Seeking Center: The Podcast

Life After Loss: How You Can Heal + Free Yourself from the Fear of Death - Episode 81

September 25, 2023 Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Elizabeth Boisson Season 2 Episode 81
Life After Loss: How You Can Heal + Free Yourself from the Fear of Death - Episode 81
Seeking Center: The Podcast
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Seeking Center: The Podcast
Life After Loss: How You Can Heal + Free Yourself from the Fear of Death - Episode 81
Sep 25, 2023 Season 2 Episode 81
Robyn Miller Brecker, Karen Loenser, Elizabeth Boisson

Oh, you are about to meet a spectacular soul!

Elizabeth Boisson is the President and Co-Founder of Helping Parents Heal a non-profit organization dedicated to assisting bereaved parents. Through support and resources, Helping Parents Heal aspires to help individuals become "Shining Light Parents," meaning a shift from a state of emotional heaviness to hopefulness and greater peace of mind. Helping Parents Heal goes a step beyond other groups by allowing the open discussion of spiritual experiences and afterlife evidence in a non-dogmatic way.

Elizabeth is also the author of the book, Life to Afterlife - Helping Parents Heal, The Book.

Two of Elizabeth's children have transitioned to the other side; her daughter, Chelsea, in 1991 and her son, Morgan, in 2009 at age 20, from severe altitude sickness while on a student trip to the Base Camp of Mt Everest in Tibet.

Immediately after Morgan’s passing, Elizabeth created a Facebook support group.  And then in 2012 she joined forces with another bereaved parent, Mark Ireland, to form Helping Parents Heal which has become THE resource for parents dealing with the loss of a child.

It’s hard to imagine life after such a profound loss…and yet Elizabeth and all that are a part of Helping Parents Heal have helped thousands of people find hope and purpose.


Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Oh, you are about to meet a spectacular soul!

Elizabeth Boisson is the President and Co-Founder of Helping Parents Heal a non-profit organization dedicated to assisting bereaved parents. Through support and resources, Helping Parents Heal aspires to help individuals become "Shining Light Parents," meaning a shift from a state of emotional heaviness to hopefulness and greater peace of mind. Helping Parents Heal goes a step beyond other groups by allowing the open discussion of spiritual experiences and afterlife evidence in a non-dogmatic way.

Elizabeth is also the author of the book, Life to Afterlife - Helping Parents Heal, The Book.

Two of Elizabeth's children have transitioned to the other side; her daughter, Chelsea, in 1991 and her son, Morgan, in 2009 at age 20, from severe altitude sickness while on a student trip to the Base Camp of Mt Everest in Tibet.

Immediately after Morgan’s passing, Elizabeth created a Facebook support group.  And then in 2012 she joined forces with another bereaved parent, Mark Ireland, to form Helping Parents Heal which has become THE resource for parents dealing with the loss of a child.

It’s hard to imagine life after such a profound loss…and yet Elizabeth and all that are a part of Helping Parents Heal have helped thousands of people find hope and purpose.


Visit for more from Robyn + Karen, plus mega inspo -- and the best wellness + spiritual practitioners, products and experiences on the planet!

You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter

Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker, 

Karen: and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to seeking center. The podcast,

Robyn: join us each week as we have the conversations and weed through the spiritual and holistic clutter for you, we'll boil it down to what you need to know. Now 

Karen: we're all about total wellness, which to us needs building a healthy life on a physical, mental, and spiritual level.

We'll talk to the trailblazers who will introduce you to the practices, products, and experiences. That may be just what you need to hear about to transform your life. 

If you're listening to this, it's no accident. Think of this as your seeking center and your place to seek your center. And for even more mega inspo sign up for seeking center.

The newsletter at seeking center 


Robyn: you're about to meet a spectacular soul. Elizabeth Boyson is the president and co founder of Helping Parents Heal, a non profit organization dedicated to assisting bereaved parents. Through support and resources, Helping Parents Heal aspires to help [00:01:00] individuals become shining light parents, meaning a shift from a state of emotional heaviness to hopefulness and greater peace of mind.

Helping Parents Heal goes a step beyond other groups by allowing the open discussion of spiritual experiences and afterlife evidence in a non dogmatic way. Elizabeth is also the author of the book, Life to Afterlife. Helping parents heal the book. Two of Elizabeth's children have transitioned to the other side.

Her daughter Chelsea in 1991 and her son Morgan in 2009 at age 20 from severe altitude sickness while on a student trip to the base camp of Mount Everest in Tibet. Immediately after Morgan's passing, Elizabeth created a Facebook support group. And then in 2012, she joined forces with another bereaved parent.

Mark Ireland to form Helping Parents Heal, which has become the resource for parents dealing with the loss of a child. It's hard to imagine life after such a profound loss. And yet Elizabeth and all that are a part of Helping Parents [00:02:00] Heal have helped thousands of people find hope and purpose. How is that possible?

We're going to talk all about it. Let's get going. Hi, Elizabeth. 

Elizabeth: So wonderful to be here. Thank you, Rob. And thank you, Karen. We're so happy to have you 

Karen: here, Elizabeth. Just to add a little bit to the intro, 

Elizabeth: my mom has written a book about, 

Karen: Her own healing journey as a mom and we found you because she recommended 

Elizabeth: you to us because you are so 

Karen: Much of a believer of the afterlife 

Elizabeth: and how 

Karen: those on the other side help us and meet us when we're there and you're one of the few organizations that really put that out there for parents and as we know, that ability to be able to 

connect with the loved one on 

the other side after they pass 

over so important to the healing process so We're just really grateful to have you here and being able to share your story, which is incredible.

