In this week’s podcast episode, we’re diving into the world of psychedelics and plant medicine. Think of this as psychedelics 101. There is so much to learn and explore in this world. Torrie Nelson, an integration specialist in the healing and transformation world, introduces the basics of each of the major psychedelics and plant medicines.
What are they? How can they potentially help you? How do they work? What could an intentional journey look like? What does integration mean? How does that work? We’ll be discussing all of it. Torrie shares her wisdom and guidance.
In addition, Torrie shares her own journey into this world which may serve as an aha! for you. For those of you even a little bit curious about the power of plant medicine this is for you!
Visit www.Satoritribu.com to connect with Torrie and for more information about the safe and secure community being created to share, connect and participate.
In this episode:
*Mescaline + San Pedro
*5-MeO-DMT/Bufo Alvarius Toad
Robyn: [00:00:00] I'm Robyn Miller Brecker,
Karen: and I'm Karen Loenser. Welcome to seeking center. The podcast,
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Robyn: In this episode of seeking center, we're diving into the world of psychedelics and plant medicine. Think of this as psychedelics 1 0 1, there is so much to learn and explore it in this world. So in the future, we'll explore each of these plant medicines in more depth. But for this [00:01:00] episode, with the wisdom and guidance of Torrie Nelson An integration specialist in the healing and transformation world. We'll discuss the basics of each of the major psychedelics and plant what are they, how can they potentially help you? How do they work? What could an intentional journey look like? What does integration mean? How does that work? We'll be discussing all of it. In addition, Torrie shares her own journey into this world, which may serve as an aha for you.
For those of you even a little bit curious about the power of plant medicine. This episode is for you. Let's get started.
Torrie we're going to start really basic what are
Torrie: psychedelics? psychedelics are powerful psychoactive substances that alter perception and mood and affect numerous cognitive processes. So targeting, identified key areas in the brain, putting you in expanded states of consciousness in various states of consciousness.
The word psychedelic is actually derived from the Greek origin. So psyche means soul or mind where [00:02:00] Deion or Delos means to manifest. So the psychedelic word essentially means mind manifesting or soul manifesting. How did I not know that?
Karen: I think the thing is people have such perception of what they think psychedelics are versus really getting down to the basics of how you just explained it.
And this idea of your mind being able to manifest and giving it this power that people may not even realize that they have with the assistance of this medicine, I think is what is peaking a lot of interest now with people. How did you start Torrie? How did you get involved with psychedelics yourself?
Torrie: Oh, that's a big story. I really started my journey when I was, around 20 years old as the recreational aspect to it. So at that point, I didn't really understand intention or set and setting or who you're sharing those experiences with. at 20 years old, my friend, she wanted to try psilocybin magic mushrooms for the first time for her 21st birthday.
So that was really my first exposure to any psychedelic. And through that [00:03:00] experience, nor did I understand, that intention or that sentence setting or who you're sharing that experience with and how much that can actually impact your experience itself. And so there was recreational use and curiosity but really in 2017, the partner that I had at the time.
We started having interest into the psychedelic space reading books, listening to podcasts, reading articles, and, understanding how they are assisting with depression, anxiety. And, we've started to read how to change your mind by Michael Pollan or awareness by Anthony De Mello
the untethered soul, the journey beyond yourself by Michael singer. And I really had to give some context into my partner at the time, cause he was extremely influential into that space. So in 2017, when we met and started really diving into this space, he was a person who's childhood, he grew up in impoverished areas of Akron, Ohio.
Living in and out of government housing, food pantries, [00:04:00] living with a single mother. He later in adult life turned into a special ops E O D tech in the military and started doing tours and Iraq. And then he got out, he became an entrepreneur. So this is a man who was extremely driven, a man who was extremely determined and a man who also had an extremely hard shell.
And he was a very type a man. And so through all of this curiosity, his anxiety and his depression and his PTSD. We started to gain curiosity and opportunities started to present itself in 2018 where we had a friend approach us. And he, said that there was a two day cabin psychedelic retreat that was happening in Ohio.
And my partner at the time decided that he was going to attend, that he wanted to experience this after all of the information and readings and all of the education we received. And I wasn't quite sure what to expect when he left for that experience.
And when he came back, he was just. So raw and vulnerable and soft. And as soon as he walked [00:05:00] into the house, he dropped his bags and it almost makes me tear up thinking about it again, anding that experience.
He fell into my lap and he just started weeping. And I got to see a of him that I didn't even existed. And I looked at him and said, wow, if this has the potential to create an impact with you, I have to try this. I have so much curiosity.
And so April of 2018, we made arrangements and participated in my first intentional deep dive psychedelic journey. And that completely changed my life forever. I got to see myself for the first time. I got to go deep into my own mind. And I didn't realize at the time how much I had. Not thought about me, how much I wasn't honoring myself or the life that I have or sharing appreciation for any of it.
I got to go in and in that experience because everything is happening behind an imask at that point. And so there's no external input that is imprinting on your experience. Everything is happening [00:06:00] within and seeing myself for the first time I gotta hold me. I gotta say hi to me. I gotta see , the words that I was using against myself and that, that weren't really in alignment are helpful.
And I got to also go back in and really see my mother and go through the different dynamics of our relationship up until that point now is at 27 at this time and acknowledge the conversations, the experiences that we've had throughout childhood. And I actually got to see her for the first time and I didn't know any of this.
So the medicine was really gifting me the ability to see her life and who she was and why she was the way that she was She was one of six in her household. My grandfather only made $6,000 a year and my grandmother didn't work. She didn't have indoor plumbing until she was a junior in high school.
