This week, Karen gets the honor of introducing you to her mother Lo Anne Mayer. Not only is Lo Anne a trailblazer healer who has studied and practiced many healing modalities for over 30 years, she’s an author, teacher, and intuitive counselor who has impacted thousands with her wisdom, guidance and positivity.
She’s here to tell you about her journey from grief to gratitude, and how she has used “transpersonal journaling” as a tool for not only healing her relationship with her daughter and Grandmother, but helping others learn that you can always communicate with your loved ones on the other side.
Raising her six children was the catalyst for her learning new ways of spiritual, physical and emotional healing. And in doing so, she became an expert in nutrition, charismatic healing, therapeutic touch, meditation, and understanding the mind-body connection. (And that was back in the 1970’s, before the resources of many books or the internet were available for guidance)
Lo Anne’s lifelong spiritual quest has created an impressive resume, studying and learning from some of the leading spiritual leaders of our time, including Louise Hay, founder of Hay House. Lo Anne went on to became a certified teacher of the “Heal Your Life” course, which she also taught for twelve years.
Lo Anne's work didn’t stop there! She’s become a Reiki Master, teacher of “Angel Meditation,” and created her own course called, “Choosing Joy: How to Create a Joy-filled Life.” She produced and hosted a TV show called “Angels at Work,” which emphasized the good works of ordinary people. (Yep, TV show…trailblazer).
Perhaps her most important work of all was publishing her book, "Celestial Conversations: Healing Relationships after Death." Lo Anne shares the story of what led her to write this book as a way to work through her grief and her process for helping others find peace and healing. She'll give you the steps so that you can try it yourself.
We're so excited to share LoAnne's incomparable wisdom with everyone!
You can check out her book and meditation at https://celestialconversations.com/
You can purchase her book: https://www.amazon.com/Celestial-Conversations-Healing-Relationships-After/dp/193912901X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369014628&sr=8-1&keywords=celestial+conversations
[00:00:00] Karen: I
[00:00:00] get the honor of introducing you all to Loanne Mayer. Not only is Loanne trailblazer. Healer was studied and practice many healing modalities. Over 30 years. She's an author, teacher and intuitive counselor who has impacted thousands with her wisdom, guidance, and positivity.
[00:00:17] Loanne is also my incredible mom mentor and human soul guide who has taught and inspired me in everything I know.
[00:00:24] She's here to tell us about her journey from grief to gratitude
[00:00:27] and how does this use trans personal journaling
[00:00:30] as a tool for not only healing her relationship with my sister and grandmother, but helping others learn that we can always communicate with our loved ones on the other side, As she will tell you raising her six children was the catalyst for learning new ways of spiritual, physical, and emotional healing.
[00:00:45] And in doing so, she became an expert in nutrition, charismatic healing, therapeutic touch meditation, and understanding the mind body connection.
[00:00:53] and that was back in the 1970s before
[00:00:55] the resources of many books or the internet were available
[00:00:58] for that.
[00:00:59] Lo Ann's [00:01:00] lifelong spiritual quest has created an impressive resume studying and learning from some of the leading spiritual leaders of our time, including Louise hay, founder of hay house, lo anne went on to become a certified teacher of the heal, your life course, which is also taught for 12 years. But of course, being Loanne her worked in stop there she's become a Reiki master teacher of angel meditation and created our own course called choosing joy.
[00:01:23] How to create a joy filled life. She produced and hosted a TV show called angels at work, which emphasized the good works of
[00:01:30] ordinary people.
[00:01:31] Yep. TV show trailblazer, but perhaps your most important work of all was publishing her book, celestial conversations, healing relationships after death
[00:01:39] Loanne will, and we'll share the story of what led her to write this book as a way to work through her grief and her process for helping others find peace and healing. So welcome mom,
[00:01:50] and how lovely it is to be with both of you. You're just, you're my heroes. So it's just so wonderful to be on the same page with you.
[00:01:57] Be interviewed by yous and thank you for [00:02:00] inviting. Well, we love
[00:02:01] it. we've referred to you like all the time on our
[00:02:05] Well, that's, my mother would say, right, your life is just an example of really being a seeker in action. And really, as I said before, doing at a time when, there wasn't really a community out there, you had to really do it on your own.
[00:02:18] And so you really lived the process. You walked the walk and I think you infused all of us, me, especially with your wisdom and your openness to always learning and to always exploring more. So.
[00:02:30] Loanne: Thank you for that.
[00:02:31] Robyn: Thank you for that. I thank you
[00:02:34] Loanne: as I was just saying before we
[00:02:36] Robyn: got started, because of all that you've infused and to Karen she's now infused that into me, which I pass along to my family, we are passing it along on a daily and weekly basis to whomever we're talking to as well as on the podcast.
[00:02:51] So you, have really blazed the trail and thank you for, for all that you continue to do.
[00:02:56] Loanne: You're making my day girls
[00:02:58] Karen: well,
[00:02:58] Loanne: so much
[00:02:59] Karen: to talk about. And so [00:03:00] many questions I want to say, just to tag onto what Robin was just saying. one theory that we have about just the world that we're living in today is that a lot of the spiritual yearning, lot of the spiritual seeking that's taking place now really comes from, people from the generations ahead of us, really, who helped your.
[00:03:18] Information into life and into practice and who had the courage really to explore all of these modalities and practices that have always been around, but might not have been mainstream because of a lot of religious beliefs and a lot of other reasons I want
[00:03:33] Loanne: to just start with you
[00:03:34] Karen: talking a little bit about where it started in my childhood.
[00:03:37] You took us, as I said, six kids. So there was lots of
[00:03:40] Loanne: opportunities for spiritual seeking all through that time, but
[00:03:43] Karen: you took us to nutritionist, astrologers, chiropractors, kinesiologists. When, you know, none of that was mainstream and really was kind of downright weird, especially for us kids who had to explain it to others.
[00:03:56] What was it that started you down that path of really [00:04:00] exploring alternative spirituality modalities? Back
[00:04:04] Loanne: then, Well I think it was at the time, I think it was a thirst to help the children that the medical deities at the time were not helping the religious programs, which I was very much involved with were not helping.
[00:04:16] And so we started looking for other alternatives, but I have to give credit to your grandmother, my mother, who was always the one, bringing home gypsies and astrologers and things like that. And saying, here you take that and then she would run and I'd go to confession
[00:04:31] And a lot of it was your grandmother who was so interested in studied so much the opportunities of people to learn from others. she was a researcher at heart. I think she probably was of the age that she would have been a great she would've been great in college and she never got that opportunity, but she did helped me find all these different people.
