, the warrior soul that came into this world with a knowing that she was here with a painful mission ahead. She trusted Vanessa to be her guide and person while here on Earth, but she never felt at home here.
At a very young age L was giving her mom cues. By the age of 4 she was expressing her experiences with the supernatural, and shortly after started to capture it with words and poetry that were well beyond her years.
At 12 years old she was diagnosed with the most painful condition known to humans, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, which feels like you are being burned alive 24/7.
Over the course of the next 3 years, as the condition worsened and other conditions were realized, she battled and battled and battled. And she documented all of it. She wanted her story to be told and her pain to be realized.
With an understanding of what was going on with her body, but with no cure in sight and pain that wouldn’t relent...L took her own life on July 22, 2018.
Vanessa captures this story of facing unimaginable pain, loving unconditionally, the power of words -- and life after death in her just published book Ravens and Rainbows. It is her journey and it is L’s journey.
The book is broken up into three distinct parts. Before. During. And After. Each part is critical to the journey. In the first conversation with Vanessa, you heard about the Before and the During.
Today we’ll be talking about the After. L continues to be a force -- just from the other side, in a different realm and where she considers her home. Her energy can be felt each and every day. The experiences that have happened since her passing and that continue to happen will both astonish you and help you see that you can have a relationship that transcends this Earth.
Through this conversation, the hope is that you can start to recognize the signs in your own life and can begin to have a relationship with a deceased loved one or the Universe itself. The signs are all around you.
The absolutely fierce and brilliant Vanessa Lynn is back, and you’ll meet Amy Eisenberg and Spiritual Medium Lisa Nitzkin. Plus, host and intuitive, Robyn Miller Brecker -- all important parts of the After.
It’s no surprise that L joins the episode as well — from the other side. She has an important message and wants to help you.
Send your signs from L to [email protected] or post to on Instagram and Facebook and tag @seekingwithrobyn
Ravens and Rainbows: Visit http://www.ravensandrainbows.com to buy the book and to read more poetry by L. Grey. All proceeds will go to the Burning Limb Foundation.
Burning Limb Foundation
Human Rights Campaign
L’s podcast, “Not Your Inspiration” (14 episodes)
Have you ever wondered about life's biggest questions? Like, why am I here? What happens when we die? Or what else is out there, but we have, and we love to talk about it. And if you're listening, we think you probably do too. I'm Robyn and I'm Karen and we've spent our lives searching for those answers.
And we're seekers, just like you talking to some of the most fascinating spiritual teachers, healers and scientists. And showing you how you can use some of their spiritual practices for yourself. Also be sharing stories of other seekers. They motivate you to live your fullest and we'll be translating it all.
So the spiritual stuff won't feel so out there. So if you're curious, get ready to rediscover why we're here together.
when we last talked to Vanessa, she introduced us to her daughter out the warrior soul that came into this world within knowing that she was here with a painful mission ahead. She trusted Vanessa to be her guide and person while here on earth, but she never felt at home here by the age of four, she was expressing her experiences with the supernatural and shortly after started to capture it with words and poetry that were well beyond her years.
At 12 years old, she was diagnosed with the most painful condition, known to humans, complex regional pain syndrome, which feels like you're being burned alive 24 seven over the course of the next three years, as the addition worsen, she battled and battled and battled, and she documented all of it. She wanted her story to be told and her pain to be realized with an understanding of what was going on with her body, but with no cure in sight and pain that wouldn't relent.
L took her own life on July 22nd, 2018. Vanessa captures this story of facing unimaginable pain, loving unconditionally the power of words and life after death and her just published book Ravens and rainbows. It is her journey and it is L's journey. The book is broken up into three distinct parts before, during and after each part is critical to the journey.
And the first conversation with Vanessa. You heard about the before and the during today, we'll be talking about the after L continues to be a force just from the other side in a different realm and where she considers it, her home, the experiences that have happened since her passing and that continued to happen will both astonish you and help you see that you can have a relationship that transcends this earth.
We have the absolutely fierce and brilliant Vanessa Lynn back, and you'll meet Amy Eisenberg and spiritual medium Lisa knit skin. And you know, me, we're all important parts of the, after we call ourselves the original spirit squad, we had actually named ourselves that soon after L passed away. I love that name so much that I've used it to describe the seeking with Robyn spirit squad as well, which Lisa is a part of surely L will be here as well as she was before and always is.
Hi, thank you so much for taking the time to do this and to continue to let L into your world. I feel like there's a lot of people who've already been so touched by your story and her story. So now kind of like watch and, and be with L as I'm saying. Seeing her life's purpose come to fruition is just it's indescribable and we're so grateful to be a part of it.
And I would love to start with you and Amy, can you tell everybody how you guys know each other and what was your relationship prior to L's passing Vanessa and I, we knew each other actually growing up from high school. Can you just fill us all in really quickly on something that everyone should know about Vanessa from high school valedictorian.