So I got to go in and acknowledge all of these parts and pieces of her character, of her personality and go, wow. Okay, this makes sense. So I got to have this immense [00:07:00] reverence and immense understanding of who she is and why she is the way she is and the beautiful mother that she is and ways in which, she thinks and the ways in which she reacts I actually got to have experiences with my grandmother in that space too. Her passing was extremely difficult for me. So I actually got to see my grandmother and hold her which was really beautiful. I also got to, receive information on insights into my current relationship.
And so that experience changed my life completely forever. And since that moment, I just started diving deeper and deeper into that space, creating my own intentional spaces and exploring with various psychedelics and their human properties, which ultimately led me to the grandmother of plant medicines.
Ayahuasca starting my journey experience in 2018 and then two years later in. 2020. I got to experience her medicine for the first time, which opened my eyes to so much more. That was deeper within my psyche or in what we [00:08:00] were all a part of in existence. And so throughout the four years of this exploration of self and of God, we didn't know many others who were diving into the space, we literally had to learn what integration was.
We had to teach ourselves and learn and unlearn without guidance outside of each other, outside of the resources we were finding that were useful and helpful and understanding some of these expanded, conscious experience and healing which ultimately was extremely challenging to navigate. Cause in that space, you're diving deep into the basement of your subconscious you're reliving traumatic experiences that your ego protected you from remembering.
Cause they're so painful. You're seeing parts of yourself that you didn't know existed. You are experiencing the true essence of God for the first time. And so everything in which you thought to be true, you start to question your day to day life. And so these psychedelics, they create non-ordinary states of consciousness.
So they can give you a clear or CRISPR vision of what you haven't seen. There's like the classic, [00:09:00] the wall is melting, Or the classic experiences of the pink elephant that is seen to you from across the room. You can also relive and revisit past memories. So like I just did with my grandmother, you can also become the seven year old self playing on the beach for your family member or speaking to a loved one that has passed there's extreme, expanded spiritual qualities that inhab in these medicine journey spaces, and they increase your vulnerability.
They increase your suggestibility and ability to ask questions and to be curious, Really amplifying the change of, internal or external sensory from heightened sense of awareness, becoming more sensitive, losing the sense of a body part or physical self, seeing geometric shapes or colors within nature.
You can see the grasp breathing or the bark, the tree changing shape and form. You can be in these spaces and look your reflection in the mirror and witness your face. Changing from the young self, into an elder self, or even becoming a different person entirely. There's an expanded awareness [00:10:00] and emotional range.
So within a four to six hour period of this experience, using these plant medicines, you can experience an entire range of emotional states, fear, acceptance, anger, love, pain, forgiveness, clarity, sorrow, all of it. And sometimes you're experiencing those emotions individually, but sometimes. You're experiencing it simultaneously at all at once.
And they're changing the meaning and perception of your reality and giving us the ability to have an entirely new perspective on an event or memory of our lives and our emotional state around it. And you could also have what's called synesthesia, which is really amazing which is the act of tasting colors or hearing numbers could become a grain of the wood of the tree or a music note being played.
And you're just in the space like, whoa, what is happening? I can't believe that I'm actually getting to experience. You actually become. Very cognizant and aware of your experience and you can notice the self and the higher self that exists within that same space. And so you're able to ask [00:11:00] questions, you're able to see yourself as the Tori, and then also as the highest version of Tori who is able to taste colors in your numbers.
There's also physical symptoms that can come from a that are influenced by mind and emotion. So in that space, you can have trauma releases. So panic attacks, nausea, pain if you're experiencing back pain, I've had, the medicine go in and the guides within those spaces rewire my entire synaptic connection when I hurt my back.
And so coming out of that space, my back pain had decreased substantially. You can have rapidly persistently reduced symptoms of several psyched or psychiatric illnesses. And so through this process is when I really started taking an interest in learning about meditation and somatic work and breath work and the central nervous system, dopamine and serotonin.
What trauma is the patterns of our thoughts, the patterns of our behaviors. I just dove really deep into that space learning and educating and, gaining wisdom through the [00:12:00] experience of my own personal experience. And through this accumulated knowledge, I slowly started working with people to assist them and understanding their experiences, providing a safe space for them to try to concept.
Or not conceptualize the experience itself because it can be extremely difficult guiding them through their integration process and introducing various modalities to assist in creating a deep relationship to our mind and body.
Robyn: Tori, that is quite the journey and, oh my goodness. I've there's so many questions.
There's so many que one question I do wanna ask it's a little more detail oriented, but for everybody listening, when you started in that first life changing intentional experience that you had in 2018, was that with psilocybin
Torrie: No, that was with a combination. So the medicine keeper that we went to, he worked with various other medicine keepers and started to create different compounds that would reveal specific experiences. So when you're working [00:13:00] with somebody of trauma who has severe PTSDs say they did a tour in Iraq and they watch their platoon be bombed introducing something like MDMA or MDA you're able to go into that space with a lot more openheartedness and slide into that space in a more softer and gentle way.
Because if you're using something as potent as psilocybin or LSD, or even jumping into an Ayahuasca ceremony where you don't have the foundational skill set that is built, then it can and a lot of this PTSD or. Past traumas surface, and you don't have the skillset to really navigate that in that space or even the skill set or the foundation to integrate that afterwards, it can be retraumatizing.