[00:04:50] I would ask, I need a nutritionist. I need someone to help me, she was the one that started us on astrology. I'll never forget the day that she came in and I'm [00:05:00] very Catholic for the world to know. And my mother came in and brought me my 33rd birthday present, which was a tape of an astrologer who was talking about me for an hour.
[00:05:11] And my reaction that she was so right on my she's scared me to death for one thing, She also made me worry about my mother as my mother was a daily communicant. I thought she's really gone over the rail. what in the world has happened to her and, I thought at the time, and I'm sure a lot of people who've never had astrology.
[00:05:30] I felt that my mother had fed her a lot of information. But then my husband's birthday was three days later. And so here comes mom again with the little tape, and this lady gave an astrology chart on my husband that just blew me out of the water. And I knew my mother didn't know any of that stuff.
[00:05:47] So it opened my mind to the possibility that there was more to that. And it was really hard because in the Catholic church at the time, And maybe still in some places it was revoked to touch anything to do with [00:06:00] astrology. so I hid it from the children when they finally got there, it was in the closet, until they were old enough to look at it.
[00:06:05] But over the years the thirst for knowing more and not being able to find it where you're looking for it, it's really what you're doing. It's a seek thinking. And I was lucky enough to have someone who would do the research and do the seeking give it to me and then say you deal with it.
[00:06:21] And, and it was a great partnership. I didn't know it at the time, but it was great. And it helped me a lot. And then of course we kept meeting people like Bishop sheen and people that, came into our lives that we would invite to the house. So there was a real crosscurrent of religion and cultural exchange.
[00:06:36] And it was wonderful for us at the time, but it might've been a little confusing for the kids. I'm not sure. How's it. Karen,
[00:06:42] Karen: I love to tell the story about how we would sit At the dining room table. And we would have my dad's brothers who had benedictine on one end and then you'd have Maya who was
[00:06:51] Loanne: some sort of past life,
[00:06:53] Karen: gypsy visionary person, on the other, having these incredible debates about religion and [00:07:00] spirituality and how fascinating it was to see it from those perspectives.
[00:07:03] Loanne: loved it. I think, infused me,
[00:07:05] Karen: with more questions. Fortunately, you started us out with the books the people that we talk to say, yeah, I was that person in the back of the bookstore, when they put all those, those weird books on astrology and everything else, that's where they went to their information and you, and grandma pulled out the enter Casey and eventually the Louise hay books and all of, those great books that really inspired
[00:07:25] Loanne: me to learn well, and
[00:07:27] Robyn: actually just talking about that, Loanne
[00:07:29] One of the questions that I would have is this woman that Karen just mentioned, that was somewhat of a past, like sort sphere. Did she ever say that you and your mother were doing any of this work
[00:07:41] Loanne: and passed the lives?
[00:07:43] several different people over the years had said that my mother was the teacher and I was the student, or I was the teacher and she was the student. And she was a tough teacher. But it was also it was at the time because of so many children and the are kid Edgar Casey's place was a great help to me because I was [00:08:00] running my own daycare center if you know what I mean.
[00:08:02] So I couldn't even get to the grocery store to let alone the when you were a member and you still is true with Edgar Cayce's center, you can send away for information about. So I was able to do by mail what some other people did bond the library, and it helped a lot.
[00:08:17] Cause it took a long time for me to absorb some of the things that were being put in front of me because I was very traditional Catholic and I still am Catholic, but I realized as I looked, I got older that a lot of the Catholicism that I knew was really in the church long before and then had been shut down.
[00:08:36] So I find that at that point in time, mother was the conduit and then we would meet people for no reason whatsoever people that would come into our lives, who were actually wonderful teachers like Janeane, who came in another gypsy that came to visit us. If you remember. Yeah. I'm trying to remember explain
[00:08:53] Karen: a little bit about
[00:08:53] Loanne: Jeanette came from North Carolina. She was a, person who did re. And in North Carolina at the time, we're [00:09:00] going back to the eighties. It was really not acceptable. And her family came from Palm beach and they did not like what she was doing. Anyway, she came and she stayed with us and did a lot of readings.
[00:09:11] And so we had all kinds of wonderful people coming in and out in between the priests and the novices and things like that. Wow. Well, always
[00:09:18] Robyn: remember Karen talking about the astrologer that you mentioned, who did do readings on all of your children.
[00:09:25] Loanne: And she had read Karen and Karen says she still remembers
[00:09:29] Robyn: that she told her what kind of business she was going to go into and all of that.
[00:09:34] And that really opened a door for you, Karen, right?
[00:09:37] Karen: It did. I was 12 or 13, I got my little tape played for me. And it was the same mind blowing experience. Now it's still young,
[00:09:45] Loanne: very young at the time, but it was an integral.
[00:09:48] Karen: Crossroads really of my life when I was starting to toy with all these ideas of what I wanted to do and be my life.
[00:09:53] it was so interesting that she was describing
[00:09:56] Loanne: what I would be doing, but there weren't the words for it yet. [00:10:00] So there wasn't the job.
[00:10:01] Karen: She clearly saw that I was going into media, but she talked about it being science and nutrition and things like that, now in retrospect, I know for sure
[00:10:09] Loanne: that she pulled right out of the chart
[00:10:11] Karen: and it was, it was a really in depth overview of not just, who I was potentially as a Leo, but really getting into all of the opportunity that I could explore. And at that stage of my life, Well,
[00:10:23] Loanne: I also think she brought up something that I don't think any of us really comprehend it at the time, but I do now having the 13 grandkids is that we all come in with gifts and talents.
[00:10:33] And if we're put into a situation, as you were at the time in a Catholic school was sister Berenice was so sure, you would think a great nun. Do you remember that? Oh gosh. And it was, and it was very obvious that you like to teach, which you're still doing of course, but having the gifts and talents were her specialty and she said, it's such a shame. If you come in with these gifts and talents and you have to wait like grandma Moses did till she was 82 till start painting, which she had as [00:11:00] a gift as a child, And one of the wonderful things about astrology I believe is that they can help you understand that you have gifts and talents, even if you don't know what to do with them to be alert to them.