Sorry. And she was again, duly note that thank you for sharing. Anyway. So during the preschool years, She, and I reconnected along that path when she and I started developing a friendship, I had lost my grandfather, who was someone very close to me. And I think randomly once on a walk mentioned to her, I started getting into spirituality and she said, my daughter at a young age, Seeing her great grandmother and describing her in great detail.
And I was so shocked by this, but it felt like such a validation for me at that point in my spiritual journey, I kept thinking, how would a three year old make this up? So obviously for me, it was like an aha moment of this does exist. Like how I'm feeling. I just read a book that someone recommended to me after my grandfather passed, called many lives, many masters.
So I was really curious and that began my journey spiritually. And so over the course of a year, We would meet for a walk for coffee, always stayed in touch. And then obviously when things weren't going well with Elle, we talked about it along the course of her journey, and then one happened and on the day that Elle passed away.
So it's actually very bizarre with the day that L passed away. I was actually talking about her, my family lives near Vanessa and I was in the kitchen talking to my sister-in-law about L and using that same story. I repeated that story. I never used L's name, but I repeated the story up. I had a friend who was a child who was three, and she was able to identify, talk about her great grandmother, who she is.
I never met, you know, people question the spirituality and is it real? And are you making it up? And I was like, I don't know how she made it up. And so it was always my validation. And I used it in a story day and I went to dinner down the road and got a call from my sister-in-law at that moment, saying there are ambulances and fire trucks at your friend's house that you were just talking about.
Oh man, they're all over my body. I was of course, freaking out and I reached out to Vanessa immediately. I didn't know exactly what had happened, but I knew something terrible had happened. I don't know. That's I think came to your house the following day. I remember July 22nd. The day that L passed, obviously.
Massive family showed up at my house and I was glad that they were, are there for each other. And I write about this in the book, but I, you know, all I had space for was to be with jazz and to be without. And the next morning I remember Amy, you texted me and you said, I'm coming over to give you a hug.
And I had been up in my room and I stood at the top of my staircase. And I saw you like this angel standing at the bottom of my staircase, my front door is glass. And so the sun was like a hind your head, like this halo. I'm not kidding. And I came downstairs and we gave each other this hug and we were crying together and it sounds like, okay, well, yeah, your friend came over and gave you a hug, but it was such a connected moment.
And. The week that she died the week as we were leading up to her Memorial service, there were a million decisions that had to be made. There were a million people coming in and out of the house. I really didn't want to talk to any of them. And Amy was the one who just was on my wavelength. She made a bearable and she made the unbearable.
I'm going to cry. She made the sprung into action planning, you know, just doing all the things that, that I didn't have the space for, without me asking, she just. Did it, but more than that, it was this incredible energy. And I think about kind of this, this coming full circle and Amy, you and I have talked, talked about this aisle at such a young age, leading yeah.
To her own understanding of spirituality and then bringing Amy into my life. I mean, I who'd been in my life, but bringing her into my life in this way. Profound way at that moment in time when I so deeply needed her. And you know, now I can write, look back with this clarity of how Ella orchestrated that all along and really, I believe handpicked Amy, as we've talked about, L was slow to trust.
There's a handful of people, even now she chooses the people she trusts. And she handpicked all of you and handpicked Amy 15 years ago, knowing that this was all going to come full circle. And I have no doubt about that. I agree. I know most people listening or watching don't know Amy, but this is Amy Strong suit is getting shit done.
Yeah. In addition to having this tremendous heart, so much compassion and really being tuned to, and from a spiritual perspective, she is that person who's going to get all that done when you can't do it. Yeah. She had a couple of other friends that were there too, and I just sat at the dining room table and.
We were like, what what's happening here. We have to figure this all out. And we did, and we'd everyone figured it out together. And I do think with Ella, when she was little, we connected with one another in some way along the course of that time. You guys talk about what happened? I think it was the night of the actual funeral.
So I'm standing with Vanessa and I'm hugging her. To say goodbye, and I'm telling her, I'll come back whenever you need whatever you need. I was heading in mine. I'm back in the light too, because when my grandfather passed away, someone told me this story about dimes. And they said, you're going to get dimes at random places.
And I'm like, well, it sounded so ridiculous to me, but sure enough, after that point in the most bizarre times, I would get dimes just one time. And that was it. So every time someone then passed away, I kind of shared that it helped me so much. It was like when I found a dime, I thought, Oh, he's with me, he's watching over me.
I got into a car accident and I'm the passenger side seat. After the airbags deployed, there was one that kept happening. I thought, I'm just going to say, I say, don't listen, I'm you think I'm crazy? And she did. She lets me crazy a little bit. And I said, I just said that, tell you this. I feel like she's going to send you dimes, just keep an eye out for it.