And so the man that I worked with, every person that would come in for their very first deep dive journey experience, he would introduce a protocol which was M D a MDA and intermuscular ketamine. And so it was a five to six hour experience that was completely behind an eye mask, the entire time [00:14:00] linked to a playlist.
And so the playlist is what really guides you through that experience. Now you can keep the eye mask on where you can take it off depending on your comfortability or where you're at. And, if you do take it off, it's like changing the channel a little bit. So if you're get stuck in a really deep space in which you're not really comfortable in, you can always take the I mask off and blink the eyes a few times, and it really changes the channel.
So you actually have so much control in that space and you can go as deep as you allow yourself to go. So you're really creating this incredible relationship, not just with the medicines, but with the self and how much are you willing to see and how far and deep are you willing to go? And so that first experience in 2018 was that specific.
I'm gonna call it a heart protocol because it was extremely soft and gentle. I got to just experience the reverence of love and the essence of love and what that really felt like in my body, because I never experienced that before I just remember sobbing,
. I was just sitting there and I was holding myself so tightly and [00:15:00] I
was just, hi me. Oh my goodness. I love you. Me. Where have you always been? I have no idea where you went.
And so in that experience, using that protocol, I'm so glad that I did cuz I did so much away from that and it was so beneficial because I think that I would've dove into something maybe a little bit more grander of the medicine experience or deeper of a medicine experience. I wouldn't really know how to navigate it.
Robyn: I'm so grateful we're having this conversation because I think there's so many people who have heard elements of what we're talking about, but they haven't really heard the whole picture and.
What to consider when or what kind of experience different psychedelics will most likely give you and this importance, which we're going to also continue to talk about, which is integration and making sure that if you choose to have one of these experiences that you're doing it in a very safe setting.
Torrie: Before we go
Karen: there Torrie how. It differ from a drug versus, , you call psychedelics medicine versus a drug.
And I [00:16:00] think in my mind, I always thought of the psychedelic as an actual, drug taking this to really get your mind to a place where it's escaping versus what it sounds like you're doing with your protocol and the way it's approached, it's really intentional. And it's taking someone through a very specific
Karen: you wanna come out of that experience feeling or knowing something different about yourself versus it just being at escape, Can you just talk just a little bit about the difference
Torrie: If we're using it as a recreational substance, not really putting intention and being mindful of set and setting or who we're sharing that space with, then it's a very fine line so we can easily. Press against the threshold of being a drug and being recreational. Why are you using these substances? Why are you using these compounds? Is it for escape? Is it because you don't want to acknowledge, the things that are happening in your life? Are you using them in conjunction with alcohol or in a party scene?
Those also have their, experiences that can be beneficial in a sense, but it's also not being used as [00:17:00] medicine. So oftentimes in this community, in the plant medicine community, you'll see a lot of people using the term quote, unquote medicine, and they're really just taking ketamine or they're taking LSD, or they're taking some type of substance to go into an event or party where it's not really being used in an intentional set and set of way, but the ego is very tricky.
So in that space, we can trick ourselves into saying, oh yes, this is medicine. So that way we feel better about what it is that we're consuming versus calling a chicken, a chicken, and that's okay, the chicken can be the chicken, it can still be a recreational use, but let's be clear about what we are using these compounds for and being very mindful of those terms of what is drug used for escape or a medicine, which is used with intention and reverence and honor, in order to get, insight or downloads or information about yourself or about the greater consciousness of the world or what we're a part of and what is in existence.
Karen: I think for anybody who had misconception before, and that just [00:18:00] totally clarifies.
Robyn: And are all psychedelics plant medicine.
Torrie: There's a very large percentage of psychedelics that are. Plants. So you have, The common psych, So Psilocybin, which is magic mushrooms. You have mesculin, which or San Pedro, or what's called, which is cactus.
Ayahuasca Amazonian, vine, and leaf T you have 5-MeO-DMT which is derived from the Bufo various toad of the Sonoran desert desert. Iboga is an African roots and bark of the, Iboga tree. So when you get into the synthetic versions, like Ibogain, Ibogain is actually the psychoactive found in iboga that can be extracted administered by itself within that molecular structure.
And so MDMA and MDA actually originate from the sassafras oil, which is extracted from sassafras plant itself, LSD and alkaloid found in ergot which is a fungus that grows on rye in other grains. Really the one pure synthetic ketamine. It acts as a psychoactive in small doses. And so we [00:19:00] refer to these all as plant medicine or medicine in general, where it's medicinal healing, properties and neurogenesis effects and all different psychedelics have their own molecular structure, giving them their own personality, if you will.
And so majority of them are derived from an existing plant in itself. Now the formation of them over the years have changed, Things get adjusted, things get changed, shifted a little bit, but majority of these medicines have derived from plants themselves. Thank
And I think leads perfectly to the next question, which is how do they work from a scientific perspective to help you achieve breakthroughs, whether it's physical or emotional.
Torrie: So Dr. Robin Carhart Harris, who's a psychologist and neuroscientist and head of the center for psychedelic research division of brain science, faculty of medicine at the Imperial college of London. These states that when we take psychedelics, there's an overall enhanced effect of plasticity and [00:20:00] describes this plasticity as the capacity for change and that ability to be molded.
So studies have shown that a single administration of a psychedelic produces rapid changes in brain plasticity on a molecular neuronal synaptic dendritic level. And so the expression of plasticity related genes and proteins is. Changing after single administration of psychedelics and that's ultimately resulting in change neuroplasticity and expansion of the brain rewiring in a sense.