[00:11:10] And it did make me more alert. we had several tapes of six kids, it gave me the opportunity to stop looking at my children as a group. I look at them as individuals, and that was really very important at the time because I had six children in 12 years. So they were all in a group and it was very easy to say, well, the parent does this and Cindy will do that, whatever.
[00:11:32] would recommend to any mother to find out the astrology chart of their child quickly.
[00:11:37] Robyn: That's good advice,
[00:11:39] It is really a gift
[00:11:41] Loanne: the whole spirituality world is very fearful for some people. Janeane used to say something that I thought was very interesting. She'd say have a lot of light and you girls have a lot of light.
[00:11:50] And she said, you have to remember that when you pull people out of the dark and cave into the light, it hurts their eyes. And so sometimes they [00:12:00] just Chuck the whole thing because it's too scary. And it doesn't matter whether it's religion or it's cultural or whatever. So being gentle and giving the people the information they need or helping them find their own way.
[00:12:11] It's a wonderful gift that you're giving to the people who are watching the Seeking Center
[00:12:16] Robyn: that's such
[00:12:16] Loanne: a good analogy. Yeah.
[00:12:18] Karen: Talk a minute, mom, about your balancing of spirituality and religion.
[00:12:23] Loanne: How
[00:12:23] Karen: did you balance that in your mind and what made you feel open enough to, to incorporate both worlds into your life?
[00:12:30] Loanne: I don't think I would've done it. If it weren't for you. Because the answers weren't in the church, just like the answers weren't in the medical world. I don't think I would have been brave enough to do it just for myself, but I do feel like there was a time there was a Vatican two came out and there was a lot of opening of the doors in the church.
[00:12:48] And it made me feel that the church in general was being more open. But I think having these people, these individual people come to me and give me their honest opinion of what was going on, helped me to [00:13:00] look inside because for instance reincarnation for me, it took me 20 years to even begin to fathom that that was a possibility.
[00:13:07] Whereas for you, it's a piece of cake, right. But for me, the foundation was there and it still is. And I treasure my faith, but my feeling is that the foundation for me was like the foundation for you all learning to drive.
[00:13:20] I learned to drive and I can choose to drive at 80 miles an hour if I walk to. But the other side of it is that the spirit, the religion of this world in my lifetime, particularly in the Catholic church, they've lost the connection with the people. And so it makes it very difficult.
[00:13:35] I'm not familiar with all the other religions, but it just feels to me like. That they have lost that connection and that interaction that we had as a child, we were very nurtured by the church when we were young. And I think that was a good thing for me. Probably I would have run away if I didn't have that, because you had to stay with your family,
[00:13:54] no matter how bad it got. So my point of view is that you had to start looking for other [00:14:00] alternatives and the spirituality to me, it's like the church it's like a garden, the church of the roses. And then there's a garden, a beautiful flower. So, lovely flowers that make up the garden of spirituality and the church at the time would only let you look at the roses.
[00:14:15] And that wasn't enough for.
[00:14:16] Robyn: Well, thank you for explaining that, because I think there are some people who are deeply religious and feel like, they are doing something wrong by, looking at spirituality in a different way or these other alternatives. And so I think what you're saying and what we believe is there is certainly a way to balance both and have foot in both worlds.
[00:14:37] Loanne: Well, it's like you have the foot in your house and then there's the whole world. Yes. And unfortunately, a lot of people are afraid to leave their house. They're afraid. And then they're told that they're wrong when they do. I didn't have that. I didn't have that. We had in the family, we had two of them.
[00:14:52] Priests and the fan of Benedictans and we would have many conversations about that. And then the opportunity to meet and be friends with [00:15:00] Bishop sheen gave me a chance to ask questions about things that I didn't know about at the time biblically speaking. But it all made sense. Once I felt that the children were getting the help that they needed, and that was all that mattered.
[00:15:11] That was all there was to it. Just to clarify
[00:15:13] Karen: too, about Bishop sheen of people don't know who he was. He was a pretty famous guy back in the day, a Bishop with a TV show and he was very inspirational, very charismatic.
[00:15:23] Loanne: he hand picked you out of a crowd. When
[00:15:25] Karen: he was at a church function at my grandmother's church, of course,
[00:15:32] he knew you really had a kinship over, over many, many years. And I think he taught you a lot and I think it's because
[00:15:39] Loanne: there was a recognition. There was definitely a recognition. Yes, there still is. There still is. I'm sure had lives together, but for me it was very helpful because you had someone who was world renowned as a speaker and a teacher.
[00:15:51] And he would take time to explain to me certain things that I needed to know. And I felt that connection made me connected to the [00:16:00] church still, but he was so international that I realized that I didn't have to follow what sister Mary Catherine taught me in the first grade in. So in terms of your own life, then,
[00:16:10] Karen: I mean, so much of your early life is dedicated obviously to these six children.
[00:16:14] But I do want to add that we all did a double-take when you decided to pack your suitcase and head to the west coast to study with Louise hay, who now many known started hay house, which really was the very beginning, of new age and
[00:16:29] all sorts of spiritual
[00:16:31] thinking and learning really. It became a place where people could learn and learn from each other and learn from these renowned teachers.
[00:16:37] That was a turning
[00:16:38] point for you. What was
[00:16:40] Loanne: that exactly? Where did that come from? Well, I had her book, you can heal your life. I still think it's the best book she ever wrote. It's the first book she ever wrote. And I just spoke to me in such a way that I really wanted to learn more.
[00:16:52] And the reason I went to California is that I didn't know a single. In Chatham township or anywhere in my neighborhood who would be able to speak that [00:17:00] language. And there was a conference in 1989 that decided to go to because there really, it was that seeking thing. I needed to know that there were other people like me.
[00:17:10] And it was a turning point because when I got there, there were like 200 people at the conference and it was like, oh my goodness, they could all be my friends. They all speak my language. And so when I left, I just grabbed the syllabus to teach the course, which I had no intention of doing at all, but it made such a profound difference in my life that I was open to the possibility of teaching it.
[00:17:33] I learned a great deal in those 12 years of teaching that class. And it, it has to this day, I go back to it for the affirmation. So I pulled out that book all the time.
[00:17:42] And I found that those people were beginning to break the glass ceiling of what we were allowed to know from a metaphysical point of view I loved every minute. I love
[00:17:52] Karen: how you said break the glass ceiling.
[00:17:54] That's so interesting, but it is, it's really true. We just talked to someone yesterday who said that she went to a [00:18:00] different Louise hay conference impact on her. So clearly that's a place for opening up
[00:18:06] Loanne: of possibility. And I would like to add that one of the things about Louise, you should pass on and you, you girls know this well, Louise never started her work till she was 50 years old.