What happened late that night? It was probably midnight by the time the house had cleared out and Jaz was asleep in her own room. And my sister and I were in L's room, just sitting on her bed and I look over onto her I'd stand where all of her supplements and various medications had been. And I look over and there was a pill cutter on her nightstand.
And remember she had not. Left the house in month. And under this pill cutter was one dime and I started it laughing and crying. And my sister is sitting next to me, like what is happening right now? And I take a picture and I text it to Amy at midnight, and it began so many signs that L gives me, but the dimes being one of them they'll come in waves and then time will go by and I won't get them.
And I'll. Ask and they show up the day of her. Four of us had been together that day. And that evening I had dinner with a friend of mine who was part of the group that worked with Amy and planning everything for L's Memorial. She and I went out to dinner and we go to this restaurant and I never pay cash for anything.
I always just use a credit card and we sit down and the waitress says, By the way our credit card machine is broken. So hope you have cash. So we eat and the bill comes and I put cash in the billfold and she comes back with change and she drops the bill called off on the table and she says, Oh, by the way, there's two dimes in there waiting for you.
And that was kind of the face I made. And I said, of course, there are just out of curiosity, what made you say that? And she said, well, you know, sometimes people don't realize there's change and it falls out and then she repeat herself. She goes, So just want you to know that there's two times waiting for you and I opened it up and sure enough, there's nothing else in the billfold, two dogs, that's it.
I know it's crazy. I always say too, in this day and age, the who's chain, you are really carrying change. It's not like even, you know, 10 years ago or 15 years ago, it just isn't and it's not a pile of change. It's one dime. So it's like to get one dime place somewhere. We had all gotten together again. I don't know if it was right before, right after the anniversary of her passing, we had all been hanging out in my backyard and I made a comment like I don't get done.
You guys left? I go upstairs and I'm in my daughter's. Bedroom and right on the top of her dresser was one dime. I didn't know that. I love that. Oh my God. And I freaked out. I got, where did this come from?
Couldn't tell me what's amazing. Is like I find when I ask for something he answers. Yes. Speaking of that, let's talk about some of the other signs. That you received from L obviously I see rainbows everywhere. I mean, you know, sometimes big, beautiful ones in the sky, but yeah, my refrigerator is stainless steel and there's like a wave or something in the stainless steel that I had never noticed before, but will reflect the light from outside.
If I stand in a certain spot, it's always there. So she has found a way to show me a rainbow every single day. I see huge blackbirds and Ravens everywhere. but she's really also shown up for me in music, music that, you know, clearly was connected to her life. You know, as I wrote about in the book songs, That were playing when she was born and lullabies that I would sing to her and songs that would be jokes between the two of us or things from her childhood, but probably what's happened most since her passing kind of, and this is what amazes me and that I hope people really take to heart in terms of their own lives and their own loved ones who may have passed is that the things she shows me are not just things from the past, but they're current.
And that's been remarkable to me. You know, it's one thing, if something sparks a memory and it's another thing when I feel that our relationship is evolving and growing and current, and that there's new jokes that we can have with each other or new songs or new connections, right. Not just old ones. But new ones and that's been extraordinary for me.
So a couple of examples, and I mentioned this in the book, but I'll share it in more detail shortly after Eldad I was talking with my sister and she said, you know, did L like Tom petty? I was like, I don't know. You know, maybe. And of course, by the way, as an aside, in retrospect, I have like a $4 Tom petty tee shirt that I wear as a beach coverup.
And there's pictures of me and L from 2016, 2017, where I'm wearing this shirt. My sister said, well, I love him. And I have this feeling that they're just rocking out together and he's teaching her how to play guitar. And they're just rocking. It was very shortly after her passing. And it was like one of those moments, you know, a quick moment of a smile and lightness, like at this image of the two of them rocking out together.
And the next day was the first time that jazz and I had gone back to SoulCycle, which was where we had been the day that she passed. And we go into the studio. And if any of you have been there, they're usually playing like heavy beat, like techno hip hop, right? Like things that you would want to exercise too.
And so we, we go into the studio and it's the same instructor that we've been with the day that she passed. And he said, all right, I'm going to change things up a little bit. And he plays a live version of the Tom petty song called the waiting is the hardest part and jazz. And I like. Look at each other.
It was just this like beautiful, emotional thing. And I went up to him afterwards and introduced myself cause he didn't know me at all and shared a little bit of our story and he's crying and I'm crying. And I just told him how he brought her energy so close without even realizing it. And since that day that was September of 2018.
So it's been almost two years since that day. And I say this without exaggeration day, that goes by that my sister. Yeah. Or I usually both of us don't hear a Tom petty song. It doesn't matter where I am. I could be in my car. I could be in an airport. I could be in a restaurant. It doesn't matter. There is not a single day that goes by in two years.