So do we want to start 

Elizabeth: there? Yeah, let's start with that. I'm happy to. I'd love to tell my story if you'd like for me to. And I just want to say one other thing that kind of sets us apart from other support groups [00:03:00] is that we truly believe that it's possible to heal. And of course, we also believe that our loved ones and spirit are helping us do but I think that a lot of our moms and dads put themselves in the opposite situation.

If they had transitioned, would they want their children to be sad? And of course we wouldn't want that for them. And we know that it's exactly the same thing for us with our children who have transitioned. It's the last thing in the world that they want is for us to be sad, and they want us to go forward and do something important with our lives to honor them and to make them happy as well.

Not that they need to be there. They're completely happy right now. But I think that anything that makes us happy makes them even happier. That's such a 

Robyn: great perspective and a different perspective, as you said, most people don't talk about it in that way. And that makes so much sense.

Elizabeth: I think that a lot of people have a tendency to believe that if they are not [00:04:00] sad and if they aren't grieving, then they're doing a disjustice to to their children. Because their children are no longer here in their mind.

But their kids are still right here and they're watching everything that we do and so they love to participate and see us healing and see us doing things that they enjoy to do as well. 

Robyn: Let's talk about how you got to have that perspective. So you lost two children at different times in life. Can you talk about how the from the time you lost your daughter, and then Morgan, what had you learned in that time?

And then what happened in, 2009? 

Elizabeth: Thank you. I would love to. And for my daughter. Chelsea. I was living in France and I was on an I. V. Because of the fact that the pregnancy was going very difficultly. I was six months pregnant at the time and I spent two months in a hospital. Morgan was at home.

He was [00:05:00] two years old and I wasn't able to see him very much because I was in the hospital. Hospital and I couldn't stop the contractions even being on an iv. And she was born at about six and a half months. And so when that happened It was completely tragic. It was very difficult for us, but at the same time, I was able to get home to Morgan and I missed him so much.

My husband, who traveled all over the world, had to leave right then because he'd been waiting with me while I was in the hospital. And so he and I healed together and that was amazing. I also had a lot of tools from things that I've been doing since I was... Very young. I lived in India for five years and during that time I was very heavily into yoga and into TM, which doesn't exist anymore now.

It's just meditation. And I think that those things were very helpful. But it wasn't nearly as difficult as having an adult child pass. Morgan was on a [00:06:00] student exchange program in China, and he started in Nanjing, and then he decided to go to Tibet to visit They had done the whole school plan about Tibet, about the economic systems, about the society, about the difficult issues that exist there and he was so excited about going.

But he flew into Lhasa at 11, 000 feet, and then they went straight up the mountain and got to the Mount Everest base camp. The next day. And that night when he went to bed, he had a splitting headache. In fact, going up the mountain, all of the kids were needing to get the bus to stop so they could throw up.

They were dizzy. They had all of these signs of altitude sickness. And because Morgan was the tallest and the oldest, he had already been there His sophomore year as well. He spoke Chinese the best. He was helping everybody out and nobody realized how bad he was. They got up to the camp of Mount Everest and then he [00:07:00] went to bed early.

And it was in a yurt, which is a big open tent. And Morgan kept getting up during the night and wandering around and calling the kids by the wrong names. And This is also a sign of altitude sickness, but no one understood. Everyone was having these effects already. And so at nine in the morning they were supposed to go back down the mountain.

And one of the kids saw that Morgan hadn't gotten up, so he went to shake him and realized he was foaming at the mouth. And one of the other boys who was on the program called his mother, who's in Seattle, she's a doctor, and she said, Get him on the bus. Get him down the mountain, he needs to get down in altitude.

So they put him on the bus and started down the mountain and then he stopped breathing. And by that time, the director of the program had contacted me and gave me the number of. Morgan's roommate, his cell phone number. So I asked Colin when I got him to [00:08:00] please, Colin said first, as soon as I got him on the phone, he said, it doesn't look good. We've taken him off the bus where he's undergoing CPR, but he's not breathing. And when I heard that, I thought immediately Please put your phone up to his ear and I told Morgan that we loved him that we were proud of him and not to be afraid and it was the most amazing experience that I think I've ever had happened to me.

I felt him hug me and I was here in Cave Creek and he was in Tibet at the base camp of Mount Everest and he wasn't breathing and it was just as though he was right here in the room with me. I was so blown away by that hug. In an instant, I realized that love lives forever, that Morgan was going to be with us forever, and that he was happy, and it was a huge game changer in my life because I wasn't agnostic before, but I would say that I was more interested in Buddhism and the Eastern religions [00:09:00] and I wasn't really practicing anything, but I now know that this is not it.

I am a hundred percent sure. And again, I think that the thing that this taught me in an instant is that this journey is all about love. So what I wanted to do and my family was around me. I have two daughters as well. Everyone was crying. My husband was crying. My husband tried to take the phone from me because he thought that I was talking to Morgan and I said, No, he's gone.

And I just told him, listen, he's going to be with us forever. He is going to be a part of our lives until we see him again. And I really don't know how I was able to formulate that at that time, but I have never doubted it ever since. And a week later, I started a Facebook group And the Facebook group was basically because I wanted to see if other parents were having these same experiences that I had with Morgan, because I'd never heard of it before.

I'd [00:10:00] never heard of this thing that happened to me. That really set me on the road to eventually creating Helping Parents Heal. Wow. 

Robyn: holding back tears, honestly. And I love your smile and your authenticity and everything you're saying. And at the same time, because we can feel the energy and because we can feel Morgan, it's so deep.