So meaning that after a single administration of a psychedelic, these medicines are directly stimulating neurogenesis and an increasing genetic sequence of genes occurring in the brain for up to a month after treatment. So this is giving us the ability to change, to learn, to unlearn, to adapt differently, promoting increased brain function, providing healing to the psyche and ultimately changing the currently existing functions of the brain's default mode network.
And the default mode network is like the traffic cop determining incoming information to the brain based on previous [00:21:00] experiences. So previous pre-programming and default behaviors or default thought patterns. So for example, if I got bit by a German shepherd as a child, I may have preconceived fear responses and thought patterns about every German shepherd that I've encountered since that moment.
So when a German shepherd approaches me, I instinctively, I don't even have to think about it. I instinctively start to have a fear response and quickly decide to walk on the other side of the street. This is what's considered the default behavior or thought pattern that exists within us. And so many plant medicines contain a compound called tryptamine tryptamine is actually a compound party found in the human brain.
The tryptamine disrupt and diminish this normal default mode network activity causing a functional reset. And so we have these preconceived constructs and beliefs that were imprinted on us. As we grew throughout our childhood and continue into adulthood, we all have mothers and fathers, brothers, sisters.
The school, we attended the gender and variation of cultures and ethnicities in which we were exposed to, [00:22:00] which we are currently exposed to, our teachers, the sports we played or the sports, we didn't play our coaches, the books we read or continue to read. If we were attending college, our professions that we chose to go into what we watch on TV, who we chose and choose to spend time around are religious or spiritual beliefs
so all of these factors are contributing to the way in which we think the way in which we react the way in which we respond and it's dating all the way back to when we were in the womb your mother experiences a traumatic event during pregnancy, those high levels of cortisol that she's experiencing start to affect your brain patterns in her.
Your cellular function, as it is in state of anxiety or fear, it all becomes imprinted within our cells DNA. And just as we are, X percent likely to inherit breast cancer or high blood pressure of our grandmothers if they had it or if our mothers had it, we also carry the genes for all of it.
And so some are automatically activated where others are activated until later in life. So every aspect of life is [00:23:00] imprinting on us in one way or another. And this is why you hear some thought leaders speak about no free will, because we are already coming into this world with preconceived, already written codes within our minds and our bodies within, our computer, if you will, if you think of our psyche and our body as a computer.
So each plant medicine experience is like receiving a computer update. It adds upgrades, creating new and enhanced features. The computer is the same, but there's some reprogramming that has happened or occurred. And Michael Pollan during his book had to change your mind. He specifically wrote that the, myraid of new connections that spring up in the brain during the psychedelic experience as mapped by the neuro imaging done at Imperial college and the disintegration of well travelled oil connections may serve simply to shake the, and so Robert Carhartt Harris's phrase predicate for establishing pathways mental CA a Dutch post in the Imperial lab, she proposes a more extended snow metaphor.
So thinking of the brain as a hill covered in [00:24:00] snow and dots is sled sliding down that hill. As one sled, after another goes down the hill, a small number of main trails will appear in the snow. And every time a new sled goes down, it will be drawn into the preexisting trails, just like a. And those main trails represent the most well traveled neural connections in your brain.
Many of them passing through the default mode network and in time it becomes more and more difficult to glide down that hill on any other path or in a different direction. So you can think of psychedelics as temporarily flying. The deeply worn trails start to disappear and suddenly the slide can go in other directions, exploring new landscapes and literally creating new pathways.
When the snow is the freshest, the mind is the most impressionable and the slight is nudge. Whether that be from a song or an intention or therapist, suggestion can be powerfully. It can powerfully influence its future course in the way in which our current ways of thinking or behaving or reactions are.
And so it goes on to say that the therapeutic value of psychedelics and Carhart Harris' view [00:25:00] lies in their ability to temporarily. Elevate entropy in the inflexible brain. So it's jolting the system out of these default patterns. And so we know that there are these windows of heightened mental flexibility that open up for us during, and after the psychedelic experience where we become a little bit more malleable, a little bit more shapeable, it's opening windows of new opportunity and really giving us the ability to take advantage of those opportunities.
Karen: I love that snow analogy.
Torrie: It really broke it down to cuz of course,
Karen: if your brain is functioning the same way over and over again, it is hard to get out of those habits and behaviors. That was, really beautiful. The way you put that.
Torrie: Yeah. I also like to think of the mind and the body as a computer.
So with every plant medicine experience that you have. It's like you're downloading a new upgrade. You're hitting the restart button and you're getting to upgrade those new programs. And so every time that you restart the computer, there's something that's new. Whether that's, the mouse is a little different or it works a little bit better or works a little bit [00:26:00] differently.
And so every single experience that you have is just upgrading that computer system. The computer system within itself stays the same, but it continues to become upgraded.
Robyn: The analogy is so good and I'm so glad you highlighted that example as Karen said, the snow, so
These medicine experiences in the journey experience, the medicine itself shapes the snow globe and just allows this new, fresh blanket of snow to be laid before you now. You get to determine the new footsteps that are made in that snow. And that's where you get into the integration talk, which I'm sure we'll get into later.
And I think it's also very important to, to understand that the medicine, the plant medicines being used are really just one element. And it's really one element that is being introduced into our lives that has the ability to create capacity and change through its information that you receive.
So on, on a neurological level, it is creating neuro neurogenesis. It is creating neuroplasticity [00:27:00] and incrementally creating new neurological pathways in our brain to think differently, to behave differently. And it also has the ability to, like I said this senaptic charges and. Neurological charges that helps heal my back.