That I've not heard of Tom petty song. And we know we've been with you better, like a sushi restaurant, the place where you would hear that kind of music. I think the other part is that the words of the Tom petty song, they're so relevant to your story, to L''s story. Pain to how she may be feeling now.
Absolutely. I mean, it's, and I was never one to listen to lyrics ever. And I will say the other thing that she does is she will, and I've told you some of this she'll send me random songs, so yeah. I'm sure like many of you, you have your list of. Satisfy signs that you've downloaded. And every once in a while, yeah.
Maybe it'll like play like, Oh, you were just listening to Tom petty. You might enjoy so-and-so right. You know, I walk and I'll be walking and I'll be listening to my downloaded Spotify playlist of L songs and a random song that I've never heard of or never downloaded will come on. And it always has extraordinary.
Meaning. And then other times where she's clearly just joking, like there was a day, a couple months ago, I'm walking and all of a sudden the old ZZ top song she's got legs comes on, she's got legs. She knows how to use them. It's not related, not no offense to ZZ top, but it's not related to music that I would normally be listening to.
She still jokes with me. And that's what I mean when I say. Current, it's not just something of the past. And my hope is people listening to this can see that in their own lives. Yeah. And that's the idea of showcasing to people that it's a relationship, right? It's not just on liens. The signs are amazing, but it's bigger than that.
It really is a relationship. It's an ongoing dialogue. So let's talk about. Meeting Lisa, because it's very hard to get a reading, Lisa. So for those of you that are just now watching us, I am a spiritual medium. I see clients and connect them with their deceased loved ones. And so my job hopefully is to connect all these individuals to their loved ones and let them know that that relationship does not end.
I've been doing this work for a long time. And Amy and I met. A long time ago. And we had our own experience with a connection and a reading, and we kept in touch over the years. Amy was one of the people that had contacted me when I'll pass. And this does happen a lot where people will contact me and say, you have to see this person because they lost their spouse.
Or they lost a lot of very significant loved one or a child. And I'm very clear that. I want to make sure the person is actually ready. There's this rawness that happens right after her passing. So I'm very strict about making sure that I don't really see anybody who's lost a significant loved one, unless it's at least been a year.
And after El Paso, I had heard so many stories about Vanessa and that has to, and there were several people who tried to get me to break my rule. And I was pretty adamant that I wasn't going to and not to hurt her or not shit, but I just, in my heart felt it wouldn't be the right time. And I distinctly remember talking to Amy and she was one of the last people who really pushed.
I forget. I was like, there's something about L that you just, you have to connect with her and you need to see Vanessa. And because I trust Amy, I will see her. So we ended up making an appointment. I had already signed up for Lisa's class. Cause this has been like part of my journey. I was so curious and you know what?
We never talked about this, but Amy and I was supposed to take the class that you end up taking and you don't get to that. But we were supposed to take that together earlier that day. Yes. The class that you're talking about is my intuition mediumship mentoring program, which is where I help individuals actually find their ability and their knowing and their truth to connect to their higher selves and to connect.
Yes. And I remember that Amy and I were supposed to take that together. Something happened where you had to postpone. And not take the class at that time, but now that we all think about it, so on purpose. So then tell everyone what happened, forgot about that rabbit. Right? And then you and I, along the entire time in which we've had our relationship always talked about spirituality.
You. And I, we kind of like went down this path together. We were in each other's soul sisters before we all became the spirits. But yes. So then I said, I were on a walk and I said, listen, I signed up for this class. You have to have a reading. I think I mentioned Lisa to you on the way out when I was telling you about the dimes to just saying like, do you know Lisa?
And you're like, I don't know what you're talking about. And then we were walking. I said, I'm signed up for this class. If nothing else, maybe she'll let you you'll come to the class. And like, let's see what happens. So you came with the NASA then after she signed out for the reading, then I had looked at my schedule and realized she had also signed up for my class, starting that following Monday, then that's great with dates.
So will you please talk about the timeline of this? Talk about the timeline. First of all, let me just say, Amy is the great connector. Amy is the one who connected me to Lisa and to Robyn. And like the reason why this original spirit squad was created was. Because of Amy bringing us all together that just tested.
So Amy was one of the many voices back in August and September of 2018 saying, Lisa, you need to see this person, Vanessa. And finally we sort relented. And we had a date scheduled for October 1st, which was a Monday. That was our private reading date, the Wednesday prior. So five days before on September 26th, Amy and I were walking on the beach and she said, I know you reading, coming up and I'm signed up for this class.
And I really think you need to come. Like, I, I think you can't wait five days. I think you need to, an Amy can be very emphatic. she's like, you know, just, you can't wait until Monday, October 1st you have to come to this class that is tomorrow, Thursday, and I was on the verge of going back to work. And I'm like, you know, I don't know if I can commit to a five week class.
