Seeking Center: The Podcast

What This Scientist Can Tell Us About Numerology, Our Chakras — and the 2020 Presidential Candidates - Episode 16

August 25, 2020 Robyn Miller Brecker / Karen Loenser / J. Michael Schmidt Season 1 Episode 16
Seeking Center: The Podcast
What This Scientist Can Tell Us About Numerology, Our Chakras — and the 2020 Presidential Candidates - Episode 16
Show Notes Transcript

Meet J. Michael Schmidt. He is a neuroscientist, intuitive, numerologist and community builder.

Robyn Miller Brecker, intuitive and host of “Seeking with Robyn”, was introduced to Michael through a mutual friend who suggested Michael do a reading for Robyn. Her mind was blown! He then also did a reading for Executive Producer, Karen Loenser and—holy moly!!!

In addition to receiving guidance and validation, a friendship began.

Michael is a seeker in every sense of the word. His journey weaves together science and spirituality. Yet for many years, he kept these different sides compartmentalized. In addition, as a teenager, Michael had been introduced to the practice of community building, which is also another important part of his life that he credits for changing his life.

While his college years led him to become a neuroscientist, his intuitive side eventually led him to study mediumship, the chakras and numerology. And this is why you need to know Michael.

How does he bring these different sides together?

Robyn and Karen have a fascinating conversation with Michael, plus you’ll learn more about Numerology both for yourself and how we can use it to look at our past presidents and the candidates of the 2020 Election.

In addition, he’ll give you his take on our chakras, which most likely will be different than anything you’ve heard before.

And, his readings are like nothing you’ve ever experienced. See what they reveal about Robyn and Karen! 

Here are the resources that Michael recommends if you are interested in exploring the Chakras or Numerology further:

The Numerology Guidebook by Michelle Buchanan

Want to dig deeper? Read this two book series by Matthew Goodwin: Numerology, The Complete Guide Part 1 and Numerology, The Complete Guide Part 2 and

Master Numbers 11, 22, and 33: The Ultimate Guide

Anatomy of the Spirit: The Seven Stages of Power and Healing by Caroline Myss:

For a more archetypal view of the chakras, Eye of the Lotus by Richard Jelusich

Richard Jelusich's mentor also has a book that details the chakras awakening process and what people can expect from that, Awakening of the Chakras and Emancipation by Hiroshi Motoyama
*This book isn't widely available but can be obtained at a reasonable cost from the California Institute of Health Sciences (760-634-1771).

For more from Robyn + Karen, and to sign up for Weekly Inspo visit

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram at @seekingcenterrobyn

Have you ever wondered about life's biggest questions? Like, why am I here? What happens when we die? Or what else is out there, but we have, and we love to talk about it. And if you're listening, we think you probably do too. I'm robyn and I'm Karen and we've spent our lives searching for those answers.

And we're seekers, just like you talking to some of the most fascinating spiritual teachers, healers and scientists. And showing you how you can use some of their spiritual practices for yourself. Also be sharing stories of other seekers. They motivate you to live your fullest life. We translating it all.

So the spiritual stuff won't feel so out there. So if you're curious, get ready to rediscover why we're here together.

I've had the pleasure of getting to know Michael over the past year and a half. And we're excited for you to get to know him as well. Michael Bridges, two very different worlds. He's both a scientist, a neuroscientist at that, and he's an intuitive with a deep understanding of numerology and our chakras.

He's also an expert at community building, which we think we can all agree that our world can use right now. How does he bring these different sides together? We have a fascinating conversation in store. We'll learn more about numerology, how we can use it to look at the upcoming 20, 20 election. And he'll be discussing his take on our chakras, which most likely will be different than anything you've heard before.

Plus his readings are like nothing you've ever experienced. See what they reveal about us. Let's start off. How would you describe what you do? Well, I'm going to start it for me. Just undergraduate degree in psychology, advanced degree in neuroscience. So just understanding people has been a theme for me throughout my life and got introduced to the idea of trappers.

Am I right? Thirties. And you know, what I really like about that is it's, it's kind of like an ancient, psychological taxonomy. You know, it really provides a framework for, you know, spiritual advancement and there's ways to, that's sort of like a, where people are at intuitively and along the way started hearing messages.

And then just like in the last five or six years, numerology is to come into the picture. There's a lot of overlap between numerology and the shock resin. So the nice thing about numerology is that it's. Based strictly on your name and date of birth. So as someone, if you're not that intuitive or you don't feel like you're not intuitive and you don't have to be to do neurology and start to learn it and understand it.

The other nice thing about numerology is that, you know, shockers sort of, it's sort of like taking a picture of someone. Like I gonna take a picture of you today and I'll take a picture of you tomorrow. And the soccer is just sort of like that, right? You can assess where someone is right now. Whereas neurology is much more cycle based.