So it's happening on an incremental level, but it's also up to you to decide how far you want to take that. What that integration process is because these journey experiences, they can introduce the information, they can introduce the healing, but in order to have the sustainable healing, the sustainable change, nothing really changes if nothing really changes.
So we have to be able to take that information, to incorporate it into our day to day lives and really start to, make those patterns of changes within our own psyche and within our own behaviors. if I were to go into a journey experience and with the hopes that, I'm gonna quit smoking.
And I come out of that experience. And maybe for a couple of weeks, I'm feeling like, oh my gosh, that is really amazing. I don't have the urge, the [00:28:00] addictive, mindset, which I have around it. The addictive patterns of getting into my car and pulling out a cigarette that's gone. And then after two to three weeks, it starts to fade a little bit.
And then we have some type of trigger that happens in our work or within our family dynamic. And it's extremely stressful, which makes me want a cigarette, which makes me want to smoke. And so I have the opportunity within that moment to say, oh yeah, okay. I'm just gonna smoke and restart that pattern.
Or I can say no and start to introduce other modalities into my life that can reduce the side effects or symptoms and urges that addictive, mindset and property really gave.
Robyn: That's really helpful. And it leads actually to the next question, which is what are the most common uses of psychedelics and who are the best candidates for using psychedelics?
Torrie: So in my personal opinion, anyone can be a candidate for these medicines and also in the same breath, [00:29:00] those who are interested in experiencing these medicines really need to be aware of not only their capacity to heal, but also their capacity to disrupt.
So these default patterns that we're speaking about are deeply entrenched to visual patterns. Deeply entrenched behavioral patterns and thought patterns of both mind and body. So as psychedelics are also catalysts for change, they're also pattern disruptors, which is really helpful to initiate change.
And again, shaking that snow while creating that fresh blanket of snow. So it becomes a little easier to choose a new thought or to make a new choice. And this ultimately leads to a great unlearning or a deconditioning and deprogramming of the mind of the body, of everything that we have not thought to be known as real or true to our life's experience up until this point.
So being exposed to new ways of seeing thinking embodying updating the computer, if you will. So this process, [00:30:00] it can be jolting. It can be disorienting and it can be fragmenting because it is disrupting those patterns. So suddenly you are exposed to. A sexual abuse from your father at age four, that your psyche didn't even remember.
which you are now seeing that is linked to all kinds of mistrust that you have in men, or maybe other rooted masculine traits that you've carried throughout your life. And so I cannot stress enough how important it is to really prepare yourself for those possibilities to arise. So who can you talk to if they do?
Who can you share your experience with that will be able to guide you? What foundational skills do you have in your tool belt to assist you during and after that experience,
Robyn: just on that note, would you say that there's a certain age or there's a maturity level, you feel someone needs to be at?
So maybe it, I'm using age as one factor, Do you have an opinion on that?
Yeah. So in my opinion,
I think it comes down to, the skillset that you have. So the maturity level is [00:31:00] extremely important to understanding what's actually happening because we, as adults who have had, 40 years, 50 years of experience to dive into a medicine journey, we barely have the skills to understand, to cope to navigate those experiences while they're happening and afterwards.
And so there absolutely has to be that understanding of what you're getting into and the, the verbal recognition that you're willing to dive into those spaces. Because. you may approach the Dragon's mouth. Are you going to go in or are you not? And if you're working with somebody who is of a younger age that might not understand some of these experiences and being able to conceptualize them in a way that would be beneficial, it can be retraumatizing.
It can disrupt their ability to maneuver, to think, to, move forward in a sense, again, it can be jolting but then again, I have come across and had conversations with teenagers who are extremely depressed, who have extreme [00:32:00] anxiety, who. Have severe eating disorders and they really don't have any other option.
And so I have been asked by clients, if there are any programs or clinical trials or research that's currently happening with individuals who are below 18. And unfortunately I haven't come across anything quite yet. Cause I think the research is really being focused towards specific age groups, specific people with, PTSD, anxiety, OC depression, and ways in which it can be healing and beneficial for them.
And so I can see the ways in which it would be beneficial for teens. Who are really struggling. And
Robyn: hopefully with more research, I believe I would think that over time that will might change because we're seeing there's so many benefits if done in the right setting could be so helpful, which leads to talking about what are the common ways that psychedelics are being used.
Torrie: So common uses you have DMA. So the effects of DMA include anxiety relief disinhibition, enhanced empathy, [00:33:00] sociability skills, relaxation, euphoria, it's classified as Angen. So due to how it facilitates feelings of closeness with oneself and. These, researchers describe how American veterans and first responders who suffer from PTSD, showed improved conditions after undergoing DNA assisted psychotherapy over a substantial period of time, and to speak about, again the PTSD in which we can have throughout our life.
And through my experience, the N DMA experience that I had was so beneficial. And so if you do have somebody with such severe PTSD it's such a beneficial medicine to be introduced. To slowly enter into that space to, to be able to take a step back, be able to receive it through a different perception, to view it through a completely different lens
and have a guide standing there with you so that the first time that your ego has completely shut down, it's met with an openheartedness it's met with a little bit more reverence. It's met with a little bit more acceptance because the MDMA does [00:34:00] have that closeness does have that heart opening does have that euphoria of feeling, which can really help with those severe traumatic experiences that we have.
So it can be a great initiator of a medicine. For many people. You have ketamine, which assists with depression, anxiety. At high doses, it's an anesthetic. So it's used in operating rooms and at lower doses, it's considered a sub anesthetic. So they have positive and short lived effects and you'll see different ketamine clinics that are popping up throughout the country.