And, and I remember Amy's. Come to the first class, the worst that happens is you don't come back and you actually texted Lisa while we were walking to make sure that it would be okay and you guys are texting and apparently Lisa, you said, yes, it's fine. She can come to the first class. Okay. And NASA walks in and I felt like I had known her forever.
And we started the class. This is where I think again, Vanessa is much better at telling this story. I think there were seven of us in the class. And Lisa, you began by just explaining, you know, kind of what this class was about in terms of helping us get more. Comfortable with our own intuitive abilities.
And you started sharing the story of your own mom and her passing when you were seven years old and how she's always shown up for you in rainbows and that every major event, birthday, holiday, whatever it is, your mom always shows up in rainbows. And I just kind of stored that information, you know, in the back of my head, obviously I'll was very clear with me that she would be in every rainbow, but I didn't want to say anything because I knew we had this reading coming up in a couple of days and I didn't want to bias anything.
You finished sharing your story and the other women in the class. Did a quick introduction of who they were and what brought them here and what they were hoping to get out of it. And, and around a circle. And I happened to be last. I really didn't want to say much about L because, like I said, I knew we had this reading.
All I said was my daughter passed away and Amy has just been this amazing friend and really thought that it would be good for me to be here. And I really started talking about my relationship with Amy, more so than my relationship with L. And as I'm talking, Lisa, you stood up and you started apologizing.
You're like, I'm so sorry. I don't mean to be rude, but I have to interrupt you because your daughter is yelling so loudly in my ear right now. And she's saying, give my mom the necklace, give my mom the necklace and you walked over to me. I can like picture it, like in slow motion. You walked over to me.
And while you're walking, you're putting your hands behind your neck to unfasten and necklace. And you take this necklace, which I know I can't see on the camera, but it's the little gold and crystal rainbow and you place it on my neck. And you said, I don't know what this is. But your daughter is insisting that I give you this necklace and she's saying, tell my mom I'm okay.
Tell my mom I'm okay. She has to have this necklace. And I want to just add to that, the power of that, because I am very good with boundaries. And so when I heard that, so profoundly, it almost felt like an audible voice coming to me because that doesn't often happen that way so loud. And I'll never forget that.
I mean, it's one of the more extraordinary moments of my life, truthfully of absolute knowing that she was Anne is here with me and still taking care of me, which I am still conflicted about because I'm the mom and I'm supposed to take care of her and doing it in an extraordinary way. Well, and then you had the reading and then I had the reading.
Talk about that, but you it's like, this was like your preview. Yeah. Three or four days later. Like that Monday I came back for this reading and we sat in Lisa's living room for three hours. They don't often experience such powerful energy as I did with L so much so that I feel like I knew her. I know, I do know her, but I, like, I knew her.
I could see her. I knew exactly what she looked like. I could hear her voice. It was so strong and so profound for me as well. Even with my own mother, I don't hear her as strongly as I hear out every time Vanessa and I get together, president is so huge. And knowing Lisa, I know how unusual that is. So Vanessa, what did you get from that initial reading?
I got to spend time with my daughter. Yes, you did. Where she was free of pain. And I've said this to Lisa so many times I can't ever give to her what she's given to me. And I know it's not a one for one, but that's what I got. I got to spend three hours with my dog. It was such a mutual exchange of energy for the both of us.
So the connection not only became so strong with LNI. It also then became so strong with Nessa. And this original spirit of God is one of my very best friendships ever. And L made that happen. Don't you think it's like, as we all talked to remind everyone how I met Vanessa, I met Vanessa at Amy's daughter's bat mitzvah.
After Amy kept saying to me, you have to meet my friend, Vanessa and I walked in the service was about to start. She introduced us, even though we kind of met before, it was the first time we really, really met. And it was like, I found another soul sister and what all of this to me and everything we were saying with each other, it's like this unlocking of a part of it, our story.
That's what we all have. Experienced together and throughout it's a feat feeling that I like to always call the WTF moment. Yeah. Can't really explain it, but you know it, and you don't have many of them in your life. First time we all met one another individually, we could talk for hours and it didn't, it didn't, it was like, Oh, you're my family.
And that, yes, I may only know you for a minute, but I know we're supposed to know each other. This group truly, you are. A huge force that has gotten me through this past two years. And the fact that Amy is the only one who I knew before and who knew L in the flesh. And yet here we are. And that two of the three of you didn't get to know her in life.
It is just unbelievable. It really is. And I was just telling you guys before we started even last night, my husband and I are watching a show and it's a show about survival outside. It's the show called alone on this. Street channel and out of nowhere, as I was thinking about today and I was preparing for our taping, it was on my mind, but I ha we had that on.