The most important numbers are for your whole life. It's a cycle for your life. And then there's also medium term cycles and short term cycles. It can give you a sense of the themes that you're going to encounter. And so just sort of been weaving these things together over time. I don't think there's anyone else doing a reading the way that you do it.

I'm definitely doing my own. So one thing that I certainly, you know, that is in the theory of shockers is that there's three for each shocker. You have, there's actually three levels on the same tracker, the physical level, full level causal or soul level. So one of the teachers that I was with, you know, rather than trying to see if your shoppers are aligned one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, look at each chakra and see if it's aligned within itself.

I realized. During that whole process, my hands know a lot more about healing than mine mind does. So there was a lot of experimenting of like, how do I communicate with my hands to have it, tell me what's going on. So a lot of them, like, especially with the shocker readings are largely hand and drawing base, like my hands, do the work.

And I just try to interpret what my hands put down your drawings. They're unique to you. I wouldn't be able to understand. Now without your translation. Yeah. I mean, you know, that's something that's useful for people to know is that there's not the mistake. I think that there's one answer don't limit yourself to that.

The real thing is like, is it useful? I think that's really the criteria as opposed to visit, right? Like my drawing, you know, like if we were to have do some scientific study and we're able to measure really, it might be like not what it actually is, but it's proven to be useful and able to help me discern the information that someone needs.

Well, I think what's so interesting about what you do, Michael, is that you're taking, we always talk about tools, right? So there's, there's the tool of the shocker. There's the tool of the numerology. There's the tool of intuition, right? And almost like a musician, you take all of the different piece parts and you weave them into your own composition.

That's interesting. You know, we had just watched the, documentary on Quincy Jones. And I had never heard of a musical arranger before. Like I just didn't know that that was a thing. And you kind of like what it sounded like you were just describing me as like I'm arranging that the different methods and until like what the person needs.

And that's probably true. It's about people's individual journeys and trying to give them some idea of what their, what their choices are and what they're contending with. That's what actually matters in the end day. It's also why I believe that for every person, a different tool is going to be most useful.

Certain ones end up resonating more than others and then hopefully help them. That is definitely been true for me. I have repelled astrology, like repelled, like actively.

Yeah. But, but, but I've gotten at your readings from people using it, but for whatever reason for me, I have not, I've not only am I not been pulled to it, I've actually like pushed away from it. But so there is something about just trusting the thing that you're drawn to that is so, so true. Just to find simply what is numerology.

Well, it's helpful to understand the origins of neurology. It really started, you know, like 3000 years ago, ish in ancient Babylon. At that point, we still were developing the alphabet. So at that time, of course, there wasn't such a distinction between science and religion or, you know, mythology or any of those things.

And so the alphabet sort of got. Warmed in the sense of also it being related to the numbers, each letter is assigned a number and then you can translate the letters in your name to numbers. And then you can basically reduce that down to a single number. The alphabetic order that we live with now is not random.

I never thought about that. I was just going to say, that's a new way of thinking about the alphabet. Yes. The alphabet was ordered intentionally as opposed to it being like a random order, different, different alphabets have different numbers. There's also two systems. So like the Babylons the Cal DNS.

Were there and they had a, like a different system and it's sort of like Latin, Latin exists, but no one speaks it. Right. And so there's very few people that really use it and there's much less written on it. It's harder to find harder to learn and Pythagoras, like if you've heard of photography, it's theorem or geometry, it's the same dude.

Right? So he started a school around all of this. And studied numbers and studied its relationship to this practice. The Western modern system is attributed to him. You say that things were done on purpose aside from them, you know, studying it and focusing on the number three and like, what does it mean?

And that's relationships with triangle and the relationship of notes and sound. They just were like in it. For years and years and years, you know, again, I really do get rooted in this idea of like, is it, does it make it true? You know? And so like a story that I, I hold on to, as you know, I was at a native American, Sundance, like a real one in South Dakota.

And one of their beliefs is that if a. A woman is menstruating and is present at the Sundance. It will actually suck the life out of the medicine, man. So the men are sequestered who are dancing, right? So they are off on their own. They don't eat or drink for three days. And then during the day they're dancing in the heat and the medicine man was, you know, normally when I think of a medicine, man, I think of like a 70 year old.

But, you know, the way the circumstances were, this was like a 30 year old guy, like a strapping big dude. Right. And out of nowhere, like he's starting to have problems. Like people are starting to go to him, right. To see like, what's going on. He like, he can't quite stand and I'm just witnessing. Right. I didn't know what was going on.

And all the old ladies scrambled, they start looking in the bathrooms. They started looking for the girls who are probably ministrative. Apparently there were two girls that were, and the old ladies got them off the premises. And then like, he was fine, you know? I've really held onto that because I do, I really believe that there's some universal law that says that if women are menstruating, it sucks the life out of the medicine, man, I have a hard time believing that there's like some universal law of that, but because we believe it, it starts to become true.