It's becoming extremely popular. They will meet with a clinician. They will go through an interview process, fill out a form, be able to list their cognitive skills where where they're at mentally, where they're at physically, where they're at medically. So the clinician will work with them in this intake form.
What medications are you on? And then they will start to put you on a regimen protocol alongside with the assisted talk therapy. So they take you through the experience from beginning to end and really start [00:35:00] to pay attention to, again, the mental capacity. You have your physical health, your.
Emotional health all of the coping skills in which you have and watching the progression of that as you go through this regimented protocol with them, psilocybin is a, current potential for many therapeutic of psilocybin assisted therapy. So alcohol dependence stimulant dependence, post traumatic stress disorder, generalized anxiety disorder obsessive compulsive disorder, cancer related depression, suicidal ideations, chronic pain.
A lot of people have what's called cluster suicide headaches, where it's just constant migraines over and over again. Borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, epilepsy, psychopathy. And so psilocybin actually has. A large range of benefits, which can be provided into that therapeutic space.
They're currently still doing tests with that in the clinical setting. But they're noticing so many healing benefits from that on such a [00:36:00] wide range, psychosis or health issues that exist we're seeing this enormous spike interest in psychedelics over the past 10 years, just due to the recent wave of the psychedelic research.
That's showing all the potent substances that have a wide range of therapeutic effects, psychospiritual benefits and helping to catalyze meaningful change in our lives.
And so you'll start to see, maps, the multidisciplinary association for psychedelic studies. They are really doing an incredible job of exposing the world to MDMA assisted therapy and ketamine assisted therapy.
Now, these are both synthetic molecules that are able to easily be administered. They're able to be easily. Research, the data that's collected on them is very consistent versus psilocybin versus mesculin. Even Ayahuasca where you have an entire range of experiences that can happen within those medicines.
Ketamine, you know what you're gonna get in response to data collection in DMA, you know what you're gonna get in response to data collection. Yeah. So if you take a [00:37:00] cookie cutter person with PTSD or depression, anxiety, and their age and their health status and physical health status, mental health status, the data that's collected from that is extremely easy for the clinician and to regimen to guide.
Whereas some of these other plant medicines, it's the role of the dice. What's going to show up
Robyn: I wanted to ask is if you could just briefly talk about microdosing versus macro dosing. Yeah.
Torrie: Within the experiences, there's the micro macro scale. So the microdosing being very small amounts of the psychedelic that is assisting with the incremental shifts in the neuroplasticity.
So it's helping to treat the depression or anxiety on a daily basis or also multiple times per week. So it's very small amount in which you are administering or ingesting on a weekly basis compared to the macro dosing, which consuming very large amounts of the psychedelic that put you in, expanded altered state of consciousness.
So the frequency of these experiences that will be determined [00:38:00] by the person it's not on a daily basis when you're doing the microdosing, it's really determined on the person, their integration process, their health status, mental status, coping skills,
Robyn: Would you say microdosing is being used more as an everyday type of aid, rather than the more profound experience that's going to introduce you to another part of yourself or help you release something with the macro dosing,
So the microdosing is really introducing that on a daily basis or multiple times per week. And you'll see a lot of people who are on antidepressants or anti-anxiety medications or other medications
and one beautiful aspect of microdosing is being able to work in conjunction with the current prescription beds that you're on.
And in getting that reduced on an incremental basis. Now I'm not a physician, nor am I a doctor in order to be able to prescribe people a regimen that would work for them in conjunction with their current. Antidepressants or anti-anxiety meds, but after a [00:39:00] while, you can start to play with that. So if you have a physician or know somebody who believes in these plant medicines and the benefits and the healing benefits in which they have, then you can start to really fluctuate and adjust the current scripts that you're on in order to slowly reduce that?
And what would it feel like? Who am I? A lot of my clients have no idea who they are without these medications. They have no idea what it's like to feel. They have no idea what it's like to not have grateful. And it's fascinating to me to be able to watch them go through their process of understanding, especially when they're introducing the microdosing to them.
You'll see more of a focus micro dose would be LSD and small doses. Psilocybin San Pedro can even microdose ICA CAPI line, and they all have their different modalities. They all have their different properties and molecular structure that has their own personality and different benefits.
And it's really about creating a relationship with that. So having that intention that's being set before [00:40:00] you do the microdose, because sometimes when you microdosing psilocybin and. You have high anxiety, it can really be a mirror for you to experience the depth of that anxiety. And so those experiences can happen.
We have such incredible intelligence to give you the experience that you need for your healing. And that is a benefit to you. And so it has this entire umbrella of various effects that can happen. So you introduce it into your day to day for eight weeks. And there's different microdosing protocols that you can find online too, through Paul's statements or Laura Don's website is really amazing. And. You really create an intention throughout the eight weeks, what's it that you desire?
What's it that you wanna learn and that you wanna know, and you start to create a relationship, say it is with the psilocybin. And throughout that eight weeks, then you can start to cross compare where you're at. If you have reduced medications that you're on and what it's like to feel in that space, can you start to remove some certain things from your diet or your med list, or, different things in your physical environment that aren't [00:41:00] bating you or being a benefit to you.
And so you can really start to adjust and on this very incredible incremental path versus a macro experience, which can be very in your face. Very explosive in a sense.
Karen: just learning. So much about just in, even in the tone of the way that you speak of these plant medicines overall about.