It hits really deep. 

Elizabeth: Thank you. And he's huge. He's a huge force in my life, and he's a huge force in the lives of so many others as well. And one of the things that I want to go back to Chelsea, who transitioned in Montpellier in France. It's really fascinating because you wonder why she would have transitioned so quickly without even having a chance to come here and spend time with us.

And everyone that I have spoken to since this happened, who is involved with the Afterlife community, has told me that Chelsea was the transitioned.[00:11:00] 

She grabbed his hand and led him to me, and that's why I got the hug. 

Karen: Elizabeth, 

Robyn: was your grief 

Karen: journey different with Chelsea? was 

Elizabeth: it a different feeling when she passed? 

Karen: And did it take some time to work your way through that? What occurs to me is, do you feel 

Elizabeth: in some way that 

Karen: prepared you in any way from when Morgan 

Elizabeth: passed?

I believe that what happened to me, that shared death communication because I was actually having it happen right when Morgan was transitioning. But I know would not have been possible without Chelsea being there.

And I think that it was all pre planned so that I would be pushed to start helping parents heal. There's just no doubt in my mind that our kids are happy, healthy and whole and home. And we're still in school. 

Robyn: Absolutely. And my other question for you in regards to the actual experience, that shared death experience for you.

With your husband and your other children around you, you're living in [00:12:00] the physical world, children how did they respond to your reaction and how did you help them grieve 

Elizabeth: differently? I think it was difficult. In the beginning, because they didn't understand why, I must say that every time I tried to cry, I would feel Morgan hugging me.

I could feel him just hugging me around my stomach and there was just no way that I could do but at the same time, It wasn't sad. Every once in a while, of course it hits you and it's oh my gosh, it's graduation this year or it's this or it's this. And frankly, I knew a lot of mediums at the time that would say, I've never seen a parent like you.

How is it that you're not sad? So for my kids, I think that it was something that was healing in many ways. They are both very intuitive. They're both psychic. They have this home as the headquarters of Helping Parents Heal means that there are kids going through the halls and they're just everywhere all the time.

That means really uplifting energy for [00:13:00] me, but for them when they come home, they say, Mom, we gotta sage the room or else they'll all be in my room because they all hang out and congregate and they've tuned it off too. And so I think that, it's been helpful and healing to them, and also being able to talk about the signs that they were getting from Morgan.

One of my daughters her life was saved by Morgan, and I would say that three of his close college friends also have had their lives saved by Morgan. But Alix's was truly... Extraordinary. It was when she was in Paris and it was on New Year's Eve and it was the snow was falling and anyway that he shows himself constantly.

And I think that for siblings, it's really wonderful to have parents who understand this. And I think that siblings are much more intuitive than we are. They have more abilities because they're younger. They haven't had society tell them that this isn't the way that you're supposed to be grieving or the way that you're [00:14:00] supposed to be interacting and so it's easier for them to be able to contact and to stay in contact with their siblings.

On the other hand, I think that Because it is the time of their lives when they are getting their educations, they're meeting new friends they're doing so many different kinds of things. It's not necessarily the time where they want to be concentrating on this. And that's okay. It'll come back later.

can we go back for a minute to starting that Facebook page and you wanting to connect with other 

Karen: parents? Did you find that other parents had similar stories to yours? 

Elizabeth: Oh my gosh, yes. And it was so funny because the only support groups that I could find at the time wouldn't allow anyone to speak about the experiences that they were having with their children or their loved ones in the afterlife.

And I was going to some support groups. That first week I went to two and I would start telling about things that had happened and they'd say no, we don't talk about those kinds of things. And then there would be 10 [00:15:00] people coming up to me in the parking lot saying, Oh my gosh, I've had the same thing happen.

Tell me a little bit more about it. And so I realized that there was. That's definitely a need. And not only that, but I knew that I was on the path to healing right away. And I would go to those meetings and I would see people who had been there 15 years and they would be repeating the way that their child transitions as though that was something that our kids want us to say.

They don't care about that transition point. They care about the way they lived. They also care about hearing about the signs that they are desperately trying to send us that maybe their parents aren't recognizing, but they don't like to just Hear that over and over again about how they transitioned.

And I think that there are different types of transitions that are. Even more difficult to hear about and for parents to talk about. And so I think that makes it understandable that coming out of a meeting like that, you would feel sad. But one [00:16:00] of the biggest goals in every single one of our meetings is that a parent who comes into our meeting or a sibling or father Is more uplifted when they leave the meeting than when they came and maybe even healed.

I've seen it happen in meetings when they are able to connect with their kids in spirit. It doesn't take very much longer for them to want to help other parents. want to reach a hand back and help somebody else forward. Yeah. 

Robyn: Which leads to actually talking about the role of 

Elizabeth: mediumship within.

Robyn: So for those that may not have that direct connection, at least at first, like you did with Morgan, what is the role of mediumship in your opinion, in terms of healing? 

Elizabeth: I think that mediumship is. really a wonderful tool for parents to be able to connect with their Children in spirit. And I think that the most important thing is that any group that might have mediums working with them, that the mediums be vetted, that there's a program in place to [00:17:00] vet the mediums to make sure that they are who they say they are.

And I don't think that there's probably Any more healing tool than to sit down and be able to hear from your son or daughter for an hour. And at the same time, we also have not only mediums. We have people in our group who teach channeled writing, which is a tool to directly connect with their children.

We have teachers who teach Reiki. We have Xiaomi Healing Circles, which is similar to EMDR. All of this is free of charge, too. As well as Sound Healing and Andrea Khoury, who's up in Montreal, does this. every month, once a month for us, which is beautiful. And she does it. She's a shining light mom as well.