Is numerology like, is there some universal law to it or is it because we believe that and has been believed in, has been ingrained and you know, the alphabet and everything else that it starts to materialize like manifesting. Right. And I know for you, you've really incorporated. Numerology into your own life.

And you've been able to see patterns and so forth. Okay. I've examined pretty much every relationship that I've had, especially like romantic relationships to just look because like, if I look at the chakras, I've dated all the different shopper types. But when I get to numerology, there is like a number that just like pops out, like way above everything else.

And it's like, that's. Pretty incredible. And it made sense. It's not like a random number. It was like, it was a number that made the, I like, I am drawn to that. Say that you mean it's their, their name adds up to you. Yeah. So, so there's two parts of this, right? So again, the idea of cycles, it's all about cycles.

Some are lifelong cycles, some are medium term cycles, and then some are shorter and you have your date of birth. Which is composed of three cycles the month, the day in a year. And then you have your name, which is usually composed of three cycles of first name, middle name and last name, but there's an always a middle name.

And if there's more than one middle name, it gets collapsed into a single middle name. So the numbers are obviously already numbers, so there's no conversion. So let's take 2020. If we were to use that date, we have to reduce that to a single number. So it would be two plus zero plus two plus zero, which is just four and that's a single number.

So we stopped. So we would do that for. The day, the month and then the year individually. And then we would then combine those and then add up the reduced numbers for a day, month year until we get a single number. So if you use your date of birth, that is your then your life path number, and that's the most important number in numerology.

It's sort of like what you're here to learn or master. We talked about that for a second and, and sort of where your journey started and how you got here. Well, you know, as a kid, I, you know, probably the thing to know about me is that there's really. Three paths that I've been on that have up until recently been very separate.

One has been an intuitive path. One has been a community building path. And then the third has been this scientific path. And they've all been kind of happening in parallel in the last five years or so has been this integration where these three parts of me have been, you know, coming together to know like as a child, were you intuitive?

Yeah, it was, you know, I wasn't surrounded by people that were talking about energy or shakras or astrology or, you know, anything like that. I just had experiences that I knew were like, what tell us, like give us. Yeah. I mean, you know, I would know things about people. Like even as like a really young kid, I had this relationship with like me versus my brain, you know, like I would tell my brain, I was given an assignment, like go figure this person out.

Right. And like, in a couple of days I would like things about them would be in my head that would make sense in neuroscience. There is there's this effect called the spotlight effect. And you know, the, the short version of that is, you know, if you were going to look. Where are your kids or your spouse in a crowded area.

And you saw that person in the distance, they would sort of like have like this little glow around a little spotlight. It would like pop out from all the other people. What I've found for myself is that people that would turn out to be important in the future would have that same spotlight effect or places that would be significant would have that same effect.

So before I knew them, I was already having that spotlight effect that I told robyn, I had that feeling when my, I saw my heart, my husband for the first time, I always call it like the WTF feeling. Like I can't really describe it. Or you it's like, you're seeing that spotlight effect for, you know, Karen. I know it was just, was a feeling.

And for me, it's like, I don't know. I walked in my house or when I met my husband just a little bit like gravity, right? I mean, you just have something pulling you to that and it doesn't even have to be romantic. Right. It could just be a powerful friendship or just someone that it was like, almost like an unlocking, you know?

Cause I've had it it's like with friends or places it's it feels like something gets unlocked. It's like, I, you know, but you don't know why three way to describe it. Yeah. Cause I've even noticed it with people that have been bad people in my life. It's about significance as opposed to goodness. Yeah. I love it.

This, this show is called seeking, right? Because that, I would say that that really depends. Describes me the, probably the best. It's just that I've always been seeking the truth. And I just haven't limited myself to what avenues are. So the, you know, the science and the intuition, they all kind of, it's all about seeking the truth.

You know, my childhood was not easy. I was a lost little kid and like the more I try to fit in the words of God. Right? So as a 13 year old, I got exposed to a process called community. Building changed my life, basically, rather than waiting for some disaster, like nine 11 or something for it. People that come together and there's ways to do this intentionally there's ways for us to build trust and vulnerability and connection experiencing that acceptance was really transformative.

It's kind of amazing how quickly that you can build a strong connection with a group of people learning that when you were 13 then. Well, so, so that's become a whole. Theme of my life is, you know, wanting other people to be able to experience that later, as I got into college, I discovered research and I discovered, you know, neuropsychology and loved it and, and then found myself after graduate school.

And my mom, my mom got cancer during graduate school. So that was a big milestone. She passed away. It took me 10 years to really get move through that. How did you get involved with chakras? Your mom passed away after that was this. Beginning of relationships starting to become about energy. I mean, the shock is actually was not the first thing that really got me.

The first thing that got me was I was just going to say about that because I mean, a lot of that was shaped from your mom's passing. It was, you know, I was, you know, in one of these. Coastal development programs. There's always these parents, you know, sharings, right. If you're sharing with someone and I share with this post before, so she had some sense of the journey I was on.

I was like, look, this is amazing if I know what I want to create, but you know, I don't, you know, I don't know a lot of people don't. I mean, really she introduced me to the Omega institution. I was like, okay, I'll check it out. And it turned out that they were having something in New York city and two weeks or something.

There was only four choices. And the choice that popped out at me was James van Prague. He's a psychic medium, right. Really clear within an hour of that weekend that there's either like 30 people that are plants in the audience. Right. It can seem real. Right. Or this is like, there's something to this.

Yeah. Cause there's this detail that you just, I don't know, you just can't come up with that detail. the nice thing about him is. That he wants people to realize that this is all within our own grasp, right? It's not something just special and unique to him. You know, that was my first experience of connecting to someone that had passed.

That really started the journey of intentionality. Yes. One question about your life path numbers. Can you just give me some insight, like what your life path number was when you came in and then shifted? So the five most important numbers are your life path. Which is based on your entire date of birth.

The second most important number is your it's called your expression or destiny number. And it's basically the same thing as your life path, except for your full name difference between those generally is that the life path is the thing that you're here to learn. Right. And what the opportunities and challenges.

That you're going to encounter. The expression is more like the method of how you're going to accomplish your life path. So it's this skills and weaknesses that you bring to the table to accomplish your life path. Then within your name there's validation, continents. And so they break out the vowels and consonants the vowels being the soft part of you, your heart's desire.

Or your solar X, right? Like what is the thing that without it, you're, you're going to feel empty or discontent. And then there is the outer you personality number, which is based on the continents. So the, the number I've left out is the birthday number, which is essentially like a special skill. And also it shows up in some of the medium term cycles, that would be the number that you would expect to have all these intuitive intentionality things like starting to show up.

Oh, interesting. That was a really big down. Where did the shoppers then come in several years of the mediumship and psychic development, then that started to shift. It's almost like a push towards the shock Rose. There's a teacher, Richard jealousy. And he has a book called the Lotus and he had a training and it was, it was the right training for me.

It's very like psychology oriented in the sense of like, what's the psychology of the shoppers and all, but also like, and space healing and remote healing. It was, it was the thing I was pulled to the other way to think of a shocker is really like. Right. And so we can disconnect ourselves from an aspect of our consciousness if we want, but it's, there's a concept or is it as an entity it's still there.

I always thought there were seven. And you look at the shocker system as there's 12. Yeah. So this is where we get into like, are there actually shockers or not? And if there are the, why are there different systems again, this is where it comes back to being useful. But the system that I have fallen back on is really rooted.

I guess, in the Kabbalah, everyone can find a book that talks about the first seven. And then the question is, what else is there? Sunni Gale. She has a couple books to talk about many of the different chakra systems that are out there. I don't think it matters again. I think that's what you're drawn to.

First, Matt, through you doing a reading for me had never talked. You did it all via email. You just, you knew my name. And I think that was one of the first times. For me that I realized that somebody could tap into my energy without physically being there or even being on video. So, Michael, for those who don't know how you work, the process, the way it's existed now is that someone will find me.

And what I'll ask. For his birth certificate name. So unlike astrology, you don't need the time or location of birth. You just need the date. So birth certificate, name, the name that they, you know, you use now or any other name that feels particularly significant. And then if I've made a connection that I don't need a picture, but every once in awhile I'll ask, you know, can you just send me a picture?

Just so I make sure that like I'm reading you and not somebody else. And then what I'll do is I'll do the shocker assessment and I leave the neurology for a second. And I do that just so I'm not biasing myself by what, you know, what the numbers are. I'll do two drawings. So one is the individual shocker assessment, the physical, actual, and causal level of a particular shocker.

And if it's like a straight line, then it's, you know, you're basically in this place of you're in alignment around that. And the themes of that chakra, if it's. Sideways or crooked or whatever, then there's some kind of internal it's like where you're not, you're unclear about how you want to express the themes.

So that sort of gives me a clue as to like what you're dealing with. And so I do that for all 12 and then there is still some just strictly intuitive things where I'll just see, it's almost like, what would I, what would I need to do to straighten all the lines? And like, I just. Get pulled to where it's a starting place.

And then I do a second drawing, which focuses on the domains of consciousness. It's often spoken to, we have four aspects of being a human being, spiritual, mental, emotional, and physical. And you know, what I have found is that there's really separate realms of consciousness in each of those. And so I'll, you know, sort of like draw what it looks like in terms of like your four rounds of consciousness and then I'll draw a shaquir profile for each of those domains.

And what I mean by that is like, how prominent is it? Each chakra being expressed in that domain. I know it's hyper detailed, but fascinating. I mean, it's like, you're, you're, you're creating a mental XRA right. Of, of the parts of them that you can't fit. I can't tell you the answer. Right. It's really, all these answers is internal conflict is it's always a choice of how you want to express yourself, but what are the choices that are in front of you and trying to eliminate that in a way that is grounded in some fundamental truths about who that person is.

Going back to what you said it like, it's really an X Ray of your soul. That's what you're giving people. So you start with the chakra aspect. I love what you said about how you wanted to do that first, because are the other aspects a little bit more scientific, right? Because you're, you're, you're using numerology, but how do they come?

Do they come from, you're saying that the shockers do that, the numerology doesn't. Because it tells me where you're in conflict and where you are along your cultural advancement. The numerology is different in that. It's like, what, what is your mission, your, what did you really come here to do? And what is life going to expose you to?

We see that through the life path number and what are the major strengths that you have and what are you bringing to the table? You know, the birthday and the expression number. It is possible to see what is coming intuitively, but the numerology also does that in a way that you don't have to Intuit it.

They compliment each other. I think very well. Numerology is about the opportunities and challenges. It's never about the outcomes. If anyone's giving a reading that says, this is what's going to happen, you should be cautious. Yeah. This is just guidance. So let's talk about the election of this year. Yeah.

I looked at a bunch of presidents rather than just by trying to get a sense. It's a benefit of having an Excel sheet to do it. All right. So another thing to understand about neurology is the analogy that I think about is like a fireman holding a hose to the fire and the water pressure. And so there's different levels of water pressure, right?

And so if there's more water pressure, it's harder to hold it right on target. So numbers one through nine are, it's like a normal intensity. It could be positive or it could be destructive. There's always. To Mo like you see that in the shoppers, you said neurology, there's always the option of a negative expression or a positive expression.

And then in numerology, there's also numbers that are called karmic debt vendors. There's four of them and those numbers have greater intensity, right? It's a harder hose to hold. And one of the differences between a crammer debt number and a normal number is that, I mean, there's a lot of. Theory around, like why you'd have a chronic debt number?

I mean, the, the typical explanation is that you're making up for, or trying to balance out some past life transgression or experience. Right. And you know, maybe that's true. Maybe it's not, what, what does seem to be clear for sure is that you are, you will have to deal with the negative expression of that number.

It's not about punishment. I don't think it's about, you have to deal with the negative and ideally you get to a point where you don't have to do that anymore. But like, if you just have a five, for instance, you could just be expressing that positively the whole time. If you have a 14, five, which is a karmic debt version of that number, you will have to deal with the negative aspects of that number.

And then there are numbers that are more powerful than that, which are called master numbers, which are for sure 11 and 22. And then some people think also 33 and then some people think any double digit number. And that's a whole conversation that self master numbers are also very challenging. So did you see.

So there's some interesting patterns for going into this. I wanted to get some context in the sense of like how common are chronic debt numbers. And so I looked at a bunch of precedents rather than just looking at Biden and Trump, the presidents that I, I went back for everyone in this century will actually, I guess I should say since 1900, you know, like William Taft didn't have any karmic debt numbers.

Ulysses S grant did not have any karmic debt numbers. FDR did not really, no comment. Debt numbers, JFK, no karmic debt numbers. All the other ones do once have had some aspect of that. So, Thomas Jefferson, yeah, it's really interesting because his life path is a 14 five, which is a chronic debt number. He also has a soul urge of a 14 five, and his birthday is a 13 four, which is a contract debt number.

So the five is about freedom and experiences. Some of the destructive aspects of that can be addicted to experiences. So like sex or drugs or, but it's also about infringing upon freedom or struggling with that. So you've got Thomas Jefferson, right? Founding father, all about like freedom of people while also having slaves.

Right. So let's do Allity of, he's a slave owner. If you want to call it a relationship, had a relationship with a slave, like could never leave, right. Had children with this slave. And yet what is considered this person who really is. What did you know, for all men to be created equal? So you could argue that his whole life really was defined around this idea of freedom.

And he was both taking away freedom and then fighting for freedom. It's like a really interesting duality. Abraham Lincoln also had a 14 five life path. Right. And so again, freedom and civil war and slavery. And so it doesn't necessarily mean that he was taking away the freedom, but he had to contend with that, right.

That issue. Freedom of others being taken away. And you could say it was defining of his life, go to Lyndon Johnson, LBJ, his expression number and solar 13 fours. And so the 13 for climate that typically revolves around like work and willingness to work and work hard. But it also, I have found that. 13 fours are well, the four is a healing number.

It's healers have fours. There's a lot of doctors that are forced 13 fours tend to have to heal themselves physically or emotionally or systems. Right. And so, you know, I mean, LBJ had his desire was social justice. And then he was of course, hampered by the Vietnam war and trying to like that situation.

Well, then they also have to heal the nation after JFK was assessed. Yeah, that's right, exactly. Richard Nixon. He had a 16, seven soldiers. So the seven's a very spiritual number, embedding the shoppers into this, right. It's like the seven pushes you towards the spiritual consciousness and the 16, seven in particular, you have to navigate both the light and the dark, the root of spiritual illness is lies.

It's like rooted on the lie that some people matter more than others spiritually. That's a lie. And of course, having to deal with lies right. Then you've got, you have words, right? So like, there's just an interesting, like the thing that the of presidency seems to match the corner data. I mean, that's the theme of this whole thing, right?

It's not Gerald Ford. He had a 13, four and a 14 five. And you know, when he pardoned. His justification was he thought it would be the thing that would heal the nation. Right. Right. I think it's so interesting that there's the 14, five and the 13 fours and that there's so much. And is that common or not common?

More than one karmic debt is really challenging. Just one is a challenge that you will notice. I mean, look, we could have a whole discussion about. Power and the people that gravitate to power and work to dominate, and, you know, the karmic debt number doesn't mean that they will be destructive, but they have to navigate that.

So again, like with the lies, right? So if you have a 16 seven number in your chart, what I would say is that that person has had to deal with lies. They might be the liar. They may be liars, may be attracted to them and they don't realize it, but in some form lies have been in the being a theme that you have to navigate.

Jimmy Carter had a 14, five. He's known for like his really good behavior, you know? And so maybe he navigated that can't come up with like, what is the thing for him? Ronald Reagan had a 16, seven, again lies George H w Bush. Right? The, the older George Bush, his life path was a 16, seven. So, you know, lies. And then also he had a 19, a one expression number.

The 19 one is the comic that we haven't talked about. And that is really about. Power the right use of power, power with versus power over and having to navigate that. And then you've got bill Clinton. So he had the 14, five and the 19 one. He also had two master numbers, so experiences and power, right? And so Monica Lewinsky addicted to experience and then the right use of power.

It wasn't a random person. It was when you bring up the 19 one, I actually thought there'd be more. Of that, but yeah, I mean, we'll do a Wilson have that Calvin Coolidge had a 19 one is interesting. They are coming up. Yeah. I mean, so like, you know, we've got George Bush, the younger, right? So he had a 16, seven Obama had a 19 one expression number and a 19 100.

Personality right. Use of power. Wow. With versus power over now, somewhat, I think, you know, many would argue that his whole presentation was about the right use of power while others would say that he just went off and did things to executive orders and to push his policies through. So then we get to Donald Trump.

So I think that there's the most karmic debts that we have to this point have been to. And he has four contract deaths in his. Five most important numbers. Wow. And you've, and you've actually said having to, yeah. If we humanize him, he's had to contend with some really challenging numbers. So he has a 13 for life path, which again is all about work.

Right. And doing your fair share of work and also the need for healing itself and others, 14 five expression number again, the need for experiences, right. Addiction to experiences. Right. So. All the escapades, the soul urge is a 16, seven. So the lies, right. They do. And they just come out and then he also was a 14, five birthday.

So he's got two 14 fives, right. The expression, which is the most important number. And then the birthday number, which is like the special skill. So it's like, it's not surprising. See that history of all of his destructive experiences. There's a lot because one number is it's noticeable, especially when it's in your primary five numbers.

And so to have four of them, that's a significant change. So we look at Joe Biden, he doesn't have any current debts in his. By primary numbers is maturity number, which sort of like comes into effect around 40, which he's obviously well over. He has a 19 one, which is right use of power. He does have a, you know, five soul urge.

So again, wanting the experiences, he has a three personality, which the three is the most creative member. He has an eight expression. Number eight is similar to the one from a shocker perspective, a lot of third chakra, but more like the executive as opposed to the trailblazer. And then, you know, you have the right use of power karmic debt plus actual power.

Wow. That is quite a lot. I love putting it in this larger perspective, you looked at all these presidents and just to see where we are right now. The thing that's been most interesting to me in looking at this is that you really could look and see where that karmic debt showed up during their presidency in a very public way.

They all had something that you could point to and said, and I know we're going to go into our readings, but one of the things that, our last conversation that stuck with me when talking about what's going on and how can we all. One of the things that we know about social neuroscience is that people find their group.

And so when we start talking about even just like some of the racial tension, racism is learned, it is true, but we can see a racial preference at three months in babies. So we come in with the equipment to identify our group. And we also know that when there's a lot of certainty and we feel safe, Our affinity to our groups sort of relaxes.

And when there's more uncertainty, it intensifies. And we're obviously in a period of a lot of uncertainty, you know, what energy people will say is that we're like in this moment of like a great awakening and maybe that's true, but I think we can even look at it just from a very practical, physical, you know, dimension.

You know, our culture is a dominance based culture. Dominance based cultures emerge from. The sense of scarcity of resource scarcity, right? There's an absence of resources or there's a scarcity of resources. And therefore the dominant are the ones that survive starting an industrial revolution. What we see right is the population explodes.

And so what I would argue is that we're really experiencing a culture shift of one that is from this. This world of scarce resources to one in which there are abundant resources and we've just never really stopped again. It's like the same thing with energy, right? Like I had this whole experience and then I was able to be intentional about it.

And I think that that's what we've been doing for the last 200 years is we've been going. Do these experiences of culture change, but we've never really been able to be intentional about it. And to recognize where we are in this transition from this scarcity model to one of abundance, you know, what do we know about that?

Well, it should shift from one of dominance to one relation, you know, as technology continues to sort of like obsolete us. In terms of human labor, being the driving force of the economy, you know, we're going to have to navigate that. So in one sense, it's going to get more uncertain. And so people are going to their group more and more.

And, you know, it's just change. That's paced that we're not, culture's not built to change that quickly. So I think the challenge for us is. To be intentional about that shift and to be gracious with each other. The thing that I would recommend to folks is, you know, to get in touch with their own relationship with scarcity, try to recognize the ways in which it actually not a scarce world anymore.

We just haven't stopped to reorganize it. People are still experiencing scarcity, but they don't actually have to anymore. There's like 30 homes for every homeless person in the United States. There is more than enough. We just have to reorganize things in a way such that people are taken care of. And then the other thing is the real thing that we can do is to try to humanize people, especially those that we disagree with.

I've been thinking about that a lot and actually discussing it with them. Friends and family. So I wanted to make sure that we did discuss. Yeah, well, I think it's probably the most important conversation we can have because you know, we're all going to experience this transition. I don't think there's any stopping it.

Now, the tools that you use, your intuition shock Roz. Numerology plus your community building and your scientific background. They're all saying at the same time, they're all trying to come together. To me. It really is about this. All these paths integrating into one sounds like we have a lot ahead of us in 2020 and 2021.

Let's talk then about our own paths. I mean, it could be interesting to look at why the two have you worked together so well, I would love that. That'd be great. robyn, if we start with your life path number, it's a three, which is the most creative number. It's like all that, you know, create something from nothing, also creating through possibility.

And this is the thing that you are here really to do is to be on this path of creation. And what's interesting. To me about your relationship with Karen is that, you know, when I do Karen's like shocker profile, like she is what I would call like the master creator. She's strong in the second, the fifth and the 10th chakra.

So the second shock be creating something from nothing. If this chakra in a way being the most creative and then some sense of like anything is possible. So I would imagine that Karen spends a lot of time waiting. Holding up that making things final until the last moment, right? Yes. No seeing it. So for people that are not like that, it drives them crazy.

But for the creative person that ensures that the thing that is meant to create has the time to do it. So people that can wield that effectively and not be uncomfortable by that uncertainty is a powerful creative tool and it allows possibilities to emerge that would not be possible if you tried to make a decision right away.

Karen is also very strong in the 10 shocker. You know, it was blending the masculine and the feminine and this capacity to have the creation be the right blend of that and to co-create with the universe. And so simply even just creating through one's intention of envisioning something and just having it sort of like a peer and like, you couldn't necessarily track back to.

The steps that you did, but it showed up and it became the thing that it was supposed to do. So Karen would be very strong in that from someone who robyn, that you are on gear to master the creative pathway, it would make sense that you would be with someone who embodies that so much sense. Karen. Eight life path.

So the aide is really about the executive. A lot of things, risk stuff comes up with that, like manifesting, executing, right? Well, this is like the inverse of leaving a certainty. So as the executive, right, you are having to find that certainty to execute on it. Right. And find that moment of when, when to execute versus when to create dealing with your own power.

And having your own vision. The other thing that is really what I love about the two of you working together is that your full name member they're both sevens or both of you and the word for a seven is a seeker

sevens are the seekers really? I thought you would like Rican. Cool. That, just talk about validating. I wouldn't use that bite for a long time. Talk about that. The seven and the secret. When people write books about numerology, they try to give a label like a theme to each number, right? And so that's the common theme of a seven is the secret.

You do dig deep into things. You need time to contemplate, you know, you want to explore the universe. Yeah, you want to find true knowledge and wisdom, universal knowledge, as opposed to the quick answer, it's a number that pushes you towards the spiritual. In my view, it's the only number other than the master numbers that stimulate the chakras outside of one through seven, unlike the 16 seven, where you have to navigate the light and the dark, the seven does not, you may have access to both the light and the dark.

But you aren't forced to deal with that necessarily. And so the same kinds of things that we described for the 16th, second, where your life is defined in some way, by having to deal with liars, that doesn't have to be the case for seven, seven years are not always the most trusted people. It's, it's the right number for what the two of you are doing.

For sure. That's brilliant. That's phenomenal. What else throw out there? So Karen, you have a 13. For solar, you'll have to deal with the positive and the negative, right? So there's an element of healing and a need for healing. And then there's also an element of work. And you know, when people really embrace it, 13, four, they work themselves to death, which I would imagine it's not a stretch to describe your life or you work.

That is so on point. And it's not even like if you're being forced to do it, you actually want. Yep. Right. I mean, I have to tell her to take breaks. I know. And robyn, I've never discovered at 34 where I could talk them out of doing that. And then I let it go of trying to like, you know, it doesn't really, it doesn't really seem to work.

So robyn where's you yourself? Urges that have a one. And so one is that leader follows their own path. So it's a little bit different than the eight, right? So they're both, you know, you see a lot of third shocker qualities and the one and the eight ones are trailblazers in the sense that rather than having a vision, like the eight would have a vision, the one is just like going there, like discovering their own path.

Sometimes ones make their lives harder than they need to conflict that isn't always necessary, but always a leader. Let's let's say it this way. The thing that would be missing from your life, if you didn't do it would be that element of carving out your own path. If you didn't do that, it would feel like there was something missing wow.

Filling. And that makes a lot of sense for me. And, and actually what's interesting when you talk about the one and the eight being the vision and the way that. We met and really what made us realize, like there's something much more going on here then just like a great rapport was the fact that I knew that I was on this mission to carve out a new path.

And Karen had the vision for a much bigger platform with seeking in mind. So when you talk about that, I mean, it makes me want to cry because. That is what brought us together. And we've said, wait a second, we are supposed to work together. Like there's not even a question complemented each other in that sense, in so many ways too, because robyn, like when you were saying like the trailblazer, like, I just think of like the Joan of arc with the sword up, going on.

Going I'm doing this and having the courage. I admire her so much for having the courage to say, no, this is what I need to do on a soul level. I'm going to go off and do it. So with me having a vision of what I wanted to create, I was just like, I'm holding on it. This one I'm going with her. We need each other in that, in that sense.

And I think we're still working together that way. Right. So even just looking at your birthday numbers, it actually encapsulates what you both. You just described Karen, you have an eight birthday. So the same as your life path and the aide is for a special skill or ability that you sort of come into the world.

It was like the life path is going to expose you to the opportunity to be that executive and visionary. You also come with a lot of the skills to do that. And then robyn, you have a master number birthday 22, and that is like the master builder. And what the master builder really does is bridges the spiritual and material world.

Like that is actually the goal of the 22 and to do it at scale. That's unbelievable. So I can see why Karen would want to hold on to you even before the numbers. But boy, the nice thing about it. It's not that you actually learned something necessarily, but it gives you something to hold onto about it and to be able to articulate it and then.

Ideally some way to be then intentional about it going home. It's so validating, it just, it gives you this guidance, then we're here to, to actually to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, I think, especially for beginner seekers and we tie in some of the social neuroscience, what is the thing that causes us?

Anxiety is uncertainty. And I think the temptation is to use. These tools to reduce the uncertainty is if the outcome can be told by the numbers or the astrology or the shock right now, I don't have to deal with that uncertainty because it's known. And I think that is a mistake because a, I don't think the outcome is known, but what it can do is it can, it can give you something to hold onto while you navigate that uncertainty and to create the outcome that you want, as opposed to, for lack of a better word, being victim to the outcome that occurs.

And I love the word you used earlier, which was opportunities around the challenges. I believe you come in, signing up for some of those when, when you come in. And so rather than looking at them as like destiny or fate, looking at them as opportunities to learn you chose coming in. So, Michael, what is your goal now?

Well, I'll just tell you what I'm doing, bringing the numerology I'm in a nine year, right? So like a lot of transitions figuring out what I'm going to do professionally personally, the way that I am creating right now is I am just trying to manifest the feeling that I am living out my life path. I'm letting the universe figure out what that is.

And so as things show up, I'm trying to say yes to things like this conversation, right. It shows up, I say, yeah, I just have a very clear intention. And I have found that having a clear intention of the feeling or the outcome that I want to experience is a more powerful way to manifest them, to try to manifest a specific outcome.

The things I care about is helping us navigate. The cultural transition that I believe that we're in, you know, how do we do that peacefully? You know, we can see people trying to hold onto the way the world has been and can't work. So we're going to have to create something new. And I guess on another note, so for those out there who hear this conversation, Michael, and might be interested in learning more about numerology or the chakra as you, you know, you did mention some of the books that you learned as well, but what's the best way to learn about these ideas.

My first advice would be, do the thing that you're called to do. And then there are all kinds of books. So depending on what, you know, you want to dig into. So there's, you know, for Shakur is probably the starting place would be anatomy of the spirit by Caroline Myss. And then for numerology, if you're kind of like analytical about, is a book published in the nineties by Goodwin, and then there's also Michelle Bachmann and I'm not sure I'm actually pronouncing her.

Right. She's got some books they're more accessible to the non mathematically, overly analytical. Thank you for. All of the preparation you did for today. I really, I really enjoy that really. You've given us insight into our relationship and into ourselves, but you've also given everybody so much insight into just the inner workings of what's going on.

As a society in our world right now. And you've given everybody so much to think about. So thank you. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Thanks. Bye .