The care, the intelligence that they have to bring you to your real self and those of us who are studying spirituality know any kind of disease is showing up because it's something inside of your soul potentially.
And so it just feels so uplifting to hear you say that these medicines can get you to that place of really. Taking that step back of getting rid of that snow trail and remembering who you really are at your, and seeing that maybe even for the first time.
That visual that you gave us about your experience of really loving yourself for the first time. It sounds extreme, but it's an essence who we came in to be, [00:42:00] to remember to express.
And it's just such a beautiful thought that this experience can get you at least
Torrie: remember that, and then maybe even work your way back for that.
Robyn: Speaking of that, and talking about intentional journeys, can you talk a little bit more about if someone were to decide that they want to have an intentional journey, how they go about that and then talk about the integration that also should be a part of it so that it can be a real transformative experience for them?
Torrie: Yeah. If somebody is interested in working with psychedelics or plant based medicine in a intentional set and setting, there are so many offerings that are out there. Now you can go through clinical research or trials and apply for that to see if it's something that you can be a part of.
And there are also. Underground experiences in which you can find
it is extremely important to trust the person in which you are allowing [00:43:00] create that container and hold that space for you. You are in an extremely susceptible, raw, vulnerable space. And unfortunately, there are people out there who take advantage of that. And you even see this happening in, some of the south American countries with Ika because it's now become this really big star in the sky in which people are now raising eyebrows and ask some questions about.
And so you have somebody Google, Iowa Wasco retreats in Brazil, and there's 40 different retreats. How do you know which one to go. Some of those shamans who are over there are not in the best integrity. They're not at the best intentions they want monetary exchange. And so to think that everybody in the plant medicine path are extremely beautiful space floors, and that they care about your health and wellbeing.
It's to be blind. And just as in any aspect of life, there is the polarity of that. You do have the people who truly care, who are able to hold you intent in that space. And then you do have the people who believe that they can or are doing it out of integrity and with a completely different intent.
And [00:44:00] so it's really important for you to ask questions for you to receive a recommendation from someone that you know, has gone and experienced this retreat, or has gone and experienced this space holder, this medicine keeper. So that way you can go into that experience already knowing that this person that you spoke to.
Received a beautiful healing, safe container for you to have the experience that you're meant to have in the capacity in which you're meant to have it because you are in such a vulnerable space in that container, that it is very impressionable, extremely impressionable.
So it's really important to be able to vet your shaman, to be able to vet your space order and ask questions, talk to people, get on Reddit. There are. People in the ketamine clinics as well, who have gone to different retreats or have been different experiences or, even sending myself an email and asking, I would love to do X, Y, and Z.
What are your recommendations? And having some guidance within that. So that way you [00:45:00] are being safe, you are being mindful because if you aren't feeling safe in that space, you are not going to have the experience that you're meant to have. And the healing that you're meant to experience, because your mind is completely attached to the unsafe that is being created.
Robyn: And then can you talk about the role of an integration specialist? And How do you refer to
Torrie: yourself? Integration specialists. I reside in the house of healing and transformation helping people refind themselves figure your integration process is completely up to you.
And how far down that rabbit will you wanna go? An analogy that I often use is some people like to lay out next to the pool, other people like to float on a raft on the surface pool, and then others like to dive in, swim to the bottom, lift the filter and go all the way down the drain.
So the depth of your integration is completely up to you. Yes. These medicines are creating changes on a neurological level. However, they are not the shiny red pill that changes all. They are exposing you to new [00:46:00] realities and new potentials. New possibilities, exposing what needs to be healed and what needs to be addressed in your life.
So to think that, 40 years of life can be rewired and changed within five hours is to be blind to the work that is required outside of this. And these plant medicines are really only one element to assist us with that work. It does not do the work for us and it all it's ultimately up to you to acknowledge the experience, the information you received, and to try to understand how you integrate that information throughout your day to day, to create new thought patterns and new behavioral patterns.
So there's so much profound wisdom of these plant teachers and they offer so much clarity and insight and amplifying our self awareness to reorient what we really care about our lives. And our plant teachers, they can really illuminate the path before our feet, but they can't make you walk.
A hundred percent,
Karen: for anybody who has any kind of misperception of what medicine is, I think that your description was just so right on target because [00:47:00] it is one modality that can be very powerful, but it's just a door that you have to walk through and continue, like you just said on that path too integration.
Robyn: And how long would you say you typically work with somebody after they've had one of these experiences?
Torrie: I've worked with people for a few months and I've also worked with people for. A year and a half. And so it really depends on where you're at, what skills you have, how far you're willing to go, your trauma, your history, or belief, patterns that exist.
Ultimately it really depends on the person. And again, how far down that rabbit will you wanna go? Yeah. Are you comfortable with, are you comfortable with just saying okay I quit smoking or do you wanna go a little bit further and understand all the other addictive properties that are stemming towards that one thing where maybe it leads you into a A completely different experience, whether that would be. A past trauma or whether that would be experiencing God. So bufo variant. It's a [00:48:00] beautiful medicine. And the capacity for it. You look at IOSCO, which is between a six to eight hour experience. And then you have psilocybin, which is between a four to six hour experience.
And then you have bufo variant which is the five in DMT, which is really around a 30 to 40 minute experience. That is because when you smoke it's a secretion, from the bufo variant toad and so they crystallize that and you smoke it. And when you smoke it, you are launched into Christ's consciousness within a matter of seconds and our mind and body physically and energetically and emotionally can't sustain or withhold that intensity, that experience for.