I teach yoga every day of the week, but I do it specifically on Thursdays for healing grief with yoga, Nidra on helping parents heal. And I think that there are a lot of different wonderful to, and we take hikes all the time as a group, which I think is also [00:18:00] really important. People do this all over the world in Different ways getting outside and being in nature.

In fact, when Morgan passed, all I wanted to do was hike. I'd been doing yoga so much that I was going to become a teacher at the time. I dropped all of that. I Went to the top of every single mountain around my home, and then we went to some mountains around the world as well, because that was where I felt I was closest to Morgan.

Really, it's important for people to do whatever feels good to them. But I think that hiking for me was a form of meditation and you can do that same type of meditation running a vacuum cleaner or gardening or, there are so many different ways that you can move inward and connect with your inner self to be better prepared to connect with our loved ones in spirit.

Can you talk a little 

Karen: bit about that vetting process that you do with the practitioners and helping parents heal? It's something 

Elizabeth: that Robyn and I are so [00:19:00] passionate about. 

Karen: We know that we're all intuitives in some shape or form, and we all have different levels of being able to do that as a practice.

But there's always that level of wanting to be sure, especially when it's a really grieving situation like this 

Elizabeth: to connect. Parents and families 

Karen: to the right person for them. So how do you approach 

Elizabeth: that? And how did you create that process? First of all, let me just say that we are super protective of our parents.

It is something that we want to make sure that our parents are in the safest place possible by being in helping parents heal because it is so hard. When you're in those early deep stages of grief, and I've heard of people paying thousands of dollars for a medium just because they want so desperately to connect with their child in spirit, and I'm not saying that.

That medium might not have been worth it. But at the same time, we offer so many free resources, especially with these mediums that are vetted. And I'll go back to the vetting process. We [00:20:00] only have mediums who have been vetted by the Winbridge Institute, which is down in Tucson and Gary Schwartz was doing this through the University of Arizona.

It's not a program that's really as active as before. And then Mark Ireland, who is the co founder of Helping Parents Heal his dad is Richard Ireland. I always say is, he's passed, but he is Richard Ireland. Very famous medium who did billet reading. So he would have a mask on his face and he would pull things out , he was with Mae West and all of the Hollywood people and He was really good.

I've seen videos of him, but Mark has his dad's abilities and he really wanted to create a way for people to know for sure that the medium that they're going to, that they're paying money to is a good medium, that they do have talent, and I think all of us are mediums, of course, but another thing is that it's really important for us to find mediums who would never ever [00:21:00] say anything negative about our children in spirit, because there's nothing negative to say.

If anybody is telling you that, They're being held back because you are too sad and they're not going to get over unless you're able to stop being so sad. That is, first of all, not true. If anyone tells you that because they transitioned by a way that's different than, for instance, a car accident, , For instance, transition by suicide or transition by a drug overdose that parents many times feel are are a more difficult way of transitioning for them to heal from There's absolutely no difference where these kids are in terms of the way that they transition.

In fact, I believe in a soul plan. I didn't in the first two years, but I've learned so much more. And Rob Schwartz is actually going to be speaking with us and Liesl, his wife. And he's spoken to us many times. And I just think that the idea of a soul plan is a very [00:22:00] difficult thing in the beginning because who would ever...

want to imagine that you would sign a contract with your children and say, Hey, let's go back this time and learn about what it's like to heal from the passing of a drug poisoning accident. And. I think that on the other side where everything's so easy, everybody wants that exciting thrill. And I also believe that the most evolved souls choose the hardest lives here too.

But I think that it's really important for us to be able to make sure that The team of people who are helping us make it clear that our kids are happy, healthy, and home. And, Again, we're in school, and they are in complete bliss. I think that there's almost nothing in the world that could make them really unhappy.

Everything that happens here is like a fly in the ointment to them. It's just nothing. And time passes. at a [00:23:00] different rate where they are, too. I have heard from George Anderson that when we see each other again, it's going to be as though not one second has passed, and I'm sure that's going to be the case.

And I can't wait to hug all of these kids when 

I get over there, 

but I have a lot of time before that. 

Karen: I bet you feel like 

Elizabeth: a lot of them through all of this. I know all of them. I know every single I post their tributes every single day for their angel dates and birthdays. And this has been going on for 14 years now.

And it's true that there are 26, 000 kids in the group, but I truly feel like I know them almost as well as my own kids. We're going to have a stadium 

Robyn: waiting for you. that,

Karen: can't you Robin? I can feel around you that these kids. are 

Elizabeth: cheering 

Karen: you on every time you tell this story so that you can inspire other parents, 

Elizabeth: siblings who are suffering through this terrible grief, not only explaining 

Karen: how they are doing on the other [00:24:00] side, because I feel the joy that you're bringing 

Elizabeth: into this conversation of 

Karen: them, which is in 

Elizabeth: itself healing but also how carefully you are making those connections 

Karen: for parents so that those light.

Those right conversations as right revelations about where they are and how they can be done. So thank you for that. Oh, I really do feel it. I really do. 

Robyn: And it reminds me too and for me my the biggest loss in my life so far has been losing my father when I was 12 and I didn't really understand that we never really die until I was in my early 30s.

So had I understood that when I was younger, my life now, I know it's all on purpose as the three of us know, to your point of having a plan, there was definitely a plan in place and timing was divine for when I did recognize it. But I do wish that I understood that younger because I thought it was so black and white.

And so I know for me. And I have a 15 year old [00:25:00] daughter, she is very versed in this world, very much is so and so immersed and so understands it that when she talks to friends about her grandfather that's transitioned or any other loved one, it's not the norm at the moment. And so I think the more that we can have these conversations, like we're having now to make it normalized.

The service that we're doing for our younger generations is huge, and for those even, no matter how old you are, to have that understanding, it's just tremendous. 

Elizabeth: I think that one thing that we do differently than a lot of other support groups do is that we speak about our kids in the present tense.

I never ever say anything about any of these children in the past tense because they're actually even more evolved and in the present than we are. And I also think that it's really important For kids to to understand that I've been told since the very beginning of this journey, I keep having this running around in my head that our Children on the other side are [00:26:00] ultimately going to save the world.

And I believe that right now in the situation that We find ourselves in with so many things that are happening that are scary and that are difficult. I know that they're watching us and taking care of us just as your dad is. And that they are going to be able to help us move to the next level.

Because I think that there is a point where things are going to shift and we're going to be moving to the next level. and I am 100 percent sure that, again, this is all part of a greater plan once you let yourself understand that the hardships that happen to you make you a stronger person, but also allow you to understand and The suffering that so many other people here are going through and that this journey is all about love, as I said, it just makes everything so much easier.

And one thing that I will say to very quickly is that having a child on the other side I just don't fear death. [00:27:00] There's no reason that I would ever fear death. And I think that most of the parents in our group feel the same way. It's such a freeing concept.

I have one mom who's an affiliate leader and she's one of my best friends. She does everything. She's also on the board. She's a caring listener. She used to be a hypochondriac. Every single time that she heard of her friend getting cancer, she was sure she had the same cancer. She had two... beautiful sons.

She still has two beautiful sons. But then Tyler was in a car accident and he transitioned. And ever since then it's as though this load has been lifted off of her shoulders. Of course, she misses Tyler. She misses his physical presence, but she's not afraid of getting cancer. She's not afraid of all these things that were fears before.

Because You realize that there is a bigger picture and you shouldn't be dwelling in things that actually you're manifesting upon yourself. 

Karen: Yeah. Oh my gosh, so my son, 

Elizabeth: Graham, lost a very dear friend of his. His name was 

Karen: Tyler, so it's triggered for [00:28:00] me very suddenly, unexpectedly.

He was very close to our family, and what you're saying reminds me of how 

Elizabeth: his mother was able to handle his transition, because right afterwards, There were signs, Tyler 

Karen: signs everywhere. There were lights going 

Elizabeth: on and off. My son was actually in the house recording 

Karen: that. It was very methodical.

There were things that were all around for my son, songs that would come up on the radio that were just 

unequivocally Tyler. She too had 

a reading with a 

medium that she just said, 

the brought through the mannerisms 

of Tyler speaking in ways that only he would speak 

and acknowledging things that only she 

would know and.

I remember 

Elizabeth: even for me, those signs, 

Karen: because they were so full of light 

and happiness and 

him I remember feeling like his crossing, his passing 

was more 

significant to me because of the joy. Like I really could feel the joy of his 

[00:29:00] personality shining through in those experiences. Whereas when I lost my sister suicide, it was a very 

volatile situation in my home.

And it was just, It's so shocking 

that I think none of us could even think about looking 

for signs. It was just trying to process. And I'm sure we missed 


many things right then. We got signs later, but yeah, we shut down exactly. 

Elizabeth: There's a veil that kind of comes in front of you when you're deep in grief.

And I would never ever say to parents. Get rid of that veil. Stop being in grief. That's something that's an important part of healing, but at the same time you shouldn't be sad or worried that this isn't working for you because of the fact that you're not getting the signs your sister is sending or Whomever is sending I was just super lucky because I was blown open right then and the signs that I got I can't. They were through the roof. They were these physical signs. Morgan was 6'6 here on Earth. I think he's even bigger than that now. [00:30:00] And he did some just amazing things. And I am sorry that happened with your sister because Again, it is so hard in a family to be able to move forward and heal especially for suicide.

And it's not because of the fact that I think that it's a transition point that's, I think that it probably was written into the soul plan as well, although I think there's a little wiggle room. But again, I think that a lot of times the most evolved souls are the ones who choose to transition that way.

But I also know that it's very difficult on the family, and it's impressive that you have chosen to allow so many people throughout the world to know that this is something that, Doesn't change anything, whether it's suicide, whether it's any of these other transition methods, they're all in the same place and they're all having a blast.

And they're all friends too, by the way. Yeah 

Karen: and just to highlight to the transpersonal journaling [00:31:00] that you mentioned earlier, transpersonal journaling is something that my mom took to right away. , 

her mother, my grandmother had 

passed. A few years prior, and she had started that with my grandmother, and so when my sister passed, it was just the 

tool that she reached for to really 

begin those conversations, and that That was 

really the thing that healed her. It took us a bit to really be able 

to process that my mom was really having these conversations. But when the book 


out. It was my sister. It was my grandmother. I could really read and feel their energy and what they communicated back to my 


So that ended up healing me 

in a wonderful way. And 

Robyn: I keep going back to what you said at the beginning of our conversation, which is If your parent passed away, they wouldn't want you to be on this side, not leaving your house, crying all the time, and you flip that, right? And if you lose a child, same thing.

They don't want you to just stay in the sadness and the grief all the time. They want you to live your life. And they [00:32:00] want to be partners in that. And what I keep Coming to right now is they really become your greatest teacher. I always think of my daughter as my greatest teacher now, and it wouldn't matter where she is, So to your point, they're very present. And Karen, in your world, Cindy is definitely one of your greatest teachers as a sister, and for your mother too. it reminds me of that as we're talking. 

Karen: Yeah. And, it's a lesson that if you can look at it that way. can let you have the relationship with them.

I think that so often what happens is when we close down in that grief, we feel like that there's that barrier has gone up forever when it's right 

there for you, if you can just reach for it. 

And I must say too, that, they love sharing in every single special day, every single celebration.

Elizabeth: They like us to Make their favorite foods because they like tasting them They're around us whenever we need them. It's funny because I think Suzanne Wilson, a friend of mine was saying she's a medium. She's saying they don't take [00:33:00] showers with you. Don't worry. They're not.

Yeah. But they're around us whenever we need them. And especially if we're trying to make a big decision, if we are worried about something that's going on in our lives, it's such a nice thing to be able to just ask them what they think, and listen for the answer, and know that, that they're right.

They're right no matter what. They know so much more than we do. 

Robyn: I think it's no coincidence, that you brought up That Tyler in your story, of all names that you could bring up 

Elizabeth: and name names, which is really funny. So I think that it was supposed to be that way.

Yes it 

Robyn: makes me. Realize both Tyler's are with us right now, They're with us. That energy is with us. And this conversation is so important for others listening, whether or not you have lost someone significant in your life because. At some point we, we all do. And so having this understanding and this knowledge is going to help you when you are in [00:34:00] that situation, and know that it's not hopeless.

And what that leads me to ask you about. When you're working with these parents in terms of healing, let's say they come to a group or, they reach out and they are in a really hard, tough place. 

How long would you say it 

typically takes to start to have this new perspective? 

Elizabeth: That is such a fascinating question because I've had a couple come from the funeral home.

They were just with their daughter. They didn't, she wanted to paint her nails before she put her in the coffin. But because of the fact that she just wanted to hold her and not paint her nails, she didn't end up being able to do it. They were the last people to join the meeting. They had just driven over and we had an Incredible medium who the first thing she did was to come to the back of the room and she said, your daughter, you just left her this afternoon, didn't she?

She had no idea about this woman or the couple. And she said, she's singing. You are my sunshine, which is. a song that the mom always sang and [00:35:00] she said she's showing me her nails they're all painted and does this have any significance and the mom was just bawling by this time and she knew her name too she also saw her running around.

She said, Mom, I can run now. She was in a wheelchair. So that instance. I think in a heartbeat, and now, the mom comes to our meetings, the dad doesn't so much, but to help other parents, that healed her the day that she had her daughter at the funeral home.

So I think that. A good reading can change a perspective immediately, and a shared death experience can, a near death experience can, an out of body experience can, there are a lot of different things that we can experience ourselves as well, but I truly believe that being in contact with your child, seeing the same mannerisms, seeing the same the things that they like, the things that they're telling you and telling you things that have gone on in your home the night before, for instance, that only they [00:36:00] could have known about is more healing than I would say.

This is what a lot of our parents say than several years of traditional therapy. So I feel really grateful about this and it makes me so happy whenever I leave a meeting to see these parents just chatting amongst themselves and just so excited about the things that they've heard from their kids and being able to talk about their kids too.

I think that's another really important aspect of our group because our families. Our friends, the ones that were friends, before our children they don't want to hear Morgan's name or Chelsea's name or any of these other kids names. It makes them feel uncomfortable. They understand that they're very important to us.

They're worried that if they do say their names, we're going to start crying. And. If they only knew that if we do start crying, it's tears of joy that people are still remembering our children. But in helping parents heal, that's all we do. We talk about our kids. So that's really a fun thing to do. That just 

Karen: reminded me [00:37:00] of a question that we got a lot even when my sister passed away.

What do you tell people if... Parents have lost a child that they say it's a friend or a connection through your children's school. What is the right thing to say 

Elizabeth: to a parent? I'm so glad you asked me this. I had a lot of people in grocery stores and just in town who would come up to me with their carts and then see it's me and like quickly turn around.

That is not the right answer. The right answer if you have no way of. Finding the right words for a parent is to go up, give them a hug, and say no words. That is something that happened to me frequently. And I just always felt like that was the most beautiful thing to say. Because really, no one who has not gone through this, I just would ever understand what this is, and I don't want them to all of us in the group are like, we don't want anybody to understand what this is and this is what I tell everybody to, but we can't get upset with the things that they are [00:38:00] saying I would rather have somebody come up to me and say you have other children, which is, that's never bothered me, but I know that it bothers a lot of people in the group.

This Morgan and Chelsea have passed, but you have two other Children. That's something that I know is hard for some parents, but again, I would rather have someone do that than just turn their grocery cart away and not say anything at all. So that's a very good question. And. In fact I have a friend Jeanette Mare, who runs Ben's Bells in Tucson and then all over the country right now.

And her whole outlook is kindness. Her son passed when he was three years old of complications of whooping cough, and she's dedicated her life to creating these beautiful bells, but more importantly, she has a program for schools and for workplaces to teach people, if there is a passing of a child or a loved one in the workplace, what to say to those people and what not to say too.

But that is a [00:39:00] good question. Yeah, I think we 

Karen: all struggle with that and definitely want to show our love and care and concern, but if you haven't walked that walk that can be a really difficult one to 

Elizabeth: define. Yeah, and it's 

Robyn: just death and the conversation around death in general is something that as a society we just don't talk about.

And so again, that's part of why we're talking about this today and having people become more comfortable talking about death, because as all of us know, you never really die. You just change form. And the more that we can help others understand that, the less you die. Fear of death to your point, Elizabeth, we'll all have.

I know that I personally don't fear death at all either and it is freeing. It's really freeing. Yes, 

Elizabeth: it is. And, I think that also another thing that I didn't add to that, if you are trying to find things to talk about with friends who have children who have passed, if you could try to find every single picture that you have of that child and bring those pictures over, [00:40:00] maybe make a pretty album, but also just sit down and go through the album with the mom or the dad, that is something that.

is worth a million dollars for a parent who's had a child pass. Sometimes these parents don't even have a lot of pictures of their kids, or if there aren't any pictures, just Sit down and talk about stories about your child and their child. And it really is heartwarming. 

Karen: you think that there's if they're young, they didn't have enough time, or they didn't have enough impact on the world.

And yet, when you share those stories to 

a parent that kind of adds. To the 

visual that they have of them 

that they can carry with them, 

not knowing 

that their son had an influence on their best friend, just knowing what those stories are just such treasures. So that's a really good 


Robyn: So for 

somebody who is going through grief right now, what would you suggest is the first thing that they 

Elizabeth: do? It's really important for them to be able to find a support group. It doesn't have to be helping parents heal, but it's really hard to go this alone. [00:41:00] And I think that there are some groups that are becoming more open to the fact that it's possible to heal, but also to connecting with our Children in spirit.

So finding a support group is key. Secondly, I think that You should participate as much as you can, because for instance, with Helping Parents Heal, we have probably 10 Zoom meetings a week in different areas of the world and here, we have two main meetings, and they're interactive, so people can ask questions as well, and then we also have the affiliate group meetings where people can participate.

And those are either by zoom or in person and people can talk about their kids and they can help each other and do other things outside of the meetings as well. So those are important, but also, as I said, we have a group of 34 caring listeners, and I don't think that I've ever heard of any other support group having this.

 there's, 10 different languages spoken. So important to be able to talk to someone who's not going [00:42:00] to interrupt you, not going to offer you any advice because these parents are simply parents and they're there to listen and hear about your child.

And I think that our caring listeners have done an incredible job with a lot of. Parents. But I think that the most important thing is to get connected and that was difficult during the pandemic. We had all these physical helping parents heal groups all over the world. And then all of a sudden we had to go to zoom, but zoom makes it really easy.

Even if you don't want to get off your couch and you just want to nightgown all day long. You can do so and you don't even have to put your video on and so it makes it really easy. We also have a database of I think it's now 529 YouTube videos of experts from the Afterlife community. So we've interviewed Evan Alexander and Karen Newell as well as Dr.

Raymond Moody, as well as, I should have said Dr. Evan Alexander, as well as Dr. Mary Neal, as well as all of these, Dr. Gary Schwartz [00:43:00] and experts from the afterlife and grief community, people who have had near death experiences, which is very reassuring for people who have loved ones who have transitioned we have a recommended reading list on helping parents heal. That's broken down into providers parents. So shining like parents as well as books for kids as well as books in Spanish because we have a very big helping parents heal. On Espanol right now. We also have a documentary in case people are interested in watching.

17 parents and finding out how we moved forward and healed and it's from the life to afterlife series. And then we have this book too. And the book is available every three months. I give it away for free on Kindle. If anyone wants to have the book, I'll make announcements. And it's not very expensive, but I always like to give as free.

Many as possible away. But I do believe that being proactive and finding like-minded souls is the first [00:44:00] thing that anyone who's new on this grief journey should do. And I think that it's also really helpful because I know that people who join our group, Especially when I'm heading a meeting and things like that, as well as Irene, who is the vice president of Helping Parents Heal.

We're always smiling because we can't help smile. It's just we feel the kids with us all the time. And the people who are newer on this journey, realize, hey, I'm going to experience joy. I just need to give it some time and I'll get there. Elizabeth, 

Karen: you also have resources I know for fathers specifically, fathers who may have a different experience on their grief journey.

Siblings. Who 

also may have a different 

experience on their grief journey. I'm also thinking about what you just said about being new on the grief journey. If there are those that are 

out there that may have shut down 

a little bit after or a lot shut down after the death of a loved one, a child, a sibling.

is there any time that's too late to [00:45:00] join Helping 

Parents Heal? Do you have to be new on the journey or can it be at all? 

Oh my goodness, it's so funny because we have one of our affiliate leaders now, she had avoided any kind of meetings for 15 years and she was so angry at her son and he passed in a motorbike accident and the first meeting of Helping Parents Heal that she came to.

Elizabeth: There were hundreds of people and there was just this one seat next to a friend of hers. Her friend was like, Oh my gosh, Margaret, you're here. And so then they sat down, first child to come through is Kenny, is her son. And she's Oh, where have you been? But he had been trying this whole time.

And then every single meeting, every single monthly meeting she came to. Kenny was the first to come in again, and there's no doubt in her mind that Kenny's with her now. there's no time limit on this. Anybody can move forward and heal, and I don't know if you'd like for me to when you're asking me about tools, but in the book I have just 10 very short ways to heal from the passing of a child.

[00:46:00] So the first one is know that your child is not gone, the veil that separates. You from your son or daughter is as thin as a sheet of wax paper, and when we see them again, we will feel as though not one second has passed.

The second one is take one breath at a time, then one minute at a time until you are ready to move forward. Nobody should be forcing them to do that. do anything that they don't want to. Everyone's journey is different. Don't compare yours to anyone else's. You are unique just as your child is unique.

So don't force anything on yourself. The third is about knowing that your child is happy, healthy and home and that we're still in school, which was what I had been saying earlier. Surround yourself with friends who understand, and this is something that's really important because I think that a lot of people become very sad, not only because of the fact that some parents feel like having a child pass [00:47:00] might be contagious, and so they fade into the background, but also it's important to Be around people who you can talk to about these incredible synchronicities and validations and signs that your children are sending you.

Be kind both to yourself and to others. Helping others helps us even more, which is something that I've found all along. Once you move forward on the path to healing, reach a hand back to help others forward, which I would say that this happens in all of our groups. It's funny because I used to say at the very beginning of Helping Parents Heal meetings that the day that no one shows up for a meeting is the day that I feel like my work will have been done because everybody's healed.

But that doesn't happen that way because everybody who comes wants to come to help other people. And plus, of course, there are also children who are passing every day. But I didn't want it to grow. I wanted it to just be a way for people to understand and then say, Oh, my son is here. My, my daughter's here.

[00:48:00] But it is still wonderful to have all of these people who are actively helping express gratitude. Gratitude is just such a huge part of my day. We have so much to be grateful for on this journey. Watch for the signs and gifts that your children send you and be sure to always thank them. This will automatically bring more gifts, and that's important to know, too.

Express forgiveness for yourself and for others. We can't heal without letting go of the feelings of guilt and anger that hold us back, because those are two of the things that really hold us back most when we're trying to heal. Live each day in honor of your child or your loved one in spirit. They are so proud of us, and they share in everything that we do.

Raise your vibration, and I guess this kind of sounds like a difficult thing to do unless you've heard of what this means, but, I'm a vegetarian, and I have been for pretty much my whole life but eating healthy plant based foods, practicing yoga, meditation, taking [00:49:00] long hikes, take off your shoes and connect your feet to the earth, use crystals and essential oils, use sound meditation and breathing exercises, and again, practice kindness wherever you go.

And 10th one is learn to communicate with your child in spirit. Think you should go through everything else first and then maybe just concentrate on that through automatic writing, guided meditation, the pendulum, dream visits, mirror gazing, which is what Dr. Raymond Moody used to do, forest bathing, Reiki, and much more.

We can all do 10.

 Ways that I realize helped me to move forward and heal. And I think that it's something that is fairly easy for others to also use as a guide. And they don't have to be following every single one of them, but even one or two would be helpful. 

Robyn: We have the link both to helping parents heal in our show notes.

 The resource that you [00:50:00] have created along with Mark is just. Unbelievable, really. It's incredible how it's grown and how many parents that you're helping to heal. In addition to all of those children that I'm sure are so grateful and continue, I would imagine, helping this thrive.

So that, yeah, people don't have to suffer while they're here. 

Elizabeth: I would say that the kids are the biggest motivator. And whenever anybody says that I built this to be such a huge level, I always say that it's the kids because they push me out of bed in the morning. At 5. 30 in the morning, I'm out of bed because they want me to post those.

I honor them in the morning for their birthdays their the tributes. And angel dates and I can just feel them it's almost like a ringing in my ears. Okay, ready to go? Are we going to do this? ? Because I know that their parents really want to see those tributes.

And and they push me throughout the day as well. And they really are good gauges of if I feel uncomfortable about doing something, I realize that. [00:51:00] This is something that's real and I've become much better at listening to my intuition, which I know comes from them. 

Karen: I'm just thinking too about the impact that you're having, not only on the parents, but the families who are now learning and teaching their own children how to deal with their grief.

And so they'll teach their children when they have whatever stage of their lives that they have to go through it. But what a legacy of an imprint that you're putting on not only parents, but their whole entire family. So thank you for doing that, Elizabeth. I've been so inspired by this conversation today.

I'm looking at my own grief. Differently, and I'm sure a lot of people who are listening well to like you really can heal. And I think you said that at the very beginning and I'm sure that so many people when they first encounter this don't feel that's possible, but you've given us. amazing ways of figuring out how to do just that.


Elizabeth: thank you. Thank you. And yes, it is possible to heal. And it is something that will make everyone's life so much easier. One last thing is that I believe that this generation of [00:52:00] children who are growing up are all very intuitive and I think that this is what they call the indigo children generation.

I think that we're going to be seeing a lot more compassion and kindness and understanding and I'm really looking forward to that and I must say that. The siblings that I have met are some of the most compassionate people that I've ever met. And I know that going through that in your own family has created a situation where you want to be able to go out and help as many people as you can.

And that's the way that my daughters are as well. And through this horrible and... Very difficult tragedy has come something that's going to be beautiful and I really appreciate it. And I appreciate that you have followed the calling of your father as well, who's helping you, Robyn. Very much. 

Robyn: Oh my god, it makes, I could cry right now because I'm so grateful.

Really. He definitely has helped. I know this is part of my purpose. [00:53:00] And I know that was a pact that we made before we came into this lifetime and as difficult as it was for a long time. I see it now I see the big picture and I'm so grateful to have these conversations to help wake people up and look at things in a different way and realize that there's so much to do while we're here, and that we have so much support on the other side.


Elizabeth: thank you. Thank you for inviting me it's been really wonderful to speak to both of you and I am sure that this show is going to be helping so many. people throughout the world. 

Robyn: Oh, thank you so much. And For everyone listening, you can find out more about all of the offerings through Helping Parents Heal, including Elizabeth's book and the documentary that Elizabeth mentioned at helpingparentsheal. org. And we'll have many more specific links within our show notes. So thank you so much, Elizabeth.

We look forward to speaking again soon. 

Elizabeth: Thank you. I hope that we do. Thanks so much. Take care. Thank you. 

Life After Loss: How You Can Heal + Free Yourself from the Fear of Death