[00:18:16] Robyn: It's a great reminder.
[00:18:17] I'm glad you said that. That's a whole new chapter for so many people,
[00:18:21] Loanne: Oh my gosh. That's so true.
[00:18:22] So should we talk about
[00:18:23] Robyn: your book al conversations, which I read several years ago and I still think
[00:18:29] Loanne: about it all the time,
[00:18:30] Robyn: such a powerful book. And I really hope that people . Go and buy it on Amazon I learned a lot and to apply in my own life.
[00:18:39] And I also love
[00:18:40] Loanne: your story.
[00:18:41] Loanne: How did the book come into being,
[00:18:42] the reason for the book of course came about because my mother had died in 2005. And my daughter, Cindy died in 2005 and it was a lot of grief, a lot of post-traumatic stress. And so even though I was going to compassionate friends, which I highly recommend to any of your audience, who's lost a [00:19:00] child.
[00:19:00] I went to a grief counselor for a couple of years. And in the process of that, I had been journaling. And in that journaling book, I had learned to do something that had actually been taught many years before to quiet my mind and to meditate. Meditation has been with me for many, many years, and I highly recommend that as well to anyone, but I wanted to just get clear in my mind what was going on.
[00:19:25] And the beginning of the the book is really the catalyst is my mother, because even though my mother was a teacher, she was not a communicator to me anyway, a lot of what I was trying to fathom in my mind is why we could not connect in our lifetime in an intimate way. And I was a hospice volunteer at the time.
[00:19:43] And so one of my hospice friends said to me, you really should journal,, get it out of your head, put it on paper. And then the next thing that happened was the grief counselor said to me you really should journal. So that started me in the journaling idea, which is not easy to do. Did you remember?
[00:19:58] I had six kids at home, so they were [00:20:00] get them out of the house so I could do this. But what I, decided to do was to ask for to pray, which is my comfort level, and then to meditate and then to write in the beginning to my mother letters, to my. And the idea was to do with the hospice person said, get it out of your head and put it on paper.
[00:20:16] But the second time that I wrote down, I was writing like you would write anybody, dear mom, but instead I wrote dear Loanne and I remember stopping because it was written the way my mother used to write my name. I've written L O capital a N N E for many, many years, as long as I can remember, she always wrote L O a N N E.
[00:20:37] And when I wrote that, I thought there was a feeling there was something that was going on, but I continued to write. And in the process of that first letter, which is in the book, my mother, typical of my mother said, I've been trying to get in touch with you for a long time. And you know, you're finally got an idea that I can write to you.
[00:20:54] Okay. So this is a good idea. We should. That's just paraphrasing, but I remember writing all [00:21:00] those things down word for word and thinking what just happened there? this does not fit in the life of the, the way I envisioned it. And so I spent probably four or five months every morning saying a prayer meditating, and then working on writing to my mother too.
[00:21:16] I got so much information from her. It was as if he were emailing today, it was so perfect and so helpful to the point that my husband actually said to her. When you talk about your mom, you don't talk about her the same way as you. How
[00:21:28] Robyn: long was this
[00:21:29] Loanne: after she passed away a year after.
[00:21:31] And so I kept doing this. I told Ray, I don't think I told any of the kids until later on, but then of course Cindy died suddenly and tragically. And unfortunately I couldn't figure out what happened. And so I went back to my journal and I asked my mother had happened. And in the process of receiving her information, Cindy jumped into the letter and you can't imagine how freaked out I was about that.
[00:21:56] And here I'm dressed to go to the, to the wake. And it was like, what is going on [00:22:00] here? Because it was so foreign to me that I just didn't know what to do, but eventually I kept writing. I have to this day, like 15 journals, I still write to both of them. And I find that at that point in time, it was so healing to me to ask a question of my mother and ask.
[00:22:17] What happened to Cindy that I thought, what? this is going to be good. This is good for me. This is my way of healing. But I told my grief counselor. And she said to me, when you write your book, I want it. I have a number of clients who would really benefit from this. And so that's what started the book.
[00:22:34] And then I, a lady came into my life who was an editor who says her words review, write the damn book, I'll edit it. so I wrote it just the way you see it, except for a few things that were taken out legally speaking. But it was so helpful to me that I was so glad at the end of it, that I actually wrote the book and it was published.
[00:22:54] And I got some lovely compliments from different people, but I thought that was it. You write a book [00:23:00] and that's the. But then it was no, no, no, no. You have to do workshops. People want to learn how to do this so for 10 years prior to COVID I went around the country and I taught other people how to do it.
[00:23:10] And I learned so much because there were people doing it on computers. I was writing pen to paper. There were people who were sitting outside and found that the way they can connect and to watch their faces of letting go of all this stuff that they had carried on with their family, which I knew so well, it has been an absolute joy for me to be able to see that that has been around the world actually.
[00:23:34] And the question I always used to ask the editor was, who's kind of read this anyway. I know now people read it. And those of you were thinking about a book. I really encourage you write it anyway, even if you've never published it because. It has given me such joy to help other parents, other mothers who have lost a child in Iraq or in Romania or in Ukraine.
[00:23:53] There's a way to be able to reach out beyond the veil that is so comforting to a mom to know what happened. And [00:24:00] I still remind
[00:24:01] Robyn: everybody listening that we're talking about trans personal journaling. I know we said that at the beginning, but I just want to remind everyone what it's
[00:24:08] Loanne: called and that everybody can do it.
[00:24:10] Absolutely. And you might want to know what the meaning of transpersonal is. A lot of people ask me that transpersonal, there is an organization called the association of transpersonal psychology. It is the spiritual end of psychology and. there are a lot of different universities that are teaching masters in that right now, but the transpersonal spoke to me because it really was about this person.
[00:24:34] This was coming down to me and I was taking dictation. I would write. And then I would write the answers. And for me it was transpersonal. So that's the reason I called it transpersonal. And it seems to fit when people do the workshops, they say it fits perfectly. And it's actually a thing though now,
[00:24:51] Karen: I mean, it really is a word that is used by psychologists and teachers.