Four to eight hours. It just can't. So it's too big. And so with that experience, it, again, it can be jolting, it can be completely jolting and disorienting. You can come out of those experiences really fragmented. You can start to question everything in your reality, everything that you have ever thought to be true has now changed because you are now just in the essence of Christ's [00:49:00] consciousness in with God fully.
And , so the amount of integration, it's really tailored to each person. I am still integrating my first experience from 2018, from the experience that I've shared. So I'm getting continue. Four years later, I continue to receive different understandings and different information. Cause I'm able to see.
It showed me my ex-partner walking on a tight rope towards the light. And at that moment I was like, oh, okay. So he's just balancing a lot. So it's, he's just balancing in life. And so now when I look at that, I have an entirely different perspective and entirely different viewpoint.
The lens has completely widened and I'm able to go, oh, I understand this affects X. This affects Y this affects Z. you're forever integrating these experiences. They don't go away. I've had people who, they've only had one psychedelic experience.
That was enough. And then I've had people who are complete psychos who go and do 22 iowaska ceremonies in two years. No way.
Robyn: [00:50:00] Wow.
Torrie: Wow. to, I just wanna ask
Karen: As a healer, which you are, which you have become through your journey, what does it mean to you to do this work? I can see closing your eyes and just savoring that question So tell
Torrie: us that's a really beautiful question.
It's being able to watch somebody and witness their experience unfold and be able to have these beautiful aha moments when they understand an aspect of themselves or, they find themselves for the first time and when you say healer, I don't consider myself a healer.
I consider myself to be in healing space and space of the house. Of healing transformation, because all I'm really doing is providing a safe space for you to be able to have that experience that you meant to have in the capacity that you're meant to have it. And whether that's through talk therapy or body work, or, breath, work and meditation.
Being able to assist you and watching you go through the movie real of your [00:51:00] own mind to have these greater understandings of self, these greater understandings of what you are part of and the amount of capacity of healing that exists within it. It's extremely beautiful to just witness and it doesn't place judgment or opinions or their own personal experience on the experience of life that you're having. Cause that might be the only time in their life in which they have ever actually been heard in which they actually had ever felt like themselves and what they're experiencing and what they're processing is real.
. And so it's this magical community of people that, that gets to be created, that you get to see just inspire one another and find themselves in each other finding themselves within themselves. And we think that we're meant to be in this space and we're supposed to do it all alone.
And a lot of what iowaska has taught me over the last couple of years is the impact and the power of group healing and so it's being able to truly [00:52:00] witness. Sometimes I'm just a sounding board and sometimes I'm like, okay, you're feeling anxiety.
Let's go through this mantra. Let's go through this meditation. Let's go through this rough work practice and see how that shifts and changes. Let's acknowledge what the body's currently experiencing. And then let's go through a meditation or breathwork practice or somatic experience that is allowing you to notice the shits and the changes from that heightened state of sympathetic nervous system response to a parasympathetic nervous system response.
And all I did was just prompt you, that you did the work, you got yourself there and you're capable of doing this. And so it's this really beautiful, powerful, mystical, and angelic space in which I just get to witness all these amazing, incredible transformations and people well,
Robyn: and you're having your own as well.
I think so much of this comes from you walking the walk and you also having these experiences and then integrating them and continuing to integrate, as you said, And you're doing that work so that you can be the Tory that you are meant to be [00:53:00] so you or helping others be the souls that they're meant to be and live the lives you're supposed to live in this lifetime.
That is such a
Torrie: gift. I dunno how I got so lucky to be in this space. It literally takes one by way and so it's just an incredible, I don't know how I got so fortunate, but I did. And I'm so blessed and so appreciative. you guys, the amount of magic that I get to see on a day to day basis is banana .
Karen: who gets to describe their
Torrie: day job?
Robyn: Yeah. I feel that from you, I feel that from you and I know we're so grateful to have been connected to you and for you to take the time and share all of this wisdom, in a space that I know that Karen and I talk about all the time, that feels like you don't know who to trust when it comes to understanding and really laying things out.
And we were led to you. No doubt, divinely. So that you could share this wisdom that you've acquired and through your experiences and through your work [00:54:00] with everybody listening today, and hopefully inspiring people to research more, potentially reach out to you and, or look for other trusted resources in order to potentially experiencing one of these plant medicines so that they themselves can have their own transformation.
So thank you.
Torrie: Thank you. It's amazing opportunity. I just
Karen: feel like you radiate this joy. I wish everybody could see you. It's so it's inspiring.
Robyn: what is the best way for someone who might have other questions or potentially would want to work with you or someone that you recommend, how should they contact you?
Torrie: they can just go to the se review. And my email address is listed there. And so the website is being developed, but we will go ahead and include a portion on there so way any questions that somebody might have, they can reach out directly through there. I can also give my email address for the.com.
So [00:55:00] that way it goes straight into that inbox and we can start guiding and answering any questions.
Robyn: Wonderful. And we'll have the website listed in our show notes. So for anyone listening, you can go there and you can find the information and reach out to Tori from there. Thank you so much, Tori.
Karen: Thank you. So much
Torrie: We're only scratching surface. Yes. And how powerful is it? It's so true. women are uniting. We're bringing all this information forward and exposing our truth, then our stories, we need our eyes to see, we need our ears to hear, we need our voices to tell our stories because they are so important for other people to recognize and understand in order to start asking questions and to really dive deeper into the sense of self in order to dive deeper into that soul growth, thirst, spiritual aspect, in essence, in which we are so removed from so thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.