Well, there was a contestant on the show. He starts repeating the poem, the Raven by Edgar Allen Poe that pops on I, Jeff was like, Robyn, it's the Raman. He said it too. And I was like, I know. So I took a picture of the screen because I had to tell you all and show you today because I knew it was L and then she, and then she was like, yep, I'm here.
I'm with you. I know we were thinking about it and I'm going to be with you tomorrow. And even last week, I had a reading with Lisa and yes, my dad was very much the force within that reading. But she was right next to him. So just to think about how that threads through all of our relationships, it's extraordinary actually about this.
Now you had the one I know you're wearing two necklaces right now. And so can you talk about the second necklace? Because it's a story that I think people should hear. So this necklace, the rainbow that Lisa gave me maybe a week or two, after she gave it to me, I was walking and I, the class break, like I felt it kind of slip and I grabbed it and I put it in my pocket and I finished walking when I made a mental note to bring it into jewelry store.
And so later that afternoon I was driving by and there's a strip mall near my house. And I thought I had remembered seeing a jewelry store there, but I wasn't sure I had never been in it. And I was going to the bank and this strip mall and I drove by and sure enough, there was this store. So I thought, okay, well, you know, I'll pop in.
And so I walked in and asked them if they could just fix the clasp. And so they took it, you know, in the back room to do what they needed to do. And I was just window shopping, you know, looking at the diamonds and jewelry, whatever, while they were doing that. And I saw in the display case. A necklace with ELLs full name, just in the display case in black diamonds.
And I asked the store owner, I said, can you tell me about this necklace? Did you make it for someone? And she said, no. She said, you know, I had been wanting to do a name for a long time and I never had, and finally, over the summer I decided to do a name and this name just came to me. I don't know why, but this name just came to me.
And at first I did it in white diamonds, but that didn't feel right. And then I did it in black diamonds and it felt right. And I just wanted to do this name and it was. This necklace, which again, I know you can't see on, on camera, but it's her full name in black diamonds that was just sitting there waiting for me.
And so of course I told her the story about L and you know, she's crying and I'm crying and we're hugging at this point. And this was a couple of weeks before my birthday. And I said, I think, I think that's my birthday present. And she was so kind, she said, I don't even want you to look at the price. I'm just going to give it to you, like at cost, like the cost of materials and that's it, black diamonds, but just her, like, that's so hard.
She was like a black diamonds or bust kind of girl, all the synchronicities that lead up to this very day. You know, most people are just not, I think what we hope is that people, this helps people be open to these signs and where they can lead you and they can come in all forms. I think most people don't realize that.
I have to tell you, I don't think I shared this with any of you. Cause I don't think we've had a chance to talk since this happened. But when I talk about how current our relationship is and this kind of call response and that L doesn't let me sit with questions for very long after L has. You know, I knew that people would want to make charitable donations.
And I discovered the burning lymphoma foundation, which does amazing work, right? In terms of funding treatment for people who have CRPS, the burning lymphoma nation didn't exist when L first became ill. It only started a couple months prior to her passing because their founder himself that had CRPS and thank goodness had recovered or had gone into remission and began this foundation.
I didn't know about it. L didn't know about it after she passed. I found it because I really wasn't happy with other kinds of organizations and foundations that were. And the treatment that they fund is through a clinic in Fayetteville, Arkansas. And there's a doctor there. Who's doing some really cutting edge edge work who I never personally met an L never personally met, but has come to know L's story through the foundation, the burning Lind foundation, they've set up a Memorial grant and L's name it's raised over a hundred thousand dollars.
There are multiple young women who have been treated as a result of this fund. And so the, who runs the clinic, even though I never knew her in, I'll never knew her really. Felt this connection to L. So when the book came out, Phillip, who's the head of the Bernie foundation. Her name is dr. Katinka.
Phillips said, you know, I've sent her the book and she's reading it and she really would like to talk to you. Do you mind if I give her your contact information? I said, no, of course I'd be happy to. And she sent me this absolutely beautiful email that came as close as anyone can come to really understanding L's experience.
And we ended up then talking on the phone the next day and this, this was the remarkable part. So the next day she sent me a text and she said, I was thinking about calling you and I don't want to be intrusive. And so I asked to send me a sign to let me know if I should reach out and call you in her text.
She says, I'm in a loaner car because my car's in the shop. I normally just listen to medical podcasts. I don't listen to the radio, but I'm in this loaner car. And I asked Elvis, send me a sign and I turn on the car and it's not a random radio station. And she sends me a screenshot of the Tom petty song.
What happened? American girl. She sends me the screenshots. She's like, I don't listen to music. And so we spoke that evening. It's kind of haunted her for these. Where's that she didn't get to know L and treat her and had she known L would there have been anything she could have done? And we were having this beautiful conversation and she said, is there anything you'd like to know medically?