[00:24:55] Loanne: Right? Well, as I say, there is a whole section of psychology that is [00:25:00] transpersonal psychology. It's not as well-known as the other kinds of psychology, but it is growing. And I think if I have time, if I can fit it in my schedule, I would love to go back and get a master's in transpersonal psychology, because it talks about, the old days, people who saw visions or who saw maybe you who knows, were burned at the stake or given medication to a prison, , that sort of thing.
[00:25:24] And transpersonal psychology is about. What that is about that is the spiritual connection that people try to put away. and right now I think it's going to blossom more and more and more around the world because everybody is having these experiences. Now, everybody, it feels like
[00:25:39] Robyn: a marriage between science and spirituality.
[00:25:43] The podcast that we posted this week was with this woman who, that her book is called in the presence of proof, because it's that idea of how do you prove some of these things, what does that look like?
[00:25:54] What does proof look like?
[00:25:55] Loanne: And it's interesting, only the people that need the proof or the disbelievers, the ones that know [00:26:00] don't need the proof. So true. Yes. And I was
[00:26:02] Karen: going to ask you that mom, when you teach the class, or even when you experienced this firsthand yourself, did you have doubt when you first started writing that this wasn't just your subconscious really conjuring up this conversation?
[00:26:15] how did you come to feeling like you knew that this was a real connection?
[00:26:19] Loanne: Well, first of all, I was exploring, for six months, I didn't tell anybody anything, but what I was thinking is I'm getting information.
[00:26:26] So there was certain little hits that would happen that I could prove. For instance, your grandmother was on 26 medications at the time that she died. I did not know. She was in a facility for a continuing care. but I could ask for the doctor to give me the, the health reports of my mother and there was 26 medications.
[00:26:47] So then things would happen I would write and then I would think, oh, I wonder then something would happen. One time. I remember specifically, Cindy talked about a woman I was very frustrated because I couldn't get to my [00:27:00] grandchildren because of the difficulties around Cindy's death.
[00:27:02] And I was feeling like grandmother's is supposed to hug their children. This is just not right. And one of the things that Cindy wrote to me is that there was a woman who was really good to my autistic grandson and that her exact words, mom, you're not the only one that loves. Wow. Didn't want to hear that.
[00:27:18] Didn't want to write that, but I did write it. And then a week later I was at a women's meeting and there was a lady in the living room who said to me, which to cross my coffee table and said, Hey, did you hear that my son-in-law was getting married? And I hear that the lady that he's marrying really, really loves Ryan.
[00:27:36] So there was the words that were in my book came back. So did I have doubts many times, but I couldn't resist asking. And then when I got the information, I would try it out. there was just no way not to do it.
[00:27:47] Robyn: I know we've talked about this a while ago, I'm so curious because when you are talking to and communicating with your daughter, Cindy, I feel like you were able to receive answers to [00:28:00] some other questions that were really very upsetting and things that you needed.
[00:28:04] Some more clarity on you also told me that you feel that Cindy, her soul has come back. Can you
[00:28:11] Loanne: talk about that for a moment? Yes. that was really hard for me. Did I mention.
[00:28:18] Really hard When I was able to start a journal with Cindy, she came back and we got lots of things cleared up that I was happy to hear about. And some, I was very sad to hear about, but it was good information for me and the education.
[00:28:31] So my feeling about Cindy was she and my mother were in the same place, wherever that place is on the other side, it turns out not. So one of the things that Cindy talked about constantly was how she, she wanted to get back because the world needed her to be back and that she had somehow forgotten that, and that now she knew, and she wanted to give.
[00:28:52] And with a little bit, I know about life after death is that there always seems to be a period of time when people are take [00:29:00] time to assess themselves, or they have people helping them or angels helping them assess. I was very uneasy about that. And then finally, Cindy, in her notes said to me that she was coming back, period.
[00:29:12] Well, she had gone to all the people, she knew what she was doing. So I went back to my mother, my good Catholic mother who would say, don't do that. Right. And she said it to me, it would be very harsh. but she said, no, she needs to do this she needs to come back. And she did. And I actually couldn't write to her for probably, I don't know, three months.
[00:29:29] Cause I kept thinking, well, what does that make me? Will I not be her mother anymore? Well, she, yeah. And so she allowed me to write with her in. Wow. It was so fascinating to me that she would tell me what she was feeling and how many times we do this, how many times we come back and we forget that.
[00:29:50] And then what it was like when she was born and how frustrating it is to be unable to get your message across to the people. Even though your soul really [00:30:00] remembered things, it was such an education. And particularly, I had five more grandchildren after this and it really made me look at the grandchildren in a total different way than I had with my children and the previous grandchildren.
[00:30:11] But it still made me feel like, where do I fit in this way? So what she told me, which has helped me so much, and she said, mom, think about this as a website, love as the website, we had wonderful love together and you go to my website and I'm like, And just like you are with Karen or with, with Raymond she said, it's the same thing.
[00:30:31] It's the love that holds us together. And you can come, I can come back and forth to you anytime I want. And so we did and went to the whole process. She's probably now as I figure maybe 14 years old, maybe 13. And she handpicked the grandparents and the parents and where she wanted to be.
[00:30:50] And she has an agenda of what she wants to do and this life. And it's not for me to say, I don't get a vote. I never got a vote with my kids anyway, just for the record,
[00:30:59] [00:31:00] because I have the
[00:31:02] Robyn: chills because that is such a powerful story. And it's also, such a lesson for all of us who are in this lifetime and. Who may have lost somebody and surely what feels very prematurely and understanding what their mission is and what their purpose is. and being open to
[00:31:23] Loanne: understanding and the souls of the mother and the child, whether that child is alive or dead or still very connected.
[00:31:30] And I think that love connection to me, it just, it gave me such freedom to say, okay, okay, now I can continue you. And I did. And I do. Yes.
[00:31:39] Karen: I was going to ask about the relationship between you and your mother and my grandmother and you and Cindy,
[00:31:46] Loanne: how did it change through this writing? How did your relationship change and also did, you get the insight,
[00:31:53] Karen: What your soul contract was with each other as a result Of reading all of these letters
[00:31:58] Loanne: and going through these conversations. Well, [00:32:00] let's start with Cindy because I did ask Cindy the question, what happened to you? There were four people in this family her husband and 2 boys. And I said, what happened? that it didn't work out.
[00:32:13] And she said that they the four of them had a contract together to work on autism. Now, my second grandson was autistic, and that they had come in just at the cutting edge of autism, just being discovered or talked about or whatever. And she said, we had an agenda to make a difference in the world of autism.