And I said, well, yes, there's something I'd like to know, but I don't think anybody has the answer to it. I said, but the question that I ask myself every day is what is right. Is there anything anyone could have done? Was there any possible way that her body was going to be healed? And I said to her, you know, I believe that the answer to that question is no.
And she paused and she said, well, that's why I'm calling you. She said, I want you to know I read the book twice. So the first time I read it just to understand well and who she was and who she is and understand, and her story. And she said, the second time I read it with a notebook next to me as if I were her physician.
Wow. And I track the onset of each symptom time between onset of new symptoms and the progression of her illness. And she said, and I knew, she said, even the first time I read it, I knew like, okay, this is coming next that it's going to be lesions. Then it's going to be this, that, like, she knew what was coming.
And she said, the reason I'm calling you. Is because I want you to know in the two years since she's passed, there's been some advances in our understanding of this disease, but at the time, two years ago, had L come to see me. I wouldn't have known that. And there would have been nothing that I could have done.
And if L had waited, if she had somehow been able to stay in her body for another year, and if she had come to see me now, knowing what I know now, or disease would have been too far progressed. And even with the new information I have. It wouldn't have been helpful to her and she's crying and I'm crying.
And she said, I felt like I needed to call you. And now I'm crying. It was just, you know, I think about any parent in this situation, the one question that, you know, can't help, but haunt you over and over for her to reach out was so extraordinary for her. And such a gift from L he knew that I needed that question answered and she answered it for me.
The one thing I wanted to say before, one of the major turning points in my work and meeting L was you were able to say, I feel that L is more alive now than she was when she was living. It was probably one of the most important and life changing words I could ever hear and that I can pass on. Even today, my clients, that you are able to know that so well that the relationship doesn't end and that for you to feel her so profoundly to strongly is something that I have been able to learn.
And I continue to teach. All of my now current students, your story and L's story so that they can in turn, learn, and grow and heal from her and you, and that's really your purpose. You Vanessa, the strength that you show every day, right? And the fact that you've captured it all in this book and that you're talking to them to us right now, and to everyone listening and watching you are showing what people can do.
And yes, you have such difficult days and it's not to say you never have them now, but you are able to carry on and show everybody that you can have this relationship. For sure. Your life's purpose is to show others. Who've lost, loved ones that it's not over well. And I mean, Elle's been my greatest teacher since the minute she was born, but L's the one who showed me my life's purpose.
Yes, she did. He really did. Can you also talk about the, the story of finding your ring so on her birthday, which is November 12th. The first birthday after she passed was about four months after she passed. I hadn't been able to kind of clean out her room in terms of medication and medical equipment and things like that.
I had kind of always said to myself, like when the time is right I'll know it. And I found myself late night after jazz was in bed, just kind of compelled to go. And we now. Everything about her sickness. And I was looking through her bathroom vanity and in the bottom of this drawer and her vanity, like way in the back was a ring of mine that I had when I was in high school.
And I hadn't worn it really in 30 years. And there was a little yellow sticky note that it was sitting up. And just in case you were wondering I'm right here, always have been, always will be. On her birthday. It's crazy. One of the questions that we've received at seeking with Robyn is how does Vanessa remember all of this?
Talk to us about this, please. One of the things that I have been blessed with, I think is this crazy memory, there's a term for it, but I don't know the term. I remember dates of things that happened and exactly what happened. Exactly what the conversation was kind of like to the word to the minute, to the date, but it's clearly a gift.
It was bestowed upon me. I mean, I've had this all my life, but probably something that was given to me for this. Purpose. Absolutely. I could tell L's story. I could do it with a level of specificity. So the dialogue that you read in the book is word for word dialogue. It's not paraphrasing. It's not it's word for word.
I mean, texts. I was able, you know, obviously to pull the exact texts. Because I can remember specific conversations without down to the word. I wish I had that, right? Yeah. It's unbelievable. I'm the complete opposite. It's a gift because her words then stay with me. I can hear them and it's with me. Exact conversations are with me.
And then let's talk about L and all of her advocacy. I know you mentioned the burning Lim foundation already. I'd love to hear more about the human rights campaign and really about cripple pong before she got sick. I think just because of her level of intellect and intuition for people and knowing her own sexuality at such a young age, The sexual abuse that she suffered, right.
There was so much life she had lived by the time she was 10 years old that she was, you know, a fairly outspoken advocate. And then when she did can set that just grew and grew. And she really became a voice for anyone who, who might be marginalized, whether it's through race or sexual identity or disability or socioeconomic status, whatever it was.
And she was able to meet these friends through this cripple punk. Movement group. And I wish I could speak about it more intelligently. You know, I, I would say I'm marginally, you know, peripherally, standing, but, you know, she was in her room for three years. And so her social lifeline became tumbler and blogging and pocket.
You know, she developed some of her closest bonds with people and really became not surprisingly kind of the guru and the healer. Or other people in that community, all of whom were dealing with some sort of disability or chronic pain and all of whom were part of the LGBTQ community. Many of whom don't necessarily have supportive families supportive emotionally or families that, that have the financial means to support someone with chronic illness.
I learned this at her Memorial when these friends of hers came and showed up and started sharing these stories one by one, they could name to the date. This is the day that I'll save my life. And so to hear that is just extraordinary. After she died, there were two organizations that we had asked people who were inclined to make donations to donate to.
One, as I mentioned, was burning limb, which funds treatment for people who are afflicted with CRPS. They created a grant in L's name that people can still contribute. To fact, I'll get to HRC in a moment, but this, this is another piece I've not had a chance to tell you. So I had this beautiful conversation with this doctor at this clinic and the next day.
She sent me a text from a 21 year old young woman who was of money from ELLs Memorial grant. And she sent me this text of a hand journal entry that this woman wrote one week into her diagnosis. It was written a year ago and she writes it could have been L's writing. Right. She writes about the pain and being misunderstood and like, how's she gonna function?
And she doesn't really think she could live like this, but she doesn't feel suicidal. She just doesn't think that one could actually survive this. And then she sent me another screenshot of a journal entry. She wrote one year ago on her 20th birthday. And the journal entry was, I'm going to give this one more year.
I'm going to give it till I'm 21 and then I'm done. And her 21st birthday was July 28th. Of this year and her journal entry was just simply I'm here. Oh my God. In, during the course of this year, her 21st year, she was treated at this clinic because of money that was raised in L's name. The stories just go on and on like people who are living their earthly lives because that's what they're supposed to do because I'll help them do it.
I will point out to you that in the book, there's a picture that you posted of L and I'm trying to re you'll remember. I know that where it had July 28th on the actual photo. What was that related photos? So October of 2018, when I was on this airplane and just having a moment and I looked out the window and the whole sky was a rainbow and I took a photo of it.
And then somehow my phone, like magically. As a related photo, pulled up a photo that was taken of Elle when she was nine years old with two thumbs up. Yes. Yes. I'm here two thumbs up. I'm healthy, July 28th of 2010. Send that to that girl. It's amazing. Well story. And then the human rights campaign. She's a huge, huge, huge advocate.
For the LGBTQ community. And through some friends, they invited us to come out September 7th of 2018, about six weeks after L had passed and they had a whole day honoring her. So I know she keeps doing her work, something else that connects us, that I just realized when we were all here. Together recently was that there's this photo and I don't know why came up, but Lisa and I were talking about it and you said, we'll bring the picture up.
And it's this photo of Lisa and I with what looks like a halo, connecting our foreheads. And it just always cracked me up. What is that? It's definitely a reflection of something, but it looks very spiritual. And so we pulled the picture up and we realized. That it was July 22nd of 2018, which is the day that Ella passed away.
And when I think we all just sat there, pretty stunned, but yet not surprised. And what was interesting is you were describing the picture as you were describing the photo and I. I'm a photo of want to know what date it was taken. Yes. Just had this sense that it would have been her passing or her birthday that it would have been something and sure enough, you found it.
And it was July. I mean, I have a chill. I mean, think of all days, all day, just like when you were just talking about July 28th of all days, it's another synchronistic connecting with L feel like every time we're together, something happened. I mean every time we've ever had a dinner or gotten together something weird has happened every single time, every single time that just validates always our connection.
I think what we hope is in the telling of the after and the living of the after, without it's this idea of a relationship it's not over and it's not just the past, it really is a dialogue for the future. And Lisa, I know. You really do talk about this all the time. It's recognizing the signs for yourself and for every person they're different, you're making something work.
I think that's important to these. We're talking about things that come out of the blue and, you know, I think it's also. Open to receiving and you give yourself an opportunity to actually see the things around you. I'm getting this very intense message now once to help anybody who's watching. So if you are curious about signs and curious about, yeah, this real true connection that can be made, talk to L.
She is going to give you the sign. I feel like if you want to play with her, and if you want to really have her show up and show you that she's here. Sure. She will ask her to show you a rainbow. Ask her to show you a Raven, ask her to show you that dime. I promise you're going to get it. So state open, like Amy said, and I am just getting pushed to say that that L is an advocate on the other side for being a connector for the living and the deceased user.
Talk to her, she will show you, she will work with you. I'm certain of it. And then when anybody who is watching this or listening does get those signs, please, please share. Yes. If you should receive any signs from L. Please send them to [email protected] or post them on Instagram or on Facebook and tag seeking with Robyn.
We will share them. And that's the perfect way to end this episode with L having the last
happily. I mean, thank you, Lisa. And thank you. Thank you Vanessa. And thank you, Amy. I love you guys. And I know that we have so much more to do with each other in this lifetime and beyond. Thank you for being your incredible souls. I love you. Love you. .