[00:32:32] And she said in large letters, but we forgot Doug. And I forgot what our agenda. She also said Ryan remembers, and she went on to say is that so many of us come down with a specific agenda. And what happens is we get distracted or we get taken in a different direction.
[00:32:48] And sometimes we'll remember late in life and sometimes we will not. And in their case is both she and her husband are gone. Now. They just didn't remember to stay connected. And my mother's case, my [00:33:00] mother, I never asked her that straight out question. I think I'll do that in the future.
[00:33:03] But basically what she was saying to me is that we had a teaching student relationship. It wasn't this warm and fuzzy relationship. It was a teacher, student relationship was very important relationship from her point of view. She also went on to say that my father whom she and divorced. when I was 12, he, we were, and my brother who is living in Washington, we were all healers.
[00:33:24] We all came in to heal and and we are doing it. But in her case, she also said that , my father, who was in the military it became so overwhelming in the military for him. He was one of the ones that had to view the Vietcong tragedies so what she was saying is we couldn't do what we wanted to do, but .
[00:33:45] My brother and myself, my brother does do that. And I feel like she it was a teaching student relationship
[00:33:51] Karen: well, I just noticed in the writing, when I read through so many of the letters, there's such a wisdom that comes through, there's such a [00:34:00] non-judgment
[00:34:00] Loanne: of you or themselves that
[00:34:03] Karen: come through and that connection to just love and they just want so much
[00:34:08] Loanne: for us to remember
[00:34:09] Karen: You can really feel that higher perspective of really how they see your relationship and the world and the purpose for why they were here. And I felt when I read it, especially about Cindy, because there is so much grief, that's still there about her passing does help you heal so much because you really can feel where she is and that she's not judging herself.
[00:34:33] She's not judging us. And that She got over to that place of like, okay, I, came here with a big purpose. I did some of it. Maybe not all of it, I got overwhelmed, but, I'm just gonna start over and do it again. And there's just something that I don't know, you feel that continuation of life, that belief that life
[00:34:48] Loanne: doesn't end, Right. And your grandmother calls where they are. The land of love. She says that that's where we are. And I think as you're saturated in that environment, it seemed to me to be, even with Cindy coming back, it [00:35:00] was a little bit it's a challenge to come to earth where there is so many vibrations that love,
[00:35:06] Robyn: that's so interesting that from both your mother and from Cindy got that universal.
[00:35:11] Amongst others, but the universal theme of love, that's what exists outside of being an earth school
[00:35:18] Loanne: really?
[00:35:18] Robyn: Right. It's actually really
[00:35:19] Loanne: reassuring. Yes, it is.
[00:35:21] Karen: And the teaching and the learning that has happened, in this story
[00:35:24] Loanne: that you share, it does show you how your
[00:35:27] Karen: mother
[00:35:28] Loanne: she was the one heralding in all of these. What seemed at the time being kind of
[00:35:33] Karen: crazy new ways of thinking about life and these
[00:35:37] Loanne: great tools, offering them up
[00:35:38] Karen: to you. You
[00:35:39] Loanne: were open enough because you had these kids who are also your
[00:35:42] Karen: teachers who inspired
[00:35:44] Loanne: you to
[00:35:44] Karen: explore and learn more. So we were part of that soul contract.
[00:35:48] You can tell, but then how you're able through
[00:35:51] Loanne: Cindy's experience because she was one of your biggest teachers of all. To be
[00:35:55] Karen: to give that back to other people so that they too could learn through, through their grief. I mean, [00:36:00] it's just such a wonderful tapestry of how
[00:36:02] Loanne: we come here with such intention and at least in this experience you can see,
[00:36:06] Karen: so clearly how we all came together with this life contract and really did do a lot of what we're intending to do,
[00:36:12] Loanne: continue to do that.
[00:36:14] Obviously you're still teaching all of us and we're still learning. When I was going through the grief of Cindy's death, I had no idea of how much grief was out there in the world, none. And now the world is just so saturated with grief in so many directions. In fact, one of the things that was a great treasure for me was starting the international grief council, and part of my part of my treasure of that experience and other people might find it the same way is that.
[00:36:40] A woman who was born in India and a woman who was born in Israel. And both of those women had lost someone very precious and written books about their grief. And as we talk together for the reasons that we were put together, we spoke the same language. We had no cultural sameness, no religious sameness, no age, our ages [00:37:00] were all different, but we realized that once we talked about grief and we talked about the healing that we were trying to find, we found that we were family.
[00:37:08] and I do feel that there are opportunities in this world through the grief to learn incredible gifts of compassion and Even faith, that there is love that there is hope. There is something that we can become better at. So grief can be a bridge to becoming even a better person.
[00:37:27] And I'm hoping that that's true for me, but I know what these ladies it fascinates me that a Hindu and a Jewish lady and a Catholic lady could come together and feel so connected because of our grief. And I know that that could be a lesson for people around the world that we're all family.
[00:37:44] Robyn: Yes. and then relate that to what you're hearing from the other side, which is love.
[00:37:49] Loanne: Exactly. Yeah. it's an interesting time to be alive and. I'm so glad you're here.
[00:37:55] Robyn: , speaking of these kinds of universal themes, one of the things that I know [00:38:00] I've heard from you and from Karen is what you've also taught about
[00:38:03] Loanne: angels.
[00:38:04] And I know we've
[00:38:05] Robyn: already spoken a bit about religion and spirituality and how to live in both worlds. Some people think of angels only in this religious realm, but that really isn't the case. Can you talk about angels and what you've taught and how people can use angels in their
[00:38:22] Loanne: everyday? Well, I think one of your questions was what's the difference between angels and spirits, right?
[00:38:27] That is one of the questions. Yeah. And I think it's an interesting question. It often comes up when you work with people who are talking to their angels, my belief is that angels have never been in human form, have never lived in a body and spirits have. And so an angel, I always think of them as like when the kids were young and the youngest one was out in the backyard, I would send out Karen, Karen, go watch over your brother, watch over and make sure he comes back in for dinner.
[00:38:52] That sort of thing. I've pictured the angels as being the angels that the good Lord gives to each soul that is born [00:39:00] as saying, stay with them and bring them home. that kind of thing, but not necessarily do we use them because I know in my religion. Angels. We're very comfortable. we learned about them a lot.
[00:39:10] we prayed to them. We asked for their guidance and so forth, but I think the angels are stuck with you even, even if you don't believe what did you guys use to stay mum?
[00:39:18] Karen: You have to ask
[00:39:18] Loanne: them for help. Exactly. And that's where I was going is that I think they would say when I was teaching the angel word, is that asking them for her?
[00:39:26] is almost like asking a friend for help. Some people find it difficult to ask for help, but when you asking for help from your angels, I think it's wonderful to watch and notice what happens. I think at certain times of your life to the angels you get more angels. So if you're going through a divorce or you're going to a health issue, or you have a crisis of some sort, I think more angels come to help you through that time.
[00:39:50] Now, the spirits that I know about, and I'm not as familiar, but I feel that the spirits are people who have who have lived in a lifetime and have something to teach you. [00:40:00] And for whatever reason, for instance, this Bishop sheen that I speak about often, I often feel his presence. I often feel him telling me to do this, that, and the other thing.
[00:40:09] And so that I would take as a spirit, someone who is offering advice and, aren't, we lucky to have. I mean, it's amazing that we have all wonderful tools around us and it would be such a waste not to use them.
[00:40:22] Robyn: I love the way that you differentiated that.
[00:40:24] Karen: So for somebody who doesn't know how to connect with their angel, is there a simple, one-on-one basic, what would you suggest to somebody who really wants to connect with their angel?
[00:40:36] Do they meditate? Is it a prayer, is there a specific
[00:40:38] Loanne: way to do it? I think depending on the person I would just ask, I would just say, I would like to know more about my angel and. Help me understand more about it. And what would happen probably is that someone will come into their life and talk about angels.
[00:40:52] A book will come into their hands or something. not an angel appearing so much, but I remember one lady in my angel workshop to me, [00:41:00] if an angel ever appeared to me I would die of fright. And I said, well, you kind of bet that is not going to have an angel appear to do that. but by asking for the help by asking for then the right way would come to you, but I think it's always just ask, as you would ask a friend, I would like to know more about you help me know more, and that would be enough for something to happen and just pay attention because sometimes they'll come right in front of you, you know, human beings can be an angel in front of you.
[00:41:29] That's right. so I think it could be fun just to explore the possibility. Mom, , what is your meditation practice? Well, my preferred ways to do it in the morning.
[00:41:38] I'm a morning person, I have a place in my house where I sit down and I have some readings that make me happy and I will do a meditation after that. I think a lot of people don't realize that there are over 250 ways to do a meditation. So you can't do it wrong, I think the idea of taking time to what I call set the sale of your boat is you take [00:42:00] time to center yourself to meditate I work my way down from the top of my head, to the tip of my toes, to just relax and be for a period of time, whatever time I can do maybe 20 minutes.
[00:42:11] And then the days that I do meditation are just better than the days I don't. I say to people when I was teaching meditation, it's best to find what works for you and then just do it. It has to be a priority and it has to come at a time that works for you.
[00:42:26] Some people do it best at night.
[00:42:27] Robyn: I also do it in the morning. I make sure to set my alarm 15 minutes earlier. And for me actually, I just lay in bed and I deal with it. And that works for me. And it really, as you said, I do it almost every single day and therefore every single day is better and it helps me also set an intention for the day.
[00:42:47] And the day is just better. And the day they don't, I find them way more. I'm just frazzled. not that they're bad. It's just that they're not as.
[00:42:56] Loanne: Yeah, not grounded.
[00:42:58] Robyn: Rooted[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] Karen: And I really got it from my mom is the way I've done.
[00:43:03] It's so funny how everybody has their own way of doing it, which I think is really the way to do it. But for me it is setting a timeframe, So I
[00:43:09] know that there's going to be a
[00:43:11] beginning, middle and end in a way, it's that connection almost that comes out of sleep. I feel like when we sleep, that's when our subconscious and our soul kind of drifts and so much comes in.
[00:43:21] So if you can really just. anchor yourself to that moment of waking up and sitting down and just allowing yourself to ground at that point in the day, you're almost continuing that
[00:43:31] experience of the dream into the day. And when
[00:43:34] you've had that time, just to kind of quiet your mind, that's when I try my little trans journaling experience, I don't necessarily ask specifically for my grandmother and my sister.
[00:43:44] I asked my guides or my higher selves to give me whatever I need to know for the day. And I literally just write whatever you do, You do that. I know you do that too. And don't, don't read it usually till the end of the day. I just put it aside and I'm always blown [00:44:00] away with. The information that comes that, loving wisdom that comes again, I know it can't be me.
[00:44:05] it's at a higher level and that always helps
[00:44:08] This has been so great. Mom. the last question I wanted to just ask
[00:44:12] so for
[00:44:13] the listeners out there who also may be in that place of grief right now, what has been your biggest lesson from grief and how did that get
[00:44:23] you to a place of gratitude?
[00:44:25] Loanne: Well, learning about the love, I think on the other side was pivotal for me too. I mean, I was brought up in an age where there was a lot of fear about the other side, and finding that the love that is coming through my mother and my daughter and talking about this enormous love has been very helpful.
[00:44:43] Plus the fact that my hope was to learn how to help other people because of my situation. And I think those people who are. Need a purpose. And very often they lose sight of their purpose is gone and I find that by working with people who are [00:45:00] in the process of growing towards survival, which is really what the starts out, when you have horrible loss is a wonderful thing.
[00:45:07] But then beyond that, and which is where I am now is that you turn around and you look and you think my goodness, I learned to be more humble because of my or I learned to be more compassionate because of my grief for I learned unconditional love is really the that's what I'm looking for.
[00:45:24] And so I'm in the process of learning that. And I think it's because of my grief as much as I would love to have Cindy back in. As Cindy had said to me that if she hadn't left, I would never have written the book. And that's true. I would never have written a book, but on top of that, I never would have learned what a grief can teach me.
[00:45:42] And at the time when there was so much grief around the world, I'm feeling that I'm not done sharing the possibilities that can come from gratitude for your grief. So that's where I'm headed. And hopefully I will find a way to get it out there. And someone just told me that I should call it earthly [00:46:00] conversations after celestial, but it's, a process and grief is a process and people, I know, you know that both of you and I, and those of you who are raw and in your grief, it is a process.
[00:46:12] It's not an event. And it takes an awful long time to find your way through the dark side. But there is. And the light is, precious and filled with love.
[00:46:21] Robyn: Oh, that's so beautiful.
[00:46:23] And we do know so many people who are really raw in their grief brief right now, for all different reasons, whether it's a parent or a child or a spouse.
[00:46:33] And when I talked to several people who I'm close with in my life are going through it right now, they really feel like they're never going to be okay again. And I think the three of us who have experienced all different levels of grief at different times in our lives, know that feeling.
[00:46:50] Know that feeling of I don't know if I'm going to be okay, but we all are. We've all survived it. And I think your point and that you can end up having gratitude for, it [00:47:00] sounds crazy to them right now. However, it really has served such a big purpose in all of our lives.
[00:47:06] And thank you for creating your first book for giving us all hope and for explaining to so many people, these ways that we can connect and get answers, guidance, and
[00:47:16] from the most precious people in our lives and who are still around
[00:47:21] Loanne: Exactly. We're not that far apart.
[00:47:23] And I think when people lose someone as I felt too, and I'm sure you did too Karen you feel that they're gone. They're there, we'll never see them again. And the possibility of not only seeing them when I'm having conversations with them, which anyone can do. And you don't need a medium for that particularly.
[00:47:38] I mean, that's a good thing sometimes, but you can do it. That's a wonderful thing to be able to know that they're right on your shoulder and if you want them, you open the portal of love and there.
[00:47:49] Robyn: Well, and I love
[00:47:50] your analogy. I'm going to go back to that. I know it was a quote from somebody else, but that idea of sometimes when you're so full of light, and then you start to let there's different levels [00:48:00] of opening the door so that you are to let that light in.
[00:48:03] Exactly. I think that you've given people so many ways to start opening it today.
[00:48:08] Loanne: Thank you,
[00:48:08] sweetheart. I appreciate that.
[00:48:10] Loanne: Can I give you one more thing, please do. I asked your grandmother, if she had anything to say, I thought you would like to
[00:48:19] Robyn: hear
[00:48:21] Loanne: I was asking her and she said, we are so proud of Karen.
[00:48:24] she has the fortitude and the courage. I never had to speak to the language of spirituality without fear. She is holding the light for so many right now, along with. She has found a way to keep the north star for those who have a thirst for spirituality would have lost their way as well as for those who are like-minded in a short time, she will be recognized along with Robin, for being so true to the light and love of our creator.
[00:48:52] And we will be cheering loudly from our special view of the outcome lovingly mother. Oh my [00:49:00] God, mom.
[00:49:01] Thank you for doing that. And we got, I thought you would like that. I would like, oh my goodness. Well, and that's how you do it. You just write what comes to it through to you and you don't censor. You don't do anything. Just write. So one more from Cindy,
[00:49:18] Robyn: you can edit this. Don't worry. Oh my
[00:49:22] Loanne: gosh. I am so proud of my sister. She saw the light as a child who wrapped her arms around it for protection and was the first to share it with others. She's is still the same joy filled with light all these years later, I couldn't be more proud. I hope she hears me applauding her work and sharing her dreams.
[00:49:42] Karen: She's my hero. Oh my God.
[00:49:44] Robyn: I
[00:49:50] Loanne: that is transpersonal journaling. I just said you got something to say. And I wrote the words that came through. They're not my words. They're not words that I actually use[00:50:00]
[00:50:00] a gift Karen, and they can hear the difference. I can definitely hear
[00:50:06] Karen: the difference.
[00:50:07] Loanne: It's worth trying. It's worth trying on your own. Oh my
[00:50:10] goodness. It's a very special gift to know that you can do that anytime, anywhere for anybody. For me, as I say, I have 15 books I did a lot of writing, but sometimes other people will slip in,
[00:50:22] but right now I stick with those two. There've been just so good to me. Wow. And I love you so much. Both of you, you are the light that needs to be shining right now. There's so much darkness and your light is so. And so helpful that I know there's truth to what I'm writing. I know that I can feel it can't you?
[00:50:40] Robyn: Oh,
[00:50:40] I'm so grateful. And just thank you for being you. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Thank you for sharing those messages. Wow.
[00:50:49] Karen: I don't even have the words, I'm so grateful for you, my grandmother or my sister, because all of you are part of my [00:51:00] birth family, my soul family.
[00:51:01] Who've taught me so much
[00:51:02] But thank you mom, because you had the courage. , despite the fact that you were doing it for your kids, you've always had the courage to follow that intuitive yearning within you.
[00:51:12] what we're doing Robin and I are doing is a result of. Because you were the one who inspired me to have whatever the dream
[00:51:21] Loanne: came from. It came from, you started with you
[00:51:24] Karen: Anybody who is interested in any of this get my mom's book. Celestial conversations, you can read it very, very quickly. And it's really a step-by-step on how you can do this yourself.
[00:51:34] And just like you said, mom, I mean, so many of our listeners are interested in, mediums and channeling and past lives. and typically you need some help to, you need an orchestrator to do that, but this is something that you can literally try yourself right now, By following the steps that we've just talked about and trying it and just seeing what comes.
[00:51:52] Loanne: We
[00:51:52] need lots of tools when they're grieving. And this is a tool which works for some people. And I think as long as you find what works for you [00:52:00] of course I love it. If the book helps you, but I also know that there are many tools out there. The secret is to keep on keeping on.
[00:52:07] I can't thank you enough for me. This is like Christmas to be able to be with you again, for me to share with people who are so knowledgeable and so aware of what's going on in the world, it's a treasure.
[00:52:18] I really, really appreciate.
[00:52:19] Karen: I'm lucky to have you, and we're lucky that we are
[00:52:22] Robyn: lucky. We are so fortunate. I'm fortunate now to have you in my life and for everything that you have instilled really in, your daughter is my soul sister. Absolutely.
[00:52:33] Loanne: does that make me your soul mother?
[00:52:34] Maybe it does. Actually,
[00:52:37] Robyn: I
[00:52:37] Loanne: do. I wanted to be sure. I had to clarify.
[00:52:40] mom, your
[00:52:41] Karen: book is celestial conversations on Amazon, your website, celestial conversations, where there's more about you. There's a meditation that you offer. My mother's voice is incredible in meditation, even though I've heard it yell at me for being late for dinner and staying out too late.
[00:52:57] hope you guys will take a moment and listen to [00:53:00] that because it's very enlightening.
[00:53:01] Loanne: Also, I noticed on Kindle light. No charge on Kindle. If people like to listen to the book, I just, notice it the other day. Cause they have to do a book signing take care of yourselves.
[00:53:09] My dear girls enjoy your role. this is a role of a lifetime enjoy